Are Destroyers worth taking at all?

[Lord Krungharr]

I built a really neat looking Destroyers unit for my IW, but they're so many points for a 1 wound power armor unit.  I put a lance on the Sgt for winning challenges against other power armor guys before they strike, 3 paired volkite serpentas, 2 Toxxiferan flamers, 10 dudes.  I like the jump packs and the flamers, but I struggle with spending all those points for a unit that can't even get an Apothecary.....or can they?  They have Bitter Duty so I didn't think the Apothecary could work.  Other units can fill an anti-infantry role just as well too...like Scorpius tanks.

 

Anyone have luck with Destroyers? Maybe they're better in other Legiones besides the IVth.

[jaxom]

Destroyers are a bully unit. They work in context to the other army. For example, you have 2 toxiferran flamers. One of two things will happen: the enemy doesn't clump in response or they get a bunch of auto-hit Rend(6+). You need to have a plan for the the former. Why is it advantageous to spread the opponent out, for your army? The other factor that makes them scary to enemy units is the rad grenades. Pair destroyers with a melee unit armed with power swords, power lances, or lightning claws and watch the murder-make ensue as your strength 4 AP3 weapons proceed to wound on 3+ instead of 4+.

[Dark Legionnare]

I can't speak to the flamers so much, as I run mine with the rad-missiles, but like Jaxom said, I use them for "the threat of their special guns, a phosphex bomb from a sarge, etc..." too in my "War Crimes list".  The rad grenades as a buff just for joining in a combat can be a huge deal also like Jaxom said. Lowering marines to T3 where my reaver chain axes love 2+ to wound w/shred on top of their power swords, etc... Especially useful bringing T5 stuff down to your level. Custodes, mechanicum, etc...

 

The missiles are extra valid in 2.0 where they're one of the few AP 3 blasts that made it through the transition.

 

When they've got jump packs, use that maneuverability to hide behind things, then "surprise" jump out to lay waste if and when stuff gets close. They are fairly fragile for their points, for sure, so I always start them on the board rather than in deep-strike, both in 1.0 and 2.0.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Dark Legionnare

[Lord Krungharr]

Excellent points, good sirs, thank you!  Am I thinking reasonably: giving enemies a reason to spread out would be good if charging them since they'd be less able to get more into combat?   I'll give them a try next time I play to see how they can fit.  Trying to get more HH games lately.

[Gore Crow]

Everybody will get a pile-in move of 3” at that start of their initiative step, so it’s unlikely you’d be able to reduce incoming attacks like that. 

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

giving enemies a reason to spread out would be good if

I think the most reliable, but also so circumstantial, is terrain and movement. Most of the time you want an enemy to spread out because doing so means they limit how they can approach objectives or your forces. For example, forcing the enemy to choose between the fastest approach to an objective or melee -but having to clump up- or a longer route that lets them spread out.

 

Less reliable is forcing units to spread out and then they lose out on benefiting from an aura or some similar thing.

[Xenith]

On 10/25/2022 at 6:17 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

3 paired volkite serpentas

 

No wonder the unit is so expensive! I think serpentas on there are a trap, especially on a unit that wants to charge in and finish stuff off. My destroyers have always been the stars of the show - poisoned AP3 rad punished people for clumping, and Rad grenades and shred on the chainswords means you get a lot of wounds through. Power maces will then wound and ID stuff on a 2+.  

[SlickSamos]

4 hours ago, Xenith said:

Power maces will then wound and ID stuff on a 2+.  

Does this mean no FnP rolls too?

 

One thing I don't think has been brought up yet is that they look like a decent stand in for a Veteran Assault Squad for legions that don't have an equivalent (IW, WS, SW, IF, IH, DG, TS*, Sal** & AL***) which is half of them... 

 

* Pavoni not withstanding 

** Depending on how loyal you are 

*** Depending on what you've stolen 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

It may be an edge case, but if you ARE playing Salamanders and NOT taking any of the (many) salamander options that prevent you from taking destroyers, giving them the two hand flamers could be preeetttyyy nasty?

Obviously it won't do much to anything heavy, but if you can get the drop on someone and bathe them in 20 flamer templates, then be right in their grill for return firing and/or wall of death-ing? Seems like a scary unit.

[Dark Legionnare]

12 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

No wonder the unit is so expensive! I think serpentas on there are a trap, especially on a unit that wants to charge in and finish stuff off. My destroyers have always been the stars of the show - poisoned AP3 rad punished people for clumping, and Rad grenades and shred on the chainswords means you get a lot of wounds through. Power maces will then wound and ID stuff on a 2+.  

7 hours ago, SlickSamos said:

Does this mean no FnP rolls too?

 

Truth, yes! Corrected and clarified down below.

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Dark Legionnare

[Gore Crow]

Rad grenades do affect ID and so will negate FNP. 

[Bung]

5 hours ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

It may be an edge case, but if you ARE playing Salamanders and NOT taking any of the (many) salamander options that prevent you from taking destroyers, giving them the two hand flamers could be preeetttyyy nasty?

Obviously it won't do much to anything heavy, but if you can get the drop on someone and bathe them in 20 flamer templates, then be right in their grill for return firing and/or wall of death-ing? Seems like a scary unit.

 

Salamander Destroyers can be nasty, their free special hand flamers on Destroyers means Wounnding on 3s with Rad Grenades and 2d6 Wall of Flame attacks per model.

[Marshal Mittens]

Point for point, they are not as good as other options. But they look cool, and taking them won't lose you most games. So I say bring them! 

[Cactus]

I just noticed they can also have melta bombs at a flat 25pts for the whole squad which seems like a good deal for 10 models with jump packs.

 

For World Eaters it's worth noting they can all have chainaxes at no extra cost.  A 10 man unit charges with 51 attacks wounding T4 on a 2+ with shred reroll. A nearby biomancer could push them all to S6...

[Dark Legionnare]

2 hours ago, Gore Crow said:

Rad grenades do affect ID and so will negate FNP. 

You are correct!

 

I'm not sure what I had in my head that I was misremembering thst explicitly didn't affect ID thresholds. But yes to all above then!  Buddy sent me a picture of the book page and I came here to edit my post. Thanks!

[Brother Sutek]

They are a favorite unit of mine, they might be costly but they do work if used properly. 

[Galron]

Small teams of 5 as support for other units or 10 man support? Trying to figure out how to include them in my DA to support an assault squad and/or Firewing Cabal(the three man jump pack assassination squad). I have 10 available but even at 3k I am really short on points.

[Dark Legionnare]

10 hours ago, Galron said:

Small teams of 5 as support for other units or 10 man support? Trying to figure out how to include them in my DA to support an assault squad and/or Firewing Cabal(the three man jump pack assassination squad). I have 10 available but even at 3k I am really short on points.

Usually the Elites slot is either crowded as hell, or wide open. Depends mostly on that.

In wide open games, I like to run two five-mans. Get to split shots of the missile, get to apply rad grenades to two different targets, or double your chances of rolling a successful charge if near each other.

In most though, it's usually one unit of 5. In "War crimes" list, it's one big unit of 10 to make room for separate phosphex rapiers so they can target different units from one another.

[Brother Kraskor]

I guess the main attraction is the Rad grenades for making your S6 weapons instant death. Could combo well with eg. massed power axes and a Biomancer. Death Guard can achieve this without even taking Destroyers of course!

[Bung]

On 10/28/2022 at 9:46 PM, Cactus said:

I just noticed they can also have melta bombs at a flat 25pts for the whole squad which seems like a good deal for 10 models with jump packs.

 

For World Eaters it's worth noting they can all have chainaxes at no extra cost.  A 10 man unit charges with 51 attacks wounding T4 on a 2+ with shred reroll. A nearby biomancer could push them all to S6...

 

The cheap Melta Bombs should be usefull against Dreads. 

Rad Grenades B´bring them down to T6 and Armourbane of the Melta Bombs gives them rerolls to wound aganst Dreads.

[Lord Krungharr]

Yes yes, I am liking the small skirmish squad ideas.  Keep them real cheap, toss in a flamer or missile launcher, melta bombs if points are available.  

 

True that Elite slots are always competing for space, but with certain RoW like FotA or PotL that helps free up those particular slots to some extent.  And a cheap allied detachment could help offset that as well if the RoW doesn't prohibit allies or not using a RoW at all.

[Lord Krungharr]

I've decided to switch my Destroyers and Tactical Marines from my IW to become a Salamanders allied detachment.  I've got enough flamers to shorten into hand flamers....and then have 5 double hand flamer guys, 2 Toxiferran flamers in there, plus 3 power mace/bolt pistol guys.  Haven't painted green before, should be pretty next to black Raven Guard or Iron Hands.  With the Raven Guard, their Warlord Traits will work for the Salamanders too since they're best budsdies.

 

 

[Wolf Lord Loki]

What are peoples thoughts on giving Thousand sons 2 asphix bolt pistols 

 

Shortens the range but adds shred 

 

Also which Archana would you add to them? Speed? Hammer of wrath? Precision?

Edited June 12, 2023 by Wolf Lord Loki
Later thoughts

[Xenith]

Precision if they're on foot with disintegrators, hammer or wrath or movement if they're wearing jump packs! 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Late to this party.

There's some really interesting and spicey combos for Raven Guard with Destroyers. I really like Toxiferran Flamers on 2 boys, (Especially for ZM) followed by a mace or power sword on the sergeant, since Raven Guard's Jump pack marines get to re-roll 1s to wound on the turn they charge. This means that Power Swords are wounding on 3s, re-rolling 1s with a chance to rend, or take the mace to stop FnP rolls with Instant Death that wound on 2s re-rolling 1s. All depends on what you're hunting, the absurd amount of WS 5 in the game leaves a lot to be desired, and it stinks they can't have a chaplain attached to them, but my Jump pack heavy list has been really fun to have 10 of them doing work.