Chaos Lords are Worthless?

[DesuVult]

At 65 points does the MoE need an invul?  He is basically a ballistic missile.  Just throw him at someone with enough warm bodies in the way so he doesn't get shot.  The chaos lord starts at 25 points more and needs to be even more expensive in order to get a 2 damage weapon with pretty mediocre non-relic options for D2.  To hit similar output and usage as the MoE the chaos lord has to take a thunder hammer putting him near double the cost of an MoE.  The invul also only matters to AP -3.

Edited October 20, 2022 by DesuVult

[Verbal Underbelly]

I haven't found Chaos Lords to be worthless in my personal gaming experience at all.  Others mileage may vary of course. I think a lot of people's problem is the lack of jump pack now. It annoyed me at first as well, given that I was part way though building one! I've since replaced his jump pack with a normal one and am almost regretting buying Harken World-claimer to base him on. 

My current Chaos Lord has ridiculous damage output and haven't been disappointed so far. 

Plasma pistol, thunder hammer, Flames of Spite, Mantle of Traitors, Emperor's Children. This is six attacks hitting on 2+ (with re-rolls) and wounding most of his targets on 2+ (with re-rolls), a chance at exploding hits and a chance of mortal wounds. Once per game he can force an opponent to fight last and can hand out his Lord of Chaos aura to my havocs across the board. Once you add psychic support with diabolic strength and delightful agonies he becomes a problem. 

He's a bit of a glass cannon and vulnerable to mortal wounds but that's the fun isn't it? Keeping my danger boi safe until he can mix it up in close combat. 

[DesuVult]

At 130 points and 2 cp why not just get a daemon prince instead so they are also a psyker?

[Kythnos]

16 minutes ago, DesuVult said:

At 130 points and 2 cp why not just get a daemon prince instead so they are also a psyker?

 

Competitively speaking, that is indeed a good question. On the other hand there have been quite a few voices from frater in this thread, who are experiencing the Chaos Lord as a worthwhile option in their games.

 

Is it the best option available? Probably no, no matter which angle you are judging the Lord from. But is he worthwhile for CSM armies? There appears to be a case for a yes, if one does not need to use the optimal solution each game.

[Verbal Underbelly]

1 hour ago, Kythnos said:

Competitively speaking, that is indeed a good question. On the other hand there have been quite a few voices from frater in this thread, who are experiencing the Chaos Lord as a worthwhile option in their games.

Yep. The original question is "is the chaos lord worthless?" and not "is it the most competitive choice?"

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I agree that the Lord is not useless but one hit against him for me is that in the new codex I don't think his reroll aura works on himself anymore as I think it only affects core units - same thing with the demon prince.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

1 hour ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

I agree that the Lord is not useless but one hit against him for me is that in the new codex I don't think his reroll aura works on himself anymore as I think it only affects core units - same thing with the demon prince.

That is true but kind of doesnt matter.  If you want your chaos lord or prince to reoll hits there are a lot of ways to get it and most of those ways offer additional bonuses.

[Verbal Underbelly]

Case in point being the Mantle of Traitors. 

[DesuVult]

7 hours ago, Kythnos said:

 

Competitively speaking, that is indeed a good question. On the other hand there have been quite a few voices from frater in this thread, who are experiencing the Chaos Lord as a worthwhile option in their games.

 

Is it the best option available? Probably no, no matter which angle you are judging the Lord from. But is he worthwhile for CSM armies? There appears to be a case for a yes, if one does not need to use the optimal solution each game.

 

6 hours ago, Verbal Underbelly said:

Yep. The original question is "is the chaos lord worthless?" and not "is it the most competitive choice?"

 

The question in the OP isn't if it is competitive but if it is worth anything stacked up against other HQs in the codex.

[TheWillTheWay]

I always wanted to take a chaos lord as emperor's children with two thunderhammers and the slaanesh daemon weapons for 6+2d3 thunderhammer attacks hitting on twos. Unbound arrogance for maximum memes or Loatsome grace for usefulness,

BONK

[DesuVult]

3 hours ago, TheWillTheWay said:

I always wanted to take a chaos lord as emperor's children with two thunderhammers and the slaanesh daemon weapons for 6+2d3 thunderhammer attacks hitting on twos. Unbound arrogance for maximum memes or Loatsome grace for usefulness,

BONK

Unfortunately this would not be legal.

[Maggotlord]

I bought a whole boxed set of Havocs just to get the Champs body for some lovely Chaos Lord kitbash. 

 

But then GW deleted the jump pack option. 

 

Now I'm waiting for the next codex...

 

That being said I regularly use a Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor with Black Mace and a combi melta to support my Helbrutes. It's okayish as part of my casual all comers list. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

If you're playing casual instead of tournaments, there should be no issue dipping into Legends and using the jump pack & bike options therein.  I'm in a Crusade that allows Legends options, so my Havoc-body lord with the old Possessed wings (aka jump pack) does pretty well.

[Snazzy]

I've been doing some tinkering with my lists of late.   As a Black Legion player, Lord of Chaos goes hand in hand with Black Crusaders.  I've been giving my Lord the Mantle of Traitors.  This allows a unit to operate without him, getting functionally 2+ to hit, rerolling 1s.  I'm not entirely sold on it, as you can't make use of the Epic Deed strat part of Mantle of Traitors.  But, a unit of Warp Talons or Raptors moving around getting the reroll 1s is helpful.  *EDIT* would Hatred Unbound qualify for Mantle of Traitors.  The wording is of both is a little ambiguous.

 

I tried combining this with his WL trait Merciless Overseer, Trophies of the Long War to give a Legionarie Champion Warp's Malice.  It works, but requires a little more finessing before i'd do it again.  Wish i could do Loyalty's Reward replacing a combi Bolter on a Legionarie Champ.  8 exploding, rerollable shots causing Mortal Wounds is a nice burst.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Snazzy
Clarification