Black Templars: Current Status in the Meta - October 2022

[Medjugorje]

You have to kill necrons in general because their secoundaries are too strong. 

 

I mean all in from Turn 1

Edited November 1, 2022 by Medjugorje

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

A lot of people feel that secondaries are inherently unfair since some factions have much easier ones to score such as Necrons.

[Blade of Sigismund]

It can usually be overcome, but it does make you feel a certain type of way when your secondary requires you to overwhelm the opponent, and they rack up more points by having 5 guys hang out in the back field. 

 

At that point it becomes a time trial mission, ie how fast can you kill them.

 

But thats why I prefer tempest. Everyone has the same objectives, no one gets 30-40 pts just for showing up.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’ve never played Tempest but only heard good things, and yes the point you made is quite enticing. In regards to Necrons I don’t begrudge them knowing they were once considered one of the worst factions.

[Blade of Sigismund]

Over a long enough timeline everyone goes through up and down phases. 

 

The question isn't about begrudging players, the issue is balancing forces that have similar constraints but completely different objectives.

 

By definition, if any objective is easier or harder than any other that is restricted to a faction, that means there is now a handicap. I fail to see how introducing a handicap based on faction furthers the intent of a balanced game model, unless you stop trying to keep forces balanced and simply modify the handicap until the outcomes are roughly equivalent. That may achieve the result of a standardized curve, but it's hardly fun to play. 

 

Tempest is simple. Two identical decks, draw three cards from the deck. Those are your current objectives.

 

 

[Medjugorje]

5 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

You have to kill necrons in general because their secoundaries are too strong. 

against Necrons you can take the new improved secoundary which gets 4 VP for each marker taken from the enemy or our own.

you can take No Prisoners most of the times and the Space Marine one which gives you 1VP for being in the middle of the map, 1 VP for not fell back or failing moral check....

 

as vow i could imagine accept any challenge because you WANT to kill them as fast as possible

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Some armies are much harder matchups, but I'm also playing a very different game than most. 500 to 1,000 point crusade doesn't play anything like 1,500 to 2,000 Matched. There are fewer resources, secondaries don't count toward VP, and you start with more WT and Relics active while not having to spend your CP on them. 

 

The most active factions in my Crusade group are Myself as the only Marine player, 1 Ork player, 1 Dark Aeldar, 1 DG, 1 Sisters, 1 Guard, and 1 AM. We have on and off Tau and Nids. No active Necrons at the moment. Most of us have multiple armies, and will bring in other things from time to time just to give the others a challenge, but the above is the usual spread of things.

 

Of the above group, for me personally the hardest challenge is Aeldar and DG. At 25 PL especially DG are horrificly efficient. Plague Marines are good at high points, but at low point matches they are a really big presence. I'm the only player who's managed to wipe the squad of 7 in our current campaign, and even then only once. Arming them as mostly melee troups and then spamming the 1 CP grenade strat every turn something is in range makes their already great efficiency even more wild, and has won that player at least a couple of games. Even with him paying for a Rhino to put them in they always make their points back.

 

As for Dark Aeldar, their troups that can only be wounded on 4+ have proven to be hard to shift, and their boats are great for cost. I've had good luck running an Ironclad as defense, as if the player gets too aggressive with his boats I can usually catch one and kill it, and it helps to keep them chased off of objectives.

 

All that said, these games are very much fun games, not tournament games. My BT army has a Vindicator in it called The Hatred Of God, and it's not even using the new CSM statline. If we were to pump things up to 1,500 point games and play more competetively I'd probably be able to win on objectives often enough but I'd get tabled a lot. The army doesn't feel very punchy to me outside of some specific exceptions, and most of the really big value comes from the named characters I don't use.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Can someone please say something controversial?  The forum just isn't the same reading people's Crusade progress and stuff.  (I mean, good job y'all, but I want some hot takes and spicy opinions to talk about.).

 

I watched Kale Greenfield's interview with Implausible Nature and I'm inspired to modify my army to a similar concept as his, so to that end I'm modifying 20 assault intercessors to be assault marines. I got some dope jump packs off etsy and swapping out the heavy bolt pistols. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Sword Brother Adelard]

There's not really much to say these days is there?

[9x19 Parabellum]

Well that makes me sad.

 

So I played a game vs. 1k sons last friday.  Pretty decent player.  His was actually mixed list: Ahriman, Infernal Sorc in Term Armor, +1 HQ, 3x5 Rubrics, 1x10 SOT, 1x5 SOT, 3 Chaos Knights (Wardogs sized). 

 

My list was: Helbrecht, MoS Chap on foot, 1x10 Intercessors (ABR), 1x20 PCS (chsw, +4 PF, + Light Emp's Grace), 1x5 Infil, 1x10 Assault Intercessors, 2 Judiciars, Chief Apothecary, 1x5 BGV with Icon, 1x4 Erads (MM), 1x5 Hellblasters (API).

 

I walloped him.

The reason I mention this list is because of the psychological effect of my 2 judiciars (which I have never run 2 of before).  He didn't want to fight anywhere, and his shooting was not great (at least not in comparison to my Hellblasters and Eradicators.  I had one judiciar with the PCS that pushed the center, and one judiciar with my BGV/Assault Intercessors that pushed right to deal with his melee knights.  Most people do not have 3+ good melee units in their army, and rarer still would be (if they did) for all 3 melee units to be in charging position on a turn against matchups that they actually like.

 

So I'm curious about people's thoughts on 2 Judiciars.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Something controversial …

 

The Emperor’s Champion hates furries.

 

On another note here’s a review from Art of War:

 

 

They seem to thinks it’s a competitive supplement.

Edited November 23, 2022 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Prot]

5 hours ago, 9x19 Parabellum said:

Well that makes me sad.

 

So I played a game vs. 1k sons last friday.  Pretty decent player.  His was actually mixed list: Ahriman, Infernal Sorc in Term Armor, +1 HQ, 3x5 Rubrics, 1x10 SOT, 1x5 SOT, 3 Chaos Knights (Wardogs sized). 

 

My list was: Helbrecht, MoS Chap on foot, 1x10 Intercessors (ABR), 1x20 PCS (chsw, +4 PF, + Light Emp's Grace), 1x5 Infil, 1x10 Assault Intercessors, 2 Judiciars, Chief Apothecary, 1x5 BGV with Icon, 1x4 Erads (MM), 1x5 Hellblasters (API).

 

I walloped him.

The reason I mention this list is because of the psychological effect of my 2 judiciars (which I have never run 2 of before).  He didn't want to fight anywhere, and his shooting was not great (at least not in comparison to my Hellblasters and Eradicators.  I had one judiciar with the PCS that pushed the center, and one judiciar with my BGV/Assault Intercessors that pushed right to deal with his melee knights.  Most people do not have 3+ good melee units in their army, and rarer still would be (if they did) for all 3 melee units to be in charging position on a turn against matchups that they actually like.

 

So I'm curious about people's thoughts on 2 Judiciars.

 

That's a pretty good Thousand Sons list. I've used Thousand Sons a lot in the past and I do feel they are better against elite armies. What Vow did you go with?

 

What I note is I don't think the Wardogs are good for him. There's just not enough models in the army to make it work imho. It's a 'good' list, but I think better served with much more bodies.

 

That being said, the fact you danced around, with no transports and faced an army with plenty of AP-2 anti infantry, AND a lot of mortal wound output says a lot for your playing this match up. (Was obscurring terrain fairly plentiful?)

Good job though, that's a solid opponent.

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I feel that we have some distinct advantages versus kSons.

[9x19 Parabellum]

8 hours ago, Prot said:

 

That's a pretty good Thousand Sons list. I've used Thousand Sons a lot in the past and I do feel they are better against elite armies. What Vow did you go with?

 

What I note is I don't think the Wardogs are good for him. There's just not enough models in the army to make it work imho. It's a 'good' list, but I think better served with much more bodies.

 

That being said, the fact you danced around, with no transports and faced an army with plenty of AP-2 anti infantry, AND a lot of mortal wound output says a lot for your playing this match up. (Was obscurring terrain fairly plentiful?)

Good job though, that's a solid opponent.

 

 

Hey Prot. I went with Abhor the Witch.  I really like that 3" move and it tends to catch people off guard as the only vow opponents are really familiar with is Uphold and sometimes Accept.  The reroll 1's to wound against pretty much everything in the 1ksons codex is gravy and it synergizes nicely with not taking a Lieutenant.

 

Obscuring terrain was decent. This is a photo of the table that we played on (this is not OUR game, however; this photo was taken the day after for our annual Tanksgiving tournament):

 

 

He played too aggressive and came walking right up to me.  I was on him turn 1 and my PCS went in and did what they do. I went for the jugular; his 10 man SOT squad, and cut 6 out right off the bat.  He had -1 to hit psychic power on them so I gave my PCS the 1 CP Heretic Astartes reroll strat.  Chaplain buffed them with Littany of Divine Prot and Remorseless Persecution and I broke his back turn 1.  My  BGV stalled out his Wardogs with Transhuman, and Strenght of conviction + the backup assault intercessors took that objective from his Knights.   Plasma Hellblasters perfectly sniped out Rubric's with Helbrecht's Chap Master rerolls. 

 

 

5 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I feel that we have some distinct advantages versus kSons.

 

100% agree with this, Black.

Mortal Wound protection, plus our Strat, plus our ability to get in on opponents quickly (in this case, Abhor the Witch + Devout Push) is really great for going up against 1k Sons.

[Medjugorje]

10 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I feel that we have some distinct advantages versus kSons.

before the Chaos Daemons codex: YES

now: hmmm....

 

But we dont have to wait all too long until the stupid flamers get nerfed

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Landspeeders are a good counter to Flamers.

[Medjugorje]

interesting. Just to tag them?

 

Or to pass overwatch for another unit? 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To tag them… T6 is perfect too.