How to play CSM vs Votanns?

[Cpt.Danjou]

A couple of weeks has gone by now since the Stunty codex came out, how are you thoughts about playing against them? I really have no idea how to have a fun match against them, So far I have had two small points matches. The first one I held out till round 5, but lost with something like 20-60, the second one was over round 2. What I learned was that, don't let the dwarfs see you, and don't let them get the chance to shoot. Don't take secondaries that needs an action like "raise the flag", deny them as many chances as possible to hand out judgement tokens.

I am thinking jump troops, like raptors and warp talons will help, and a Daemon prince as HQ. Any other thoughts?

 

Cpt Danjou

[Kaiju Soze]

Not sure I'd recommend warp talons as they won't get the wound re-rolls.

[MasterDeath]

Big ol breaker does not really work, so leave the Terminator brick at home. Possessed msu should work, especially as CoB.

With the new model range, some D2 shooting will be necessary to take out berserks.

And finally expect Land Fortress spam

[Kaiju Soze]

Given the basic infantry is only 1W, MSU Legionaries with Balefire tomes for throwing around Smite and Infernal Gaze seems like an obvious first step.

[TheWillTheWay]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:08 AM, MasterDeath said:

Big ol breaker does not really work, so leave the Terminator brick at home. Possessed msu should work, especially as CoB.

With the new model range, some D2 shooting will be necessary to take out berserks.

And finally expect Land Fortress spam

I think Terminator bricks will still work well if you play them right. Judgement tokens are scary for the bricks, but you can position the brick to minimize the gain of judgement tokens. Instead of using the terminators to control a midfield objective, you can purposefully avoid it and bumrush the dwarf heavy hitters to minimize the early gain of judgement tokens. This is obviously something the EC specialize in, but you can just make them slaanesh terminators to give them access to advance and charge. Grab some midfield cover if you can't make it all the way on turn 1 to give them the best save possible; even their magna rails will be saving on a 4+ and with CP reroll you should be fine. Try your best to keep them out of sight of the kahl, or otherwise force the opponent to expose to kahl to judge them.

If you keep your judgement tokens low on the first turn, give the terminators all their defensive buffs, you should have no trouble weathering a turn of fire then rushing in and taking out some high value targets, especially in competitive terrain setups with lots of breachable terrain. 

[tychobi]

 Votan dish the damage but are pretty thin on the ground, their defences are strong but they don't get a lot of wounds to play with. All out assault.  So kinda like how we should be doing it anyway.  We are never gonna win a gun fight vs Votan.  We will win in an ax duel.  To bring the hurt to bear I would focus on speed.  Get in there losses be damned

[Toldavf]

Killing the Kharls will reduce their JT output to a manageable level it will still suck but it wont be as bad. Beware their bikes, your setup cant be aggressive vs bike heavy Votann if they get turn one you will have 18 bikes in your face before you can react 18 str 7 -1 D2 , 18 str 5 -1 D1 and 18 str 6 -2 D1 shots you can swap a shotgun for the grenade is you like and in Ymir all of these shots will have +1 ap for being up close. Basically its real important that you are out of LOS turn one. 

 

Beware Berserks they are almost always going to kill what they fight in melee, they like COB fight on death you can trade with them but be prepared to die on the swing back. The best option against them is probably mortal wound (yeah they have a 5+ save bu MW are still good) bale flamers and moral. At only LD 8 a night lord army with daemon allies can make the LD near unpassable can get them to 6+ CA tests trivially this will hurt them badly. 

Character wise nothing they have stands up to either of our tap tier character builds, offensively the votann stuff is nasty defensively its not tough enough to take what we can dish out.

In general you have to use the limited numbers the Votann bring against them, since their points nerf that's a ton easier, having a unit or 2 of deamons is helpful Nurglings are worth their weight in gold vs the bikes and their will suffer from having units dumped in their lines. 

Oh try and get the Grymnir early he will battery them allot of cp which will suck for you.