The end of in store gaming?

[Arbedark]

9 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Imho GW is significantly more hostile towards their player base when compared to the early 00s and before.

as a result this just seems 100% in line with the path GW has been on.

You might want to look up 'confirmation bias'. 

I get that you hate GW with a burning passion, but (as in the bundle pricing thread), you're completely overlooking evidence in a desperate attempt to cling onto any reason to hate GW, and honestly even as an observer it's exhausting. I can't imagine spending that much energy on a company I had such disdain for. 

To the topic at hand, I probably visit 8 new and different GW stores every year, popping in when travelling etc. and I've never experienced anything but nice sales staff, and aside from things like leaving one table for introductory games and only allowing current editions of available games (no 2nd edition 40k or Epic, for example), they've always encouraged people to play in-store. 

Despite the mythos surrounding the game store stank, and the player base in general, a busy-looking store and friendly community atmosphere is more likely to encourage new people in than a quiet store with no atmosphere - most people running these sorts if stores understand and encourage that. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

14 hours ago, Valkia the Bloody said:

I have to say, in my 25 years of hobby experience, I never experienced any GW store staff being "hostile" towards me. And I visited a lot of stores in 6 different countries so far.

The most "hostile" move that was made towards me was trying to force me into buying "Sister of Battle" stuff. As in annoyingly trying to shove it into my face.

Until I made quite clear I was a Chaos type of person and the only way a Battle Sister was going to enter my painting table was as victims of the Blood God.

Don’t mean hostile to individual players, but to the community as a whole.

removing vehicle creation rules, tightening down on what conversions they’ll allow to be played in store, etc

in general GW used to be about the game, now they put the game in the backseat in exchange for prioritizing selling models.

 

7 hours ago, Arbedark said:

You might want to look up 'confirmation bias'. 

I get that you hate GW with a burning passion, but (as in the bundle pricing thread), you're completely overlooking evidence in a desperate attempt to cling onto any reason to hate GW, and honestly even as an observer it's exhausting. I can't imagine spending that much energy on a company I had such disdain for. 

To the topic at hand, I probably visit 8 new and different GW stores every year, popping in when travelling etc. and I've never experienced anything but nice sales staff, and aside from things like leaving one table for introductory games and only allowing current editions of available games (no 2nd edition 40k or Epic, for example), they've always encouraged people to play in-store. 

Despite the mythos surrounding the game store stank, and the player base in general, a busy-looking store and friendly community atmosphere is more likely to encourage new people in than a quiet store with no atmosphere - most people running these sorts if stores understand and encourage that. 

My statement wasn’t about staff treatment of customers in store. It was about corporate/executive treatment of the entire community. See previous post

[Arbedark]

4 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

My statement wasn’t about staff treatment of customers in store. It was about corporate/executive treatment of the entire community. See previous post

So off topic and just another pointless moan then. 

[RWJP]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

My statement wasn’t about staff treatment of customers in store. It was about corporate/executive treatment of the entire community. See previous post

Or in other words, completely irrelevant to the topic of this post which is specifically about treatment of customers in store... 

We get it, you hate GW and everything they stand for/do/don't do/think about/don't think about. You don't need to tell us in every single thread on this forum.

Now, bringing things back on topic:

I have not experienced this. I was in my local GW store on Thursday just gone and during the time I was there, two players showed up to play a game, and the store manager was on the phone to another customer arranging a table booking.

[Xenith]

There's my local GW. Still open until late on Thursday for gaming. They've started promoting games on Sturday now, so they're actually hosting more gaming than before. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

11 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Imho GW is significantly more hostile towards their player base when compared to the early 00s and before.

While I'd agree that GW went through a pushy 'sales' phase around 2009-2012, where they tried to train sales people to be hobbyists as opposed to the other way round, that has definitely fell by the wayside and I don't know any of that lot still with the company. I've never experienced hostile behavior towards myself or any other player, so sorry if that's something you've experienced. I'll agree that the store experience has diminished since the advent of single man stores, however many larger stores still have multiple full time staff.

There's also the whole rose-tinted thing that was GW stores 20 years ago, and people treat adults and children differently. 

 

17 hours ago, Slave to Darkness said:

I have just seen this video about GW not allowing games in store these days

That's not actually true though is it? From a quick skim, a few adults tried to play games in store at a random time and were told they couldn't play and got bitter. Seems to be that they didn't go down on a scheduled game night, and they probably weren't the kind of people suitable to be around groups of younger adults. 

As for being bitter that "they couldn't play games in a place called Games Workshop", I wonder what would happen if they tried to play a game of 10 pin in a bowling ball factory 

I couldn't be bothered listening to the whole rant, so if anyone can correct me on any mis-assumptions/misunderstandings that would be great. 

 

17 hours ago, Slave to Darkness said:

I cant pinpoint when GW started moving away from the friendly face of the hobby, praising their stores for being welcoming 'hobby centers' tempting us in with tales and images of smiling friendly staff and happy customers stood around a table having a good old time

It was a gradual thing as you got older. 

 

17 hours ago, Slave to Darkness said:

These days GW just feels like its a case of 'buy your damn minis and piss off, but after I have tried selling you three paint sets a box of Primaris even though we know you dont collect them'.

Sorry that you've had that experince. As above, GW was like that in the early 2010's however largely moved away from the pushy sales, I think. Maybe I'm just lucky with my stores. If staff are behaving like that still, mail customer services. The last thing they want is to scare away elder millenials with disposable income.  

[SlickSamos]

Back to the original post, it looks like the classic 'End is nigh!!!' YouTube video for few clicks!  See also the MtG (twitter/youtube) community who goes through this with every single business decisions made and it's just exhausting...  (especially both WH40k and MtG are both over 30 years old now and haven't died yet)  

However, bad experiences do really really suck - regardless of, well, anything.  And if anyone has had a bad experience the most inconsiderate thing to say is 'no you didn't', followed by, 'well I've never had that experience'.  

Be kind and stay cool  (except when it's below freezing)

Slick Samos

[Khornestar]

It seems like people are offering sympathy for negative experiences, not denying them. However, the claim that this is some kind of widespread/corporate practice hasn’t been demonstrated.

[Brother Tyler]

To summarize, we have anecdotal evidence from someone claiming to have inside knowledge about a subject. I have no reason to doubt that this person has inside knowledge. As with any such information, however, bias, which is difficult to gauge, is in play. This person has presented information that should be alarming (influencers that rely on Patreon don't get support unless they provide compelling content, after all).

 

However, the preponderance of responses here would indicate that the trend this person is describing is false. For my own part, I've visited multiple GW stores in three states over the last decade and all of them have featured gaming tables, games, hobbyists painting miniatures, and events to support established hobbyists (rather than marginalizing them for the sake of recruitment). Granted, the trend described by the video's narrator may be more recent, but it is inconsistent with the GW store that I have been visiting for the last five years.

 

Some members have made some valid points about the value of in-store gaming in the marketing effort.

 

The video makes some valid points in that store employees need to be focusing their attention on the recruiting/sales aspect. That's Marketing 101. Naturally, they want any demonstrations of their game to be as attractive as possible to potential hobbyists, so discouraging the more negative stereotypes of gaming and encouraging the more positive stereotypes would be a natural part of that effort. I don't recall the video saying that the GW corporate representative indicated that stores "shouldn't" have or should "discourage" in-store gaming (I may have to listen again more closely, but I was turned off by what I perceived as dishonest intent in the narrator's tone and delivery) as a matter of corporate policy. In any event, the anecdotal evidence here would indicate either that such a policy either doesn't exist, hasn't proliferated through the company yet (unlikely given the speed of communications these days), or was misrepresented (whether intentionally or unintentionally is unknown).

 

In any event, is there any data to support what the video narrator brings up? Or are we left with the narrator's anecdotal claims, an overwhelming amount of anecdotal refutation from the community, and some axe-grinding?

[Bouargh]

Beyond the already largely debated Marketing technics, there are series of local situations that may lead to partial congelation of in-store gaming: behaviour. I personnaly assisted to some very depleasant situations were store managers were here forced to act more like a police taskforce tahn as friendly sellers supportive to the hobby. and this in stores for all kind of games (from GW to WotC...). They do not want to be involved in this as it only lead to fixing some people you do not want in your infrastructure. Sadly enough in small towns this lead to a situation where the freezing of in store gaming takes appearence of a more permanent situation because of a rotten egg.

I saw this happen in various places and it has affected to some gaming clubs too as far as I can testify.

Now I do not know if there are some generational contexts that may lead to such situations being more marked now than before or if this might eventually support a decrease in any kind of in store gaming or not.

But I do not feel like the supportive material GW is distributing is  pointing in the direction of reduccing in store gaming... 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, RWJP said:

Or in other words, completely irrelevant to the topic of this post which is specifically about treatment of customers in store... 

We get it, you hate GW and everything they stand for/do/don't do/think about/don't think about. You don't need to tell us in every single thread on this forum.

Now, bringing things back on topic:

I have not experienced this. I was in my local GW store on Thursday just gone and during the time I was there, two players showed up to play a game, and the store manager was on the phone to another customer arranging a table booking.

If stores are not allowing games in stores except for intro games it’s likely something coming down from corporate rather a few random store managers.

 

might still be a pilot program to judge how it effects sales, so no it’s not off topic. 

 

2 hours ago, Brother Tyler said:

To summarize, we have anecdotal evidence from someone claiming to have inside knowledge about a subject. I have no reason to doubt that this person has inside knowledge. As with any such information, however, bias, which is difficult to gauge, is in play. This person has presented information that should be alarming (influencers that rely on Patreon don't get support unless they provide compelling content, after all).

However, the preponderance of responses here would indicate that the trend this person is describing is false. For my own part, I've visited multiple GW stores in three states over the last decade and all of them have featured gaming tables, games, hobbyists painting miniatures, and events to support established hobbyists (rather than marginalizing them for the sake of recruitment). Granted, the trend described by the video's narrator may be more recent, but it is inconsistent with the GW store that I have been visiting for the last five years.

Some members have made some valid points about the value of in-store gaming in the marketing effort.

The video makes some valid points in that store employees need to be focusing their attention on the recruiting/sales aspect. That's Marketing 101. Naturally, they want any demonstrations of their game to be as attractive as possible to potential hobbyists, so discouraging the more negative stereotypes of gaming and encouraging the more positive stereotypes would be a natural part of that effort. I don't recall the video saying that the GW corporate representative indicated that stores "shouldn't" have or should "discourage" in-store gaming (I may have to listen again more closely, but I was turned off by what I perceived as dishonest intent in the narrator's tone and delivery) as a matter of corporate policy. In any event, the anecdotal evidence here would indicate either that such a policy either doesn't exist, hasn't proliferated through the company yet (unlikely given the speed of communications these days), or was misrepresented (whether intentionally or unintentionally is unknown).

In any event, is there any data to support what the video narrator brings up? Or are we left with the narrator's anecdotal claims, an overwhelming amount of anecdotal refutation from the community, and some axe-grinding?

It could be a pilot program which would explain why it doesn’t appear to be a widespread issue.

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

And having gone and watched the video, he clearly starts off saying that this is a policy. Corporate sets policies, all y’all trying to downplay the point by claiming staff has been nice aren’t actually listening to what’s being talked about.

later he mentions that many store managers disliked dealing with players who can’t maintain a family friendly atmosphere, maintain a certain level of dress and hygiene, which was a separate point.

so yes it seems corporate may be continuing down a road of hostility towards players while the staff remains nice and friendly and understanding.

[Khornestar]

Well, this person is saying it's a policy. That doesn't translate it into it actually being a policy. I have more than one friend who has worked as a GW employee, both managers and otherwise, and none of them agree with the story as it's being presented. Make of that what you will. None of them are current employees (most recent stopped working there about a month ago), so they feel no need to defend GW out of a sense of company loyalty and fear of repercussions.

Moreover, though we can only mostly relay anecdotal information, no one is really reporting a widespread/reproducible situation in their experience that reflects such a policy existing in the first place so... not very meaningful, in and of itself.

Can't shake the feeling of "the confirmation bias is strong in this one" vibes from your posts, frater.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Khornestar

[RWJP]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

And having gone and watched the video, he clearly starts off saying that this is a policy. Corporate sets policies, all y’all trying to downplay the point by claiming staff has been nice aren’t actually listening to what’s being talked about.

No, he's claiming that it's a policy and the people commenting in this thread are providing plenty of evidence (albeit anecodatal) that it is in fact not.

If it's a GW policy not to allow in-store gaming why, a mere three and a bit days ago, did I witness in-store gaming when I physically visited a GW store?

I have to agree with @Khornestar about the confirmation bias.

[duz_]

If there is an official announcement of this new policy, or it becomes a more common occurrence amongst Frater we can revisit this thread. 

Until then, this thread has exhausted itself and posts have become circular. 

Discussion closed.