What year did GW change the size scale of models?

[hd3]

Per title

[LameBeard]

Every year

 

Seriously, that’s why it’s called “scale creep”. 
 

With few exceptions, the models have been getting bigger since the start of the game more than 35 years ago.

 

Maybe you are thinking specifically about the move to primaris? Or the jump of marines from 25mm to 32mm bases? But there are many other examples.

[Halandaar]

MKVI Space Marine (2022) is bigger than a 7th Edition Deathwatch Marine (2016), which is bigger than a 6th Edition Tactical Marine (2012), which was bigger than a 3rd Edition Tactical Marine (1998), which was bigger than a 2nd Edition Tactical marine (1993), which was bigger than an RTB01 Marine (1987).

 

You may need to be more specific.

[hd3]

9 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

MKVI Space Marine (2022) is bigger than a 7th Edition Deathwatch Marine (2016), which is bigger than a 6th Edition Tactical Marine (2012), which was bigger than a 3rd Edition Tactical Marine (1998), which was bigger than a 2nd Edition Tactical marine (1993), which was bigger than an RTB01 Marine (1987).

 

You may need to be more specific.

 

Ok, I bought the start collecting chaos space marine set which is I believe circa 2019 because it had the master of possession and venomcrawler for my alpha legion list but now im worried the models will be smaller than the current generation of chaos space marines which will comprise the rest of my chaos army. Ideally I'd like things to be the same proportions

[Magos Takatus]

Here's also three different sizes for the Avatar of Khaine for Aeldari scale creep. (Ignore the 4th model on the right, that's a model from the smaller scale Epic 40,000 (Or Space Marine? I don't remember really).

 

Apologies for not having the plastic one added to the family yet. I am but a mere mortal with a big pile of shame. 

[Halandaar]

2 minutes ago, hd3 said:

Ok, I bought the start collecting chaos space marine set which is I believe circa 2019 because it had the master of possession and venomcrawler for my alpha legion list but now im worried the models will be smaller than the current generation of chaos space marines which will comprise the rest of my chaos army. Ideally I'd like things to be the same proportions

 

You'll have no issues at all - the Chaos Marines from the start collecting set are exactly the same scale as the standalone Chaos Marines, probably were even designed at the same time. I've got the SC! Marines mixed into multipart squads and you can't tell the difference at all.

[hd3]

tremendous, thank you so much! now i can start building the alpha legion in peace!

[jaxom]

Jes Goodwin said in an interview that the Adeptus Mechanicus development was the beginning of re-conceptualizing the scale. Skitarii were chosen to be the established baseline for a human-size, human-proportioned model.

[Karhedron]

Wulfen were designed around the same time as the new Skitarii and I believe they were designed with the scale of the new Primaris Marines in mind. Given the timeframes, that would certainly support the claim.

[LameBeard]

6 hours ago, jaxom said:

Jes Goodwin said in an interview that the Adeptus Mechanicus development was the beginning of re-conceptualizing the scale. Skitarii were chosen to be the established baseline for a human-size, human-proportioned model.

Are skitarii on 25mm bases or did they go to 28mm?

[jaxom]

3 minutes ago, LameBeard said:

Are skitarii on 25mm bases or did they go to 28mm?

25 mm. Off the top of my head, I can't remember if 25 mm and the 28 mm are the same height. I know the 32 mm bases are taller than 28 mm.

[LameBeard]

Thanks. I think the diameter is as important as the height. Once the designers get given more width they use it to design taller models!

[Closet Skeleton]

2 hours ago, LameBeard said:

Thanks. I think the diameter is as important as the height. Once the designers get given more width they use it to design taller models!

When everyone was on 25mm it was common to have the feet poking over the edge, this isn't the case on any 32mm marine. Most space marines designed for 25mm look good on 32s.

 

10 hours ago, hd3 said:

tremendous, thank you so much! now i can start building the alpha legion in peace!

 

Raptors and and Dark Vengeance Chosen are smaller than the current regular marines. Only the raptors and bikers are still of the old scale and on sale.

[Doghouse]

I think the 54mm game Inquisitor was probably one of the early influences, especially when it comes to the scale of an Astartes compared to a human. 

 

[jaxom]

6 hours ago, Doghouse said:

I think the 54mm game Inquisitor was probably one of the early influences, especially when it comes to the scale of an Astartes compared to a human. 

 

GW has released some great models over the years, but nothing since has come close the jaw dropping awe when I first saw Artemis next to Covenant and Tyrus.

[Magos Takatus]

10 hours ago, jaxom said:

GW has released some great models over the years, but nothing since has come close the jaw dropping awe when I first saw Artemis next to Covenant and Tyrus.

I apologise for going a bit off the rails here but I found trying to convert models for Inquisitor to be difficult due to the larger scale. Just imagine how amazing it could be nowadays if they released it when it's relatively easy to get access to a 3d printer to make whatever you need. The game might have been a lot more successful. 

 

I never did get a complete assembled Captain Artemis so I never really got to appreciate that. He must have towered over them though.

[WARMASTER_]

2017 was the jump to 30mm scale really for 40K at least with the Primaris and Death Guard ranges, since then scaling has been loads better in terms of human releases and Marines 

[Xenith]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:11 AM, Halandaar said:

MKVI Space Marine (2022) is bigger than a 7th Edition Deathwatch Marine (2016), which is bigger than a 6th Edition Tactical Marine (2012), which is smaller than a 4th edition Space Wolf Grey Hunter (2009), which was bigger than a 3rd Edition Tactical Marine (1998), which was bigger than a 2nd Edition Tactical marine (1993), which was bigger than an RTB01 Marine (1987).

 

You may need to be more specific.

 

Just thought I'd add this in for completeness - the Space Wolves Pack made marines taller by repositioning the legs, so while the same size they actually stood a little taller, which was amazing, then was reversed for the ~2012 release of the recut tactical squad, which was basically a 1:1 update of the 1998 plastic sprue with no new posing. 

 

23 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

Just imagine how amazing it could be nowadays if they released it when it's relatively easy to get access to a 3d printer to make whatever you need. The game might have been a lot more successful. 

 

The game would be a lot less successful if people just pirated all the parts for it. GW already cut it as people needed the book them maybe 2-3 models max and that was it. 

[Halandaar]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:10 AM, Magos Takatus said:

Just imagine how amazing it could be nowadays if they released it when it's relatively easy to get access to a 3d printer to make whatever you need. The game might have been a lot more successful. 

 

30 minutes ago, Xenith said:

The game would be a lot less successful if people just pirated all the parts for it. GW already cut it as people needed the book them maybe 2-3 models max and that was it. 

 

I think you'd potentially both be right - more successful in terms of the number of people playing it, less successful in terms of how much money GW make from it.

 

As far as I understand it, Mordheim still has a non-insignificant following thanks in large part to the ease of obtaining the individual weapons to equip your warband and stuff through 3d printing, rather than having to shell out ~£18 on a direct-only Freeguild Crossbowmen kit from GW to get the same part.

[Magos Takatus]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

The game would be a lot less successful if people just pirated all the parts for it. GW already cut it as people needed the book them maybe 2-3 models max and that was it. 

Hmm. I hadn't considered the issue of piracy, I was more considering that there were numerous opportunities for GW to release weapon packs or some fairly generic arms for the purpose of converting miniatures, and while they did release some I thought there was a missed opportunity there. I wanted to build my own characters but apart from turning the model for https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hieronomus_Tezla into a servitor there wasn't a lot I could do without substantial use of green stuff. I can fix gaps but I haven't yet learned how to create new parts from scratch. I feel nowadays being able to pick up a 3d sculpting package and make some basic parts and then print them to be a viable alternative for some or instead find other like-minded people who have done the same and ask for their help.

 

I suppose people could use the technology to pirate 54mm miniatures but if they were going to do that they are probably already pirating 40k miniatures now. For example I can point to sites like Ironwolf Minis and Taromodelmaker. They do not pirate Imperial Knight models but they supply a large number of aftermarket parts that make customising or theming an Imperial (or Chaos/renegade) Knight model a lot easier to the typical modeller.

[Warden-Paints]

I think if Inquisitor makes a come back it would be at 28mm scale, given the following that Inq28 already has. I don't know anyone who actually played the original version. 

[Magos Takatus]

Yeah, Inq28 is pretty popular from what I see. The amount of detail they can cram into 28mm figures these days probably make a 54mm skirmish game pretty redundant anyway. Besides, that would be more excuse to buy GW terrain rather than have to make 54mm terrain out of cereal packets or whatever people did the first time round. 

[Xenith]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:43 AM, Magos Takatus said:

Hmm. I hadn't considered the issue of piracy,

 

On 11/20/2022 at 10:10 AM, Magos Takatus said:

it's relatively easy to get access to a 3d printer to make whatever you need

 

 

Though maybe we have different interpretations of it.

 

The way forward would be Inq28 - I've said for a while that they're basically prepping us for it - Gruss, Damien, Artemis and Eisenhorn models are already in the wild and in 28mm as well as death cult assassins. Like you say, with all the 28mm scenery it would be an easy win - I remember playing with Playmobil scenery when it came out, which is weirdly the perfect scale. It was fun to have shootouts in an old wild west town 

[Magos Takatus]

19 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

 

 

Though maybe we have different interpretations of it.

 

The way forward would be Inq28 - I've said for a while that they're basically prepping us for it - Gruss, Damien, Artemis and Eisenhorn models are already in the wild and in 28mm as well as death cult assassins. Like you say, with all the 28mm scenery it would be an easy win - I remember playing with Playmobil scenery when it came out, which is weirdly the perfect scale. It was fun to have shootouts in an old wild west town 

I suppose your mileage may vary for access to a 3d printer, last time I checked one of the local libraries has a basic 3d printer available to the public for a small fee. I was given my printer as a gift so I'm not expecting everyone to go out and buy them but it may still be possible to find access to one, I admit that "relatively easy" was probably an exaggeration in hindsight.  

 

My Interest is piqued about the list of 40k models in the wild, I know of Young Eisenhorn and Artemis being available and I did spot Damien's number tag in the Arco Flagellant kit but Delphan Gruss? Have they just put in the lore than he's promoted himself to Magos Dominus so he uses a standard 40k model now? I'd love to have a model of Gruss and his nasty-looking breacher arm if it's available. If it hasn't been done yet I'd be tempted to convert him using part of the drill that comes with the Killa Kan kit. I think cutting the drill in half and keeping the tip might just work. Admech characters are probably some of the best to convert, since one day when they arise from their recharging cycle they might spontaneously decide to graft some construction/demolition equipment to themselves or even stick a weapon there instead.  

[Xenith]

10 minutes ago, Magos Takatus said:

Delphan Gruss?

 

Ok, so it's not exactly him, but near as you can get: Bionic arm, same head (if you can image him takins his hood down/identical to the artwork) and shot selector autopistol. 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Xenith