Shamansky Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, jarms48 said: The only one that may be useful is the Bombast one, but if Guard lose the no line-of-sight exemption it's going to basically kill all of our artillery options. Going from BS4+ to BS5+ and losing a point of AP is a massive nerf. Basy, Manty, Wyvy, Mortar and Bombast field gun have the ability "Blast. This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearier" Edit: And i may be blind, but i don't see the rule that lets ignore the penalty to hit when shooting out of LOS target Edited November 22, 2022 by Shamansky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 57 minutes ago, Shamansky said: Basy, Manty, Wyvy, Mortar and Bombast field gun have the ability "Blast. This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearier" Edit: And i may be blind, but i don't see the rule that lets ignore the penalty to hit when shooting out of LOS target Hitting back on a 4+ with the order take aim and 3+ with the sentinels and vox through the army ability. Then you could have full re-roles with Solar or re-role 1’s with Creed and +1 strength - there are was to buff them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, TCC said: Hitting back on a 4+ with the order take aim You can do that only with HWS and FOB, as 'Take aim' is Regimental order and can be issued to PLATOON units only. While Basy, Wyvy and Manty are SQUADRON and can be issued only Mechanized orders. You can give them reroll of 1s with 'Gunners kill on sight' or increase number of attacks with 'Pound them to dust' by doubling the number of models in the target unit. Also HWS is not ARTILLERY, so Expert Bombardiers has no use to the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander_Moustache Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Shamansky said: Basy, Manty, Wyvy, Mortar and Bombast field gun have the ability "Blast. This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearier" Edit: And i may be blind, but i don't see the rule that lets ignore the penalty to hit when shooting out of LOS target It's in the balance data sheet. In fact due to its location as part of the new rule itself (saying that astra millitarum is excempt from the rule) I have a strong feeling we may be keeping it. But it remains to be seen. Emperor Ming and Shamansky 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarms48 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Shamansky said: Basy, Manty, Wyvy, Mortar and Bombast field gun have the ability "Blast. This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearier" Edit: And i may be blind, but i don't see the rule that lets ignore the penalty to hit when shooting out of LOS target Dataslate. All ignore line of sight weapons get -1BS, not -1 to hit so they stack, and -1 AP. Guard have an exception to this and will likely be removed in the January dataslate. Which will make our artillery far worse. Edited November 22, 2022 by jarms48 Shamansky 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 I kind of hope they take AOC away and leave us with the line of sight upgrade. But it's not in the book and if so they could have just added it rather than rely on a data slate. Guess we'll see, probably best to play and act like the data slate doesn't exist right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 32 minutes ago, Commander_Moustache said: It's in the balance data sheet. 24 minutes ago, jarms48 said: Dataslate. Ah, i was looking only into the codex itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Shamansky said: You can do that only with HWS and FOB, as 'Take aim' is Regimental order and can be issued to PLATOON units only. While Basy, Wyvy and Manty are SQUADRON and can be issued only Mechanized orders. You can give them reroll of 1s with 'Gunners kill on sight' or increase number of attacks with 'Pound them to dust' by doubling the number of models in the target unit. Also HWS is not ARTILLERY, so Expert Bombardiers has no use to the unit. yep, when I wrote that I meant FOB but somehow managed to it actually not type it in the whole message. I feel GW have added these tweaks to make FOB the most powerful option (because they are new) and sadly I believe we will loose the dataslate ability of line of sight - which works in the FOB favor as it’s allows for the best modified BS for any none line of sight weapons as far as I’m aware. Edited November 22, 2022 by TCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 At the end of the day, we have ways to mitigate the LoS penalty. Take Aim for regimental stuff, expert bombardiers for mechanised. For both flavours there are easy ways to get reroll 1s to hit. So we'll still be able to hit on 4s, rerolling 1s. Which is no worse than it's been for the old book, WITH the indirect exception. You devoted a regimental doctrine slot when going for blast weapons before anyway, so again, that's no extra thing that's being devoted. So I really don't get the idea that it's completely worthless now, unless your expectation was to completely smash an opponent with artillery in 2 turns. Which artillery has never been designed to do, it's always been about attrition damage over multiple turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, INKS said: I kind of hope they take AOC away and leave us with the line of sight upgrade. But without aoc, we go back to the issues of our vehicles die too quickly and that's the exact reason it was added in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 If that balance dataslate will remain than we're good. Otherwise, the codex will become a primaris cadians' selling leaflet Slave to Darkness 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 I could be wrong, hopefully I am. But if they wanted us to have things like AOC then it would be in the codex wouldn't it? I am assuming we'll lose it and if I am wrong then I'll be happily wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Not sure. It's likely the Codex was already finalised when they added AoC for Guard vehicles. Not much point speculation about what might happen for us in the dataslate. We'll seewhen the next version comes out. For the time being it's best to talk to your opponent/TO whether it should apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, INKS said: I could be wrong, hopefully I am. But if they wanted us to have things like AOC then it would be in the codex wouldn't it? I am assuming we'll lose it and if I am wrong then I'll be happily wrong. We’re Not losing AOC. chaos didn’t lose it neither are we. these dataslate updates cover multiple armies and effect the external balance not just the internal balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Wish I had that confidence but chaos not losing it is a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, INKS said: Wish I had that confidence but chaos not losing it is a good point. Minor issue with that is, if they wanted it to be in the chaos space marine dex, it would have been written into it, like the squats have in their codex Shamansky 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 It could be that they aren't sure or weren't sure if it was going to stay. I guess we'll see in less than a months time what we get to keep and not keep. For now, and to each their own, I'll keep playing without the data slate. Emperor Ming 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Emperor Ming said: Minor issue with that is, if they wanted it to be in the chaos space marine dex, it would have been written into it, like the squats have in their codex Would they have? Seems like what is written in the codex isn’t very important any more. Emperor Ming and Commander_Moustache 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focslain Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 5 hours ago, Emperor Ming said: Minor issue with that is, if they wanted it to be in the chaos space marine dex, it would have been written into it, like the squats have in their codex The issue is that Void Armour (Squats AoC+) is on non-powered armoured units, in fact it's on ALL the squats units, so makes sense to include in the codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelipeFlops Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) I am of the mind that the Indirect Fire Weapon bonus for Guard will stay. The rule is a wider balance change in the Dataslate, unrelated to the codex. Unless they change their mind on what the Indirect Fire Weapons rule was meant to achieve of course, but then it will not just be a change for the Guard. However, I fully expect everything included in the Astra Militarum section to be removed/changed. Edited November 23, 2022 by FelipeFlops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Someone posted all the datasheets and rules on reddit, before they were deleted, I got a good look at them I think everyone knows pretty much everything at this point, but if anyone wants anything cleared up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallarn Commander Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 What upgrades can company command squads take? The Goonhammer and other reviews sort of gloss over this (or I just missed it). What upgrades can company command squads take? The Goonhammer and other reviews sort of gloss over this (or I just missed it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAntilles Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tallarn Commander said: What upgrades can company command squads take? The Goonhammer and other reviews sort of gloss over this (or I just missed it). What upgrades can company command squads take? The Goonhammer and other reviews sort of gloss over this (or I just missed it). Platoon Command or Cadian Command? There are two different kinds now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) Cadia is 4 vets, chainsword, medi pack, master vox and standard, load out is weird cos of box restrictions: 2 can swap out for special weapons, if you want two specials, one of the swaps has to be the banner 1 can have a bolt pistol or plasma pistol cs can be replaced by pf or ps officer can swap cs for ps or pf and las pistol can swap for pp or bp key point as well the 4 vets are no longer bs3, which should have come with points decrease really platoon again is weird all start with lasgun this time 2 can form a heavy weapons team any can swap for master vox etc any can swap for special weapon, but no duplication, so no 4 snipers 4 plasma and so on Edited November 23, 2022 by Emperor Ming Tallarn Commander 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallarn Commander Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) Thanks! Edited November 24, 2022 by Tallarn Commander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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