Black Templars: Current Status in the Meta - October 2022

[Medjugorje]

 

I was shocked to see their predictions and expectations. Honestly I am with them except (maybe a 4 on primary). So as  in this video:

 

 

All of them have the same problems as I have with the codex. Our BT can play the mission but cannot kill and our rules dont work often as they should.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Sword Brother Adelard

[Blade of Sigismund]

If the army isn't working out for you, and by that i mean you just dont enjoy playing it, I'd give it until the next points balance (they didn't really change anything with the rules one)

 

After that, you've been pretty negative about the army since launch. It might just be time to pick another faction. I don't see GW reorienting the way you seem to want them to as fast assault is the specialty of both white scars and blood angels.

 

If you're looking for units that deal good damage, I could suggest a couple things that have done great work for me.

[Prot]

9 hours ago, Blade of Sigismund said:

If the army isn't working out for you, and by that i mean you just dont enjoy playing it, I'd give it until the next points balance (they didn't really change anything with the rules one)

 

After that, you've been pretty negative about the army since launch. It might just be time to pick another faction. I don't see GW reorienting the way you seem to want them to as fast assault is the specialty of both white scars and blood angels.

 

If you're looking for units that deal good damage, I could suggest a couple things that have done great work for me.

 

I agree. After a while the negativity just becomes repetitive. 

 

If your time is spent just repetitively regurgitating the negativities surrounding your hobby, it can wear on you, and the people around you. 

 

I think at this point no one, and I mean not a single person who plays this game even semi regularly is going to say 'marines are in a good place' right now. The horse is dead, the beatings have to stop at some point.

 

We also know these things are incredibly cyclical. If it is difficult for you to find positives in the army, take a break from it. The negatives are incredibly obvious right now, and I don't k need a youtube 'expert' to tell me so. What I like to do is find the positive and work through it. Enjoy the other aspects, the hobby work, the fiction (Helbrecht the novel is out now.)

 

Greenfield is someone that does a good job of digging in the dirt and finding success with the army. Those are good gems to share. 

[Medjugorje]

Maybe Its my fault that it is just negative here - but I want to know how you play your armies right now. 

Do you play more narrative or straight with the current strength.

I mean I find it really funny that since CoB is strong - the output in melee is not really an advantage anymore. 

 

[Blade of Sigismund]

I have two main list variants that I use depending on how I feel that day. The first is a black tide list using a ton of crusaders and Grimaldus. The second is a mechanized assault list using Helbrecht, Sword Brethren, and Bladeguard.

 

The tide list uses crusaders with grimaldus buffs to control objectives backed up by an apothecary to bring bodies/relics back as needed. It tends to work better against armies with less high s shooting and that rely on weaker units for board control (Tyranids, Guard, some Necrons and Chaos).

 

The mechanized assault list uses massed las and melta fire turns 1-2 to weaken key elements of the opponents force, then does a counter charge on the remaining elements. Vehicles hang out on objectives while the elite infantry move up the table. This tends to work better on more elite forces as the firepower is more decisive. Vehicles can hide out of line of site and prevent small arms damage on the infantry until they are ready to engage.

 

Both list variants use 1-2 Gladiator Valiants with sponson multi-melta as fire support, and a 10 man unit of terminators that deep strike in with a Canticle of Hate terminator chaplain. The terminators (Relic with Chainfist and Stormbolter) are given the Seal of Sigismund. This unit will pick the biggest threat on the field and usually delete it in one round from deep strike reserve. They are usually enough of a threat to keep the opponent from effectively competing in the mid-field. The mid-field fire support and targeted assault from these units set the conditions for both lists to win.

 

Good win rates on both, but mech assault tends to do better.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I use to do the terminator bomb but was afraid it’d eventually get boring, so I changed up my list. One thing for sure they never once failed a charge.

[Blade of Sigismund]

It sounds like it would get boring, but somehow never does.

 

Maximum purge!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I play Adeptus Titanicus almost exclusively. 

 

Its like 40k, but it's also fun.

[Medjugorje]

Did anyone of you played against CoB?

[Blade of Sigismund]

Not going to lie, I don't know what that acronym means

[Medjugorje]

Creations of Bile. 

 

Its the best faction in codex Chaos Space Marines because they have "fight on death" and because they are stronger then us in melee you have to shoot them or just steal objectives. 

And thats the part we can do better then any other Marine subfaction

[Blade of Sigismund]

I looked through the goonhammer. Basically it's CSM with S5 and a advance + charge strat. Probably some good play but it doesn't fundamentally change the counter tactics aside from screening from early charges.

[Medjugorje]

We have to play a total different game against them. We have to try to screen and save our most important shooting and try to get objective markers with "strenght of conviction" and devout push. If wecharge them then we will die faster then they will die.

[Blade of Sigismund]

None of that sounds terrible, but I think it would be easier to just shoot them. Same defensive stats as normal CSM.

 

Do you usually run dedicated fire support or go all choppy all the time?

[Medjugorje]

I dont have a list which I play constantly. I played a few different types which all are not ready for tournament success so I let them go.

But most of them have at least a bit shooting in it. The more shooty that list was, the more success I had.

The only list i am not sure for now is PSB in Impulsor based because I didnt played against our good players - against all of our fungamers it was like

going threw butter with hot knife. 

 

So its the list I expect much point drops.

[Blade of Sigismund]

I run at least 2 dedicated fire units and one heavy assault unit in every build. It gives me options to counter the enemy main units while the rest of my army focuses on objectives, clearing, and table control.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I watched the VT video… it’s not like those guys are winning multiple GTs. Obviously they don’t play the faction much.

[Medjugorje]

But I think they are mostly correct. I think you are going to disagree to their points on our dmg output, rules and primary game.

 

Honestly on Primary I would say with SoC and Devout push + large crusader squads we should have a 4 instead of a 3. Therefore I disagree on their standpoint.

 

The Rules like our CT is okay and our Vows are inferior to Superdoctrines (at least we are clearly better then IF, RG, maybe better then UM and IH).

But nothing significant we can relay on. In terms of Relic bearers I would clearly deny of what they thought - they have huge potential... We have clearly the best Marine Relics.

But the worst WL Traits.

 

Each other Marine has more damage output. We just have shotguns +1 dmg strat, exploding 6s for PSB and the litanies for Mortal wounds and +1 attack. We have 2 weapon relics (which are normally on most codex books weak but for us its close to a must take). relic bearers one fight last + mortal wounds and one MW and one flamer. Thats it.

I would say that all other marines have way better output stratagem support. Here is the point I think they absolute correct.

 

 

 

 

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

My local group mostly plays Crusade, no named characters, and between 25 and 50 PL. We have good and bad players but few try hard or tournament minded people. However, one of our better players runs DG, which are ridiculously efficient at that army size, and so I have a lot of experience fighting outgunned.

 

Here are my thoughts, rambling and in no particular order:

 

I hate Tanhouser's bones. It's a very strong relic, but as an ability it should have been put on the EC, his points should have been boosted to around 120, and we shouldn't be able to build bike or terminator characters with it.

 

The EC himself is fragile and only moderately killy. He can absolutely explode non tough characters, bounces off of the actual tough ones, and mostly gets used to take on units like plague marines who have no invuln and -1 damage reduction. If a serious fighter gets first swing he'll probably turn into red mist.

 

Our strats kind of lack punch. Mortals on death was a ton better when it was mortals on 6 to save. Things being split between Primaris and not is a giant pain the ass for both transports and strats, to the point that my group has ruled that the SB strat works on All Veteran units as well, but not Terminators.

 

My Ironclad Dread has been an enormous help. Assault launchers are a game changer, double flamers are good, and the dread chainfist is nuts.

 

Really that's about it. I wish I could setup non named chaplains in BT armies to have some followers like a Dark Apostle. Wish the Primaris split would go away, and that my Chaplains were a little more killy or more survivable without relic help. But my local win rate is 3 in every 5 or so, even if DG tends to table me.

[Medjugorje]

Very interesting. Did your group change a lot of rules?

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

No. The only rules that we've changed for my BT are that the EC can still ride in normal marine transports, and that the SB strat works on vets. Other than that, I believe that the Dark Aeldar player has some change where they're ignoring one of the sets of changes, I don't recall which, and that's about it.

 

There was some debate around letting the Ork player do a WAAAGH with his Big Mek leader instead of having to take a warboss, but he wound up taking one anyway so we dropped the conversation. That's the extent of our homebrew.

[Medjugorje]

Do you have problems against some armies? no matter which player controls the models?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t, but obviously some factions are more challenging.

Here are my rankings for Black Templars…

 

Primary Objective Holding - 4
Secondary Objectives - 3 (there are plenty of good secondaries available to our faction based upon both the mission and the opponent)
Killing Power - 4 (this is based upon playing all five turns; we are very good at grinding down opponents over the course of a game)
Rules - 3

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Medjugorje]

Killing power compare to every other codex is very very weak. 

 

I think we will have big problems against LoV. I am not sure if we really struggle against Necrons. 

Lot of people said that Necrons runs over Marines but I dont think so. I think Harlekins are a big problem.

And of course Sisters of battle and Drukhari are our nightmares as long as they are played well.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’ve never lost to Drukhari going back to before any nerfs. I’m not sure what they (VT) mean by killing power - seems ambiguous to me. If you table an opponent how can that not be good killing power? Seems like their definition is rather one dimensional.  LoV don’t want to be in melee plus their basic units have a 4+ armor save, even with AoC (void armor) it’s not very good. Necrons you have to play aggressive against and beat them on primaries.

Edited October 31, 2022 by BLACK BLΠFLY