Guard reveals

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

27 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Park it on an Objective and it is 10 T3 3+ wounds that your opponents have to chew through. They can't simply flip that Objective by charging in some Troops to tie up the Chimera.

 

Of course it is not that hard to kill a Chimera but it takes some anti-tank firepower which is then not firing at your better tanks. Force your opponents to choose between shooting the stuff that is killing them or the stuff that is scoring you points. The more difficult choices you force an opponent to make, the more likely they are to make a mistake.

I agree, but when it comes to the taurox you’re not necessarily forcing them to split that fire.

intermediate weapons of S5,6,7 with decent AP and 2+ shots and 2+ damage  will eat through a taurox quickly  while the AT focuses on your real tanks

the T6 and low wound count means most armies don’t really have a need to target it with their lascannon and melta equivalents, or use their big tank guns to reliably kill it.

some ACs, HBs, and maybe some plasma, supported by lighter weapons will likely remove it from the board pretty easy.

 

 

and while you’re not buying a transport for its guns, I just can’t help but want the most gunnage I can get for said transports. Probably won’t be targeting predators or russes with my chimera, but the footage from Ukraine if a BMP? BTR? Engaging and killing a Russian MBT, just makes me want to say just maybe…

Edited November 19, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Emperor Ming]

Five d2 hits to kill the taurox, not exactly hard these days

[sairence]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Five d2 hits to kill the taurox, not exactly hard these days

 

Exactly the same as on the Chimera, funny that. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my pillboxes. But if there's a potential place for the Taurox as well I'm not going to complain and try it out.

[jarms48]

3 hours ago, sairence said:

Exactly the same as on the Chimera, funny that. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my pillboxes. But if there's a potential place for the Taurox as well I'm not going to complain and try it out.

 

Chimera is 6, simply by now having 11 wounds. 

 

As I said before though, Taurox is good now. It is an actual choice.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, sairence said:

 

Exactly the same as on the Chimera, funny that. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my pillboxes. But if there's a potential place for the Taurox as well I'm not going to complain and try it out.

…chimera has 11W now so it takes 6 D2 shots to kill a chimera.

 

3 hours ago, jarms48 said:

 

Chimera is 6, simply by now having 11 wounds. 

 

As I said before though, Taurox is good now. It is an actual choice.

I’m sorry I don’t see the substantive difference.

 

it still Carrie’s 10 troops current codex, still T6, still M14” still had 2 autocannons, so a few point drop and a slight reduction to chip damage suddenly makes so much better?

[jarms48]

It absolutely does. It's cheaper than a Rhino, an Ork Trukk, etc. Points add up for Guard. 

[tychobi]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

…chimera has 11W now so it takes 6 D2 shots to kill a chimera.

 

I’m sorry I don’t see the substantive difference.

 

it still Carrie’s 10 troops current codex, still T6, still M14” still had 2 autocannons, so a few point drop and a slight reduction to chip damage suddenly makes so much better?

What is it to you that others see value in a unit that you do not?  Taurox is different than a Chimera.  The choice exists and there are merits to both.  M14 is really really good and for my points I would take the one that will get me where I want to go in a hurry.  I look for firepower from the heavies not the motor pool.  

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

37 minutes ago, jarms48 said:

It absolutely does. It's cheaper than a Rhino, an Ork Trukk, etc. Points add up for Guard. 

If you say so.

[Shamansky]

On 11/17/2022 at 4:23 AM, jarms48 said:

 

But you see, with mechanised you can move the chimera 12 inches or taurox 14 inches, deploy out 3 inches, get orders from an officer if they have a transport, blow something apart, then use the mount up order to get back in.  

Mount up! is a 2CP stratagem for Mechanized and Militarum Temestus Infantry, not an order.

 

If i got the idea correctly Regimental orders can be issued to PLATOON units and Sentinels are PLATOON units ,so regimental orders can be issued to Sentinels. Am i right?

[Emperor Ming]

1 hour ago, Shamansky said:

Sentinels are PLATOON units ,so regimental orders can be issued to Sentinels. Am i right?

Yes, but don't get carried away with that, sentinel's aint going to win any battles

 

Useful for certain things ofc

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Yes, but don't get carried away with that, sentinel's aint going to win any battles

 

Useful for certain things ofc

Corporal bob the sentinel pilot accepts your challenge!

[jarms48]

2 hours ago, Shamansky said:

Mount up! is a 2CP stratagem for Mechanized and Militarum Temestus Infantry, not an order.

 

I know, just wrote the wrong thing. Confused how Mount Up currently works and how it will work. If you read it again I used orders twice, which you can't obviously do. The second instance should be stratagem. 

 

2 hours ago, Shamansky said:

If i got the idea correctly Regimental orders can be issued to PLATOON units and Sentinels are PLATOON units ,so regimental orders can be issued to Sentinels. Am i right?

 

Correct. So you could give 3 armoured sentinels with plasma cannons take aim. Which is pretty nice. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Did they ever give the stats for the sentinel rocket launchers?

[Shamansky]

4 hours ago, jarms48 said:

 

I know, just wrote the wrong thing. Confused how Mount Up currently works and how it will work. If you read it again I used orders twice, which you can't obviously do. The second instance should be stratagem. 

I guess we'll have many confusion with all these changed rules with old names.

 

6 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Yes, but don't get carried away with that, sentinel's aint going to win any battles

 

Useful for certain things ofc

Honestly, I'm not carried away with this codex at all. Its' main goal is to sell new models of primaris-cadians. The rest seems like a mediocre addition to this (out of nowhere) Cadian Grandma's toy soliders.

[jarms48]

2 hours ago, Shamansky said:

Honestly, I'm not carried away with this codex at all. Its' main goal is to sell new models of primaris-cadians. The rest seems like a mediocre addition to this (out of nowhere) Cadian Grandma's toy soliders.

 

Absolutely, just look at my new winners and losers list. 4/6 winners are all new models.

 

Winners:
- Cadian Shock Troops: Just the best value troop unit we have now.
- Kasrkin: These guys are just amazing.
- Rough Riders: Not amazingly durable but their damage is fantastic.
- Sentinels: Forward deploy Scout Sentinels can win you the game. Amazingly cheap for the durability they bring. Take aim or double model count orders on plasma cannon Armoured Sentinels is pretty nice. If they come from Creed you get S9 AP-4 plasma cannons.
- Leman Russ Tanks: Mainly the Executioner and Vanquisher. Battle tank is nice, but overshadowed by the Executioner. Demolisher is nice with double model count for blast order.
- Hydra: Turret weapon, so 8 AP-2 autocannon shots hitting on 3+. This thing is just a better Castigator for far cheaper. Shreds aircraft with +2 to hit and double shots against them, so still hitting on 3+ despite aircraft having -1 to hit. Still likely the weakest unit in this list, but got some nice buffs at least.

 

I expected many of these to be nerfed. Likely the only safe ones from nerfs in this list is Shock Troops and Hydras.

 

Potential Winners:
- DKOK Death Riders: Even if it’s just keyword changes. New melee order lets them hit on 3+ which is massive, can get far better traits than the old DKOK one, and Commissar orders. Not as damaging as Rough Riders of course but far more durable. As I said though, highly depends on the keyword changes.

 

Losers:
- Catachans: Just sad, overcosted and incredibly restrictive options. By far the worst rule of the named regiment unique units.
- DKOK Guardsmen: Mini-transhuman on a T3 model is incredibly situational, most anti-infantry weapons shooting at you will be S4 and S5. Can’t take a vox if you have a plasma gun. I don’t think they’re terrible, but probably 5 points overcosted which really starts to add up for Guard.
- Pure Scions: I stress pure here, as Scions will still have a place as objective grabbers for regular Guard, but getting no regiment traits when taking them pure is rough. Especially when their datasheets in a pure army are so limited. All their "buffs" are essentially rolled into Kasrkins, the only things they really have over them is built in deepstrike and synergy with the scion WLT's. You also can't receive orders after deep strike.
- Regimental Preacher: Just far more limiting than the 8th edition one and worse than the current Sister one.
- Ratlings: Still just not a great unit. Now that the Scout Sentinel has forward deploy there's no use for them.
- FOB: Just too expensive for what you get. The lascannons are good and currently the only option really worth taking, but for a few points more you can just take a Russ with similar firepower and far better durability. The anti-infantry missiles should have been indirect.
- HWS: Got more expensive, no durability increases so no reason to take anything other than mortars still and one squad still takes up a whole HS slot.
- Taurox Prime: Could have really benefitted from turret weapon. It's the only heavy firepower Scions get. Taurox battle cannon is still terrible, Taurox gatling cannon got nerfed, Taurox missile launcher suffers from being purely a missile launcher. No 5++ really hurts them.

 

Potential Losers:
- Tech-priest: If guard keep AoC then there's really no point to bring one. 5++ means nothing if you have 2+ and AoC.

- Everything with indirect fire. Really depends if Guard lose the nLoS exemption.

- Everything else in FW that's not a DKOK rider.

Edited November 21, 2022 by jarms48

[Shamansky]

Unit of Kasrkin take 2x2 special weapons, for example, 2xHSVG+2xGL, born soldiers and Heirloom weapons than in 12-13" you get abot 19-31 shots, 30% of which with 2 starts 1 CP each can be converted into autowound and 6 auto-MW. FFFF.....For the love of the Emperor! Who wrote this?

Edit. OK let's say it is only the half of those 19-30 shots. so that still statistically leaves about 3 autowound+3 mortal wound.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Shamansky

[jimbo1701]

Things I don’t like so far:

 

Was hoping to build an artillery company when I hopped onto the guard bandwagon, but looks now like that will require 9 hs slots when before would have been 5, so CP hungry. 
I’ve  got a unit of Krieg from kill team I wanted to use and looks as if you can have 2 special weapon troopers packing any except plasma, and one who comes with plasma as standard but can switch to vox. Makes no sense looking at the design of the kit as the vox chap can have plasma or melta and another chap can also have plasma or melta. 

[Sawtooth]

I'm planning to use Scout Sentinels, is plasma the best way to go? Is the chainsaw worth it?

 

It's a shame the FOB are so expensive point wise, I really love the models.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Sawtooth said:

I'm planning to use Scout Sentinels, is plasma the best way to go? Is the chainsaw worth it?

 

It's a shame the FOB are so expensive point wise, I really love the models.

Hard to say if plasma will be the best.

best also depends on what you’re planning to do with it.

 

If you’re going w/ scout in it’s scout role I’d recommend non-blast weapons and the chainsaw because it seems pretty likely someone will charge it. This way you can either chew through a chaff charge no problem or you force the opponent to dedicate a heavy hitter to it and maybe you get some wounds in.

 

2 hours ago, jimbo1701 said:

Things I don’t like so far:

 

Was hoping to build an artillery company when I hopped onto the guard bandwagon, but looks now like that will require 9 hs slots when before would have been 5, so CP hungry. 
I’ve  got a unit of Krieg from kill team I wanted to use and looks as if you can have 2 special weapon troopers packing any except plasma, and one who comes with plasma as standard but can switch to vox. Makes no sense looking at the design of the kit as the vox chap can have plasma or melta and another chap can also have plasma or melta. 

Guess it depends on how you define an artillery company.

the PLAN have ‘fire power companies’  that include a sniper squad, ATGM squad, and 6-9 mortars.

 

so an artillery company based around that could look something like this 

 

command squad with MOO

basilisk

bombast squad

bombast squad

 

ratling squad

 

infantry squad w/ mortar x6

 

sentinel w/ rocket launcher x3 (to represent ATGM squad and to synergize with expert Bombadiers)

 

that way a regiment with 4 companies has 4 basilisks, 8 bombasts

and 24 mortars.

 

to me it seems like a lot of people want to fit artillery regiment fire power into their artillery ‘companies’

 

comparison between Chinese and US army artillery units.

 

[INKS]

yes right now plasma is the best, no the chainsaw isn't worth the points. 

[sairence]

Unless the datasheet changes, Plasma used to be limited to Armoured Sentinels.

 

I don't really ageee with that losers section. Techpriest feel great now, but I'm assuming we lose most if not all dataslate buffs. 

 

I can see the ordnance batteries being decent firesupport because I assume the can be ordered. Creed ordering a couple of them in the backfield can be decent, if they're core the banner could also be interesting to chip off wounds on key targets. A bunch of mortars can be a budget version of this, but then it needs testing whether the buffs don't get too expensive.

 

Scions still get exploding 6s, which can be pretty nice. They can also access the same MW strat Kasrkin get, so I think a bunch of cheap 10 man squads of rifles isn't terrible at all. And even with specials, the mixing is a bit bothersome but not the end of the world. Still a lot of dakka.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

17 minutes ago, sairence said:

Unless the datasheet changes, Plasma used to be limited to Armoured Sentinels.

 

I don't really ageee with that losers section. Techpriest feel great now, but I'm assuming we lose most if not all dataslate buffs. 

 

I can see the ordnance batteries being decent firesupport because I assume the can be ordered. Creed ordering a couple of them in the backfield can be decent, if they're core the banner could also be interesting to chip off wounds on key targets. A bunch of mortars can be a budget version of this, but then it needs testing whether the buffs don't get too expensive.

 

Scions still get exploding 6s, which can be pretty nice. They can also access the same MW strat Kasrkin get, so I think a bunch of cheap 10 man squads of rifles isn't terrible at all. And even with specials, the mixing is a bit bothersome but not the end of the world. Still a lot of dakka.

Unless I’m mistaken one of the reviews stated that all weapons are available to both types of sentinels.

[INKS]

This is correct. All Sentinels can take all the weapon options now. AND plasma does 1MW instead of blowing up your machine. so win win

and scouts have forward deploy

[jarms48]

4 hours ago, sairence said:

I don't really ageee with that losers section. Techpriest feel great now, but I'm assuming we lose most if not all dataslate buffs. 

 

That's why I put them in the potential loser section. If we do lose AoC then they'll be more viable. 

  

4 hours ago, sairence said:

I can see the ordnance batteries being decent firesupport because I assume the can be ordered. Creed ordering a couple of them in the backfield can be decent, if they're core the banner could also be interesting to chip off wounds on key targets. A bunch of mortars can be a budget version of this, but then it needs testing whether the buffs don't get too expensive.

 

The only one that may be useful is the Bombast one, but if Guard lose the no line-of-sight exemption it's going to basically kill all of our artillery options. Going from BS4+ to BS5+ and losing a point of AP is a massive nerf. 

  

4 hours ago, sairence said:

Scions still get exploding 6s, which can be pretty nice. They can also access the same MW strat Kasrkin get, so I think a bunch of cheap 10 man squads of rifles isn't terrible at all. And even with specials, the mixing is a bit bothersome but not the end of the world. Still a lot of dakka.

 

As I said, Scions are fine with regular Guard. Pure Scions are terrible now. 

[Emperor Ming]

Why is the chainsword not free!!!!!

 

Ah but look heres your free plasma cannon

 

Makes total sense