Blood Angels Zone Mortalis - getting to 1000 points

[LameBeard]

Here’s what I have painted (nearly):

• Cataphractii Centurion: 115 pts
• Veteran squad (5) with heavy bolter, chainswords 170 pts
• Tactical squad (10), 130 or 175 if those extra blades count as chainswords

 

Here’s what I have parts to make:

• Cataphractii command (4) 185 pts+25 for Delegatus unlock
• Recon squad (5) with shotguns 105
• Tactical support (5) with flamers, chainswords 120 pts

 

I have not listed all upgrades, but have included an allowance in the points for how the sergeants are equipped for WYSIWYG. There is some flexibility there.

 

I feel I could squeeze in one more unit, especially if I drop the command squad back to 3. What would you do here? I can guess a couple of things you’ll say, but let me listen first.

 

 

[Cleon]

It really depends what your Cataphracts will be armed with, right now I don't see an answer to a dread (and it's quite likely you'd meet a Contemptor or Castra Ferrum in 1K ZM.

Personally I'd feel a lot more comfortable if that support squad was meltaguns (unless your Sgts are covered in inferno pistols and fists/hammers).

Also That veteran squad is a lot of points to not carry much AP, if you can scrape together a few more bodies and give them some power weapon guys too it makes them a lot scarier.

[Cleon]

For Comparison, my WIP 1K EC ZM.

• Cataphractii Centurion (Calth guy combi melta and Chainfist)
• 5 Man Cataphract squad, with sgt Thunderhammer, guy with Chainfist and toting a Plasma Blaster
• Contemptor Dread, gravis Melta and Melta fist
• 10 tacs with bayonets, vexallia and Power spear Sgt
• 10 tacs with mixed bayonets, vexallia and power fist and plasma pistol Sgt
• 7 man volkite Charger and Chainsword support squad (again with fist

And I'm still worried that if I meet another legions combat elites or a Leviathan I can't stop them and I'm effectively prepared to trade my Dread for theirs to protect my dudes. (The Cataphracts can in a pinch take on a dread, but they'd take a beating doing it).

Edited October 29, 2022 by Cleon
Formatting

[LameBeard]

Yes I think anti-dread is the priority. I have no thunder hammers or inferno pistols as yet, the odd power fist and chainfist only.

 

I can see the attraction of making it a melta support squad. I just have so many flamers lying around! Would squad-wide melta bombs on the recon or vets be worth it?

 

I can squeeze in a power sword or two on the vets. I might even have an axe hiding somewhere in the bits box I might be able to find.

 

I’ll try and write up the upgrades later - I can see that will help people work out what each squad’s job is. One thing hampering me is that the terminators have mixed weapons. They are the old resin models so I don’t want to mix in plastic.

[LameBeard]

Here's the list in more detail, some minor changes/corrections/new mistakes:

 

• Cataphractii Delegatus with Combi-melta and chainfist (135)
• 10-man tactical squad with vexilla, additional hand weapons*, sergeant has artificer armour and powersword (166)
• 5-man veteran squad with 2 x chainsword, 2 x powerweapon, heavy bolter, sergeant has artificer armour, powerfist and hand-flamer (176)
• 5-man recon squad with shotguns, sergeant has combiflamer and chainsword, augury scanner? (105)
• 5-man flamer support squad, chainswords, sergeant has artificer armour (120)
• 4-man cataphractii command squad, powerfist, 2x paired lightning claws, grenade harness (195)

so far just shy of 900?

 

I want a list that is decent, but don't need any exploits or niche tactics that will overwhelm an unprepared opponent. I think that can be a fun way to play if you have a regular opponent, where you each try things out, work out counter-measures and counter-counter-measures, but I am not likely to play games that frequently.  So something a bit more basic is fine. The theme is important, as is WYSIWYG. I also want to streamline game play,+ so avoiding too many different weapons in one squad, and too much mixed armour. So I'm willing to sacrifice the artificer armour to free up points.

 

Why is the recon squad there? (1) I have done a shotgun conversion I like, and would like to do a few more (2) Recon have 'Line' (3) Having a W1, WS4, Troops squad feels like I am not trying too hard.  But now under Heresy 2.0, veterans can have shotguns, so I could think about beefing up the veterans instead of running a recon squad.

 

Why is the flamer squad there? (1) I have many flamers in the bits box (2) Feels like it fits the theme and gets a slight buff in ZM. (3) Also feels like not-trying too hard.

I like the look and theme of Destroyers - I was thinking of painting the support squad as if they were Destroyers. But maybe I should just run mortalis destroyers with a 1-in-5 flamer instead.

 

I just don't want the list to be all elites/hq except for one token tactical squad. It just feels greedy. Cleon's list above is much classier: 3 Troops > 2 elites > 1 HQ

 

*MKIV marines come with swords. Not bayonets. Not chainswords. I think we might houserule they can do this at +4 points per legionary.

[LameBeard]

My son claims he needs the Cataphractii for his Word Bearers. And I have made some progress with some models. So here's my revised list (963):

• Cataphractii Centurion with combi-melta and chainfist (110)
• 10-man tactical squad: vexilla, sergeant has artificer armour and powersword (count backpack blades as bayonets after all - 139)
• 5-man recon with shotguns, meltabombs, sergeant has hand flamer and chainsword (112)
• 5-man veteran, 3 x chainswords, 1 x bayonet, heavy bolter, sergeant has artificer armour, powerfist (167)
• 5-man recon, chainswords, sergeant has plasma pistol (95)
• 5-man mortalis destroyers, toxiferran flamer, sergeant has artificer armour, power maul and phosphex bomb (145)
• 5-man Indomitus Terminators, heavy flamer, 1 x thunder hammer and storm shield (195)

I have all the models except the Indomitus. The HQ and tacticals are painted, the veterans and recon shotguns nearly. The chainsword recons are being built - the idea would be to make them Despoilers instead, once I scrounge a few more models.  The idea of the Indomitus is that they are a classic Space Hulk configuration, a bit of a nod to that.

 

So I was thinking, is it worth upgrading the Centurion to some kind of Consul or even Praetor, or is that over the top at 1000? I'll try to dig out a power weapon for the last veteran who's not built, maybe I can swap the plasma pistol for another hand flamer if I need to scrounge a few points.  Or if I have spare points, is a nuncio vox or augury scanner any use in Zone Mortalis?

[suxdavide]

I'd rather skip the 5man squads, but it's up to you :)

[Cleon]

Are you playing the full 'new' rules for ZM (I think from the Cthonia book?) with the points system to bring things in from reserves or just deploying at 1000 points?

 

I haven't got my head round the deploy points and its implications yet, but from what I understand it disincentivises smaller squads.

 

My ZM list above ended up getting completely wrecked by Iron hands reacting with a 15 man Bolter squad that broke my tacticals and took the character away with them and breachers who used their legion trait of subtracting 1 from my shooting strength to soak up the Volkites then counter strike, so it's back to the drawing board for the EC to better leverage their Legion trait.

[LameBeard]

Thanks both. The main reason for 5-man squads is I just never seem to have the discipline to model and paint a 10-man squad!

 

But I was also wondering about whether in narrow corridors large squads can be too unwieldy? I could roll the shotguns into the veterans and it would be legal. I could try to be disciplined and not build destroyers but get that despoiler squad. 
 

I am just playing with White Dwarf rules for now but with half an eye on getting Siege of Cthonia (mixed reviews on this forum!). I hear Elites are punished compared to troops which is why I thought the Indomitus Terminators might fare well.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I have played a lot of the Cthonia ZM and I really like it. I know people have opinions about it, but I think most of the extrapolating people did when it first came out was a bit cynical.

Small squads have the same advantages and disadvantages more or less as a regular sized game: if you have more squads, that is more objectives you claim at once, and smaller squads are easier to hide (particularly when you can scoot them around corners as a shooting reaction). However they die easier and may give up points for that, and some powers/weapons are better in bulk than in smaller numbers.

Elites cost more deployment points to get on the board, but are often worth it in order to threaten things.

I find the back and forth of the list building and the choosing of what to deploy when and where to be really fun and engaging in the new system.

As for your list: I know nothing about Blood Angels but the lists you are working with all seem like fun!