Our relic bearer buffs should apply to the whole squad, not just the one model.

[The Emperors Champion22]

My main reason for this is the chaos space marine codex. their icons and relics apply to the whole squad, and cost as much or less than our relic bearer buffs. for example, i can take the icon of slaanesh on every single one of my chaos squads/ characters that can take it, for 15 points per unit/ character. this gives the unit/character fights first, and +1WS. 

 

we can take the icon of heinmann, crux obsidian, or the holy orb for the same cost. now each of these can only be taken once, and only apply to one model, or in the holy orbs case, can only be used once. this seems kind of bull:cuss: to me, nevermind the fact that basic legionaries have the exact same statline as sword brethren/ veterans and are 3 ppm cheaper. 

 

i know that complaining can be very annoying and draining to engage in but i just needed to vent and was wondering if anyone else felt the same way. 

 

TLDR; chaos space marines get better stuff for less and its annoying.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I agree. Hope Games Workshop corrects this soon.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t necessarily feel the same way. Still happy we got our own codex and a host of new models.

[Medjugorje]

I think a few of them need point drops or should be stronger.

 

there are a few we often see like Crux Obsidian, Icon of Heinman and Holy Orb. (but should drop to 10 points)

Another few are sometimes seen as Fist of Balthus (should drop to 5 points)

and the rest is just bad. 

 

Seal of Sigismund could give reroll 1s for hit and wound rerolls against each oppontent in addition to reroll everything against one chosen unit (you will never face if your opponent can play the game). 

 

Beastspyre is a point filler but too expenive for 10 points - should be a 5 point drop

 

Bones is far too expensive too - should drop to 5 points

 

Light of the emperors grace is the worst of them all. It should allow your unit to deny a psychic power or should have a -4 or something (not just -1)#

 

 

In general: Even it would be far overpowered it would make fun to casualplayers and do not hurt anyone because its just one model. If everything would work for a whole squad it would be just broken. I mean a whole swquad with -1 dmg for 6 eradicators for example while i dont think icon of heinman would be broken. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Medjugorje

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The new rules for Black Templars obviously are not overpowered. It’s why we have not been nerfed. Try to be appreciative for the little things. It can make all the difference and no we don’t need fly terminators like Blood Angels.

[Medjugorje]

even fly terminators do not have a good winrate. I would like to see all other codex books nerfed. But this will never happen so we need buffs. And of them are necessary and others would be fine. 

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

That, or the squads themselves get brought up a bit. I agree there needs to be a change, but I'm not too fussed on what that change is. Personally I'd really like to see:

 

All chaplains get 1 deny base like Grimaldus.

All chaplains can take servators that act like the dark Apostle's followers, which is just a lesser version of Grimaldus and his gang.

Tanhouser's bones gets removed and folded into the EC similar to the LoV's named character.

EC doesn't take up an HQ slot.

Relics and WT get a slight tune up.

Strats get a tune up, reverting some back to Psychic Awakening.

 

Other than that, SM in general should get brought in line with CSM stat wise and everyone should be happy. I don't think we need a ton of dramatic changes. Just that little nudge to make us less reliant on special characters and a little more punchy/dynamic.

[The Emperors Champion22]

23 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

The new rules for Black Templars obviously are not overpowered. It’s why we have not been nerfed. Try to be appreciative for the little things. It can make all the difference and no we don’t need fly terminators like Blood Angels.

i mean im not ungrateful for what we've gotten, but its a little hard seeing the chaos space marines get more stuff that is more powerful for a cheaper cost.

[Medjugorje]

I hope GW will address the relic bearers in the next point update.

 

@BLACK BLŒ FLY - i dont need an OP codex but at the same time all other codex are OP and even when GW try to balance then they dont realize what is too strong and that there are even more broken things the competitve scene did not use because their previous strenght.  And at the same time I dont like much of the changes from Index to Supplment makes me angry about GW twice.

 

I am really interested how much a new codex will change. It could determinate all of my problems now ( too less punching power and no adv+charge ) or let us stay where we are while other chapters will be overthrow us. My biggest hopes are just 2 things: Advance + Charge stratagem in the codex and reroll hitrollls as chapter tactic.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Medjugorje

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I actually like our chapter tactic. Reroll advances/charges and 5++ vs mortals has done good work for me, and since armor of contempt came out I've used accept any challenge and abhor the witch a lot as vows. The extra pip of AP from always being in assault on top of getting the extra attack all the time has let me do more damage in melee than you'd expect, and an extra 3 inches on my Ironclad turn 1 has let me crack important units on my first turn.

 

More than anything I just want to see strats and chaplains get a glow up, as I still don't feel our chaplains make up for lack of psychers. That little blip of mortal wounds and buffs is vital for some chapters. Having to devote relics and build space toward making our chaplain get more than a single prayer on 3+, and having our one deny tied to a WT, is really rough. I've been playing Khorne Daemons again lately and just having a couple squads of dogs on the table on top of the deny strat makes such a huge difference on edging out that advantage.

[Medjugorje]

Ulthwé has 4 rules why dont we ? Reroll advance rolls is nothing special and everyone can do it per strat - reroll charges is better but saves just a few CP, is better for an assault army which charges with mulitple units in one round while other armies have so much fight last, fight first and the 2CP interrupt stratagem. 5+++ is well. 

 

But as my example Ulthew has that 5+++ too in addition to many other good abilities. 

 

The other thing would be a improvement to our Vows:

 

- aac (current rules + reroll hits)

- abhor (current rules + 4+++ in psychic phase)

- suffer (change the passion to -1 to hit in shooting if its not the closest opponent)

 

 

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

You have a point. But I'd like to nudge us away from looking at things non SM/CSM armies have as much as possible. Like, comparing SM to Aeldari gets complicated because ideally their statlines for most units should be a lot worse. You can afford to have a few less toys if you stay on the table longer and have a little more punch.

 

WB is a better comparison, and I agree that we lack a bit in a side by side. I'm not as sold on reroll hits as you've always been, in fact I hate it as an army wide rule, but if you compare them to BT we don't hit as hard or hold ground quite as well, not to mention they get access to both priests and psychers, and their priests are better.

 

But ah well. We'll be grumpy about it until the fix comes, then probably grumpy still. I'm personally waiting for the point when my LGS crew gets sick of buying new editions and we pick one and homebrew it into something good. Waiting on GW to do something right is a losing game, as it seems they'll do one rule perfect in a book, make a mess of the next rule 3 pages later, then in the next book take an identical rule to the perfect one and cock it up for no apparent reason. It's crazy.

[The Emperors Champion22]

7 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

Ulthwé has 4 rules why dont we ? Reroll advance rolls is nothing special and everyone can do it per strat - reroll charges is better but saves just a few CP, is better for an assault army which charges with mulitple units in one round while other armies have so much fight last, fight first and the 2CP interrupt stratagem. 5+++ is well. 

 

But as my example Ulthew has that 5+++ too in addition to many other good abilities. 

 

The other thing would be a improvement to our Vows:

 

- aac (current rules + reroll hits)

- abhor (current rules + 4+++ in psychic phase)

- suffer (change the passion to -1 to hit in shooting if its not the closest opponent)

 

 

for some reason gw really doesnt like giving space marines all the fun rules and toys that other factions get, and if they do its a majorly toned down/ nerfed version. i think they just dont like space marines.

[Medjugorje]

1 hour ago, The Emperors Champion22 said:

for some reason gw really doesnt like giving space marines all the fun rules and toys that other factions get, and if they do its a majorly toned down/ nerfed version. i think they just dont like space marines.

I think they have a whole different view on this. They dont playtesting very competitive and armies which are specialiced are way better then other armies. And that armies used to each Aeldari faction, Tau, sometimes Nids, sometimes Grey Knights because they are psykers... and thats why they are more often on top levels then other armies which are more elite and pay too much points for things that does not matter in many situations but GW will calculate its costs still on all their abilites-  even the unimportant ones and in addition the "specialiced" factions are really good in their task. So we have the problem in the core game design.

[The Emperors Champion22]

3 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

I think they have a whole different view on this. They dont playtesting very competitive and armies which are specialiced are way better then other armies. And that armies used to each Aeldari faction, Tau, sometimes Nids, sometimes Grey Knights because they are psykers... and thats why they are more often on top levels then other armies which are more elite and pay too much points for things that does not matter in many situations but GW will calculate its costs still on all their abilites-  even the unimportant ones and in addition the "specialiced" factions are really good in their task. So we have the problem in the core game design.

i think they just need to playtest each new codex vs the space marines and whatever other army is part of the launch boxes codexs whenever they make a new codex, that way they dont power creep the game out of control since youre always comparing each codex vs the baselines for the edition.

[Medjugorje]

What I heared is that LoV was playtested just against PRE-Nerf Harlequins and PRE-Nerf Tyranids and it was okay. But that seems a bit weird when Harlekins just the minor faction in the Aeldari Book and Aeldari were not tested although they are not close to Pre Nerf Harlekins.... not even close.