rules query Can anyone confirm beardy players' claims?

[9x19 Parabellum]

Hello Daemon players. I had a game with a guy that I know from work, but he lives out of town so I've never played with him before.

He played an all Slaneesh daemon army, and I've never played against them before so I had to take everything he said at face value.  Some things did not seem right though, particularly after watching some Codex reviews.  Amongst his claims were:

-His whole army has strike first (thought that was the old codex).

-Everything is -1 to him both in close combat and at range, all the time, no exceptions.

To be fair he had just gotten his codex and was new to Daemons himself, but it still seems like some of these claims are off.

Edited October 11, 2022 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Xenith]

They do seem far fetched. In my experience the best thing is to say something like "I've not played new daemons, that rule seems awesome, can you show me inthe book?"

They seem to have lost universal fight first, though it can be 'bought back' by spending warp storm points, but it's not 'always on'. The -1 to hit might be a psychic power that targets one of your units, but there's nothing that is as you describe. 

[Maggotlord]

Don't have my book with me, but -1 to hit in melee is a rule of several Slaanesh units. I don't know whether it's on all units or not. 

The -1 to hit against shooting is an army wide warpstorm effect, that is rather easy to get, but only works if the shooting unit is more than 12" away from their target. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

With the Warp storm ability, they get to roll 8 dice each turn. For every 4+, they generate a warp storm point, WSP.

 

For 4 WSP slaanesh can get:

Mesmering Dance

Use this effect at the start of the Fight phase. Until the end of the phase, each LEGIONES DAEMONICA SLAANESH unit from your army that is within Engagement Range of any enemy units can fight first that phase.

 

For 3 WSP undivided (so any of them) can get:

Descending Shadow

Use this effect at the start of your opponent’s Shooting phase. Until the end of the phase, each time a ranged attack is made against a LEGIONES DAEMONICA unit from your army, if the attacker is more than 12" away, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.

 

Some Slaanesh stuff has built in -1 to be hit, some just in melee. But daemonettes don't have anything like that built in.

 

You don't get a codex and not understand the main faction rule of the army that little. That's their faction bonus. So they would have had to roll 7 or 8 4+'s out of 8 every turn (that's an extremely low probably), and the -1 to be hit is just from shooting from 12"+ away. So even if he didn't understand the whole rolling for warp storm points and just picked 8 points worth, that's still not even correct.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Thanks Doofy. I had a feeling there was something going on.

All the relevant shooting was within 12", because I was shooting him with multimeltas on my sisters for the d6+2 damage, and 12" for double tapping blessed bolts.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Most people (and everyone I personally know) in the hobby has experience with other games, be it video games, card games like MTG or other table top games like D&D. The idea of rules and things functioning a certain way should not be new to those people. I'm sure there are some people though who have little to no experience in those other games and get into the hobby somehow, and that's a good thing. I don't think anyone should gatekeep. A brand new person might be overwhelmed and misinterpret some stuff.

 

But even that seems like a stretch. The page with the Warp storm stuff is laid out well and shows a cost associated with every ability. If you're opponent was not rolling the 8 dice a turn, that's fishy. The person you played with sounds like an intentional cheater, less so someone that miss read the rules.

[MithrilForge]

I don’t know about anyone else but when I used to play an opponent that didn’t know my army I’d show them the rules in my codex so we’re both on the same page…. I’ve never known someone to not want to show me the rules we’re discussing in their codex !! … 

unless they wanted to wipe my army because they were angry little kids that hated life 

 

M. 

[Cheex]

Playing Daemon's Advocate here: if the player had only just picked up the codex, maybe they hadn't had a chance to properly read it through and were going by half-remembered rules from what they saw elsewhere (i.e. the -1 to hit) or from what they were used to (i.e. the ability to strike first).

 

The latter is something I still find myself doing - I have to remind myself that my Khornites don't get an extra attack on the charge any more!

 

Unless the player is a compulsive liar, there's little point in breaking the rules so heavily, especially these days when rules are so readily available on certain sites and so are very easily verifiable.