New Exemplary Battles Campaign Pack - Salamanders versus Alpha Legion

[Etruscan]

Out of the blue Warhammer Community released the next Exemplary Battle units with the Salamanders and Alpha Legion. What are people's thoughts on the units?

 

While I enjoyed reading the lore I am a little disappointed that the Salamanders got yet another flamer-based unit. I really feel an assault squad of sorts would have filled a niche for them.

[SlickSamos]

Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/11/22/horus-heresy-exemplary-battles-scorch-the-heads-of-the-hydra-with-faith-and-flame/

 

The Alpha Legion one looks like a cool take on a Shotgun equiped Headhunter squad.  Really neat.

 

Salamanders one is fine but would rather take Vets or something.  But in ZM or similar will be amazing!  

[Misterduch]

for 240 pt for 10, the adherents are pretty good I think.  A veteran squad with the same configuration would cost you 265 points with worse flamers amd leadership on the sgt but native WS5 and an extra attack on the sgt, not to mention the special rule and the troop slot

Edited November 22, 2022 by Misterduch

[SlickSamos]

That's a fair point.  Upon further reflection if I instead view them as a tactical Squad and flamer support Squad smushed together they are worthwhile.  Hmm and I have some combi-flamer kit bashed marines in green lying around...  Oh gosh not another army! 

[Misterduch]

43 minutes ago, SlickSamos said:

That's a fair point.  Upon further reflection if I instead view them as a tactical Squad and flamer support Squad smushed together they are worthwhile.  Hmm and I have some combi-flamer kit bashed marines in green lying around...  Oh gosh not another army! 

 

Honestly, I was expecting WAAAAYYYY less for salamanders so I am happy with them. Somewhat niche but they work well enough.

 

I will have to find some decent stl for combi flamers tough first

[arnesh88]

Agreed on Salamanders unit, I was also expecting way less. While I'm not in love with them, I might build up a squad with spare parts I have lying around, though I'll wait until the resin heads and shoulders are revealed. Looks a bit goofy with the MKIII shoulder but the rest of the model is MKVI. Ultimately a flexible anti-infantry unit, except vs terminators. As I mentioned on another post, I like them making the unit explore the religious zealotry they adopted since the Drop Site Massacre.

Edited November 22, 2022 by arnesh88

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I am very stoked about both of these. The shred/breaching combo is pretty awesome on the shotguns, plus the -1 to the enemy LD from the wail helps with the concussive. Follow that up by stabbing them with knives immediately afterwards and you've got a pretty mean little unit. The salamander unit trades that punch for sheer volume of dice. If those dudes are in flamer range, they're also in double-tapping bolter range, and that's a lot of potential hits. Then they are relentless and can charge right in and get to work with all those attacks and hopefully a higher WS. Combine with a chaplain and they're a pretty damn fun unit. 
Both of these will be awesome in small games and Zone Mortalis.

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I've gushed in a couple places about the adherents, but I really really like them.

 

As @Misterduch already mentioned here, they're basically cheaper (I think combi and chainswords actually run up to 275), non-compulsory, vets. They have conditional WS 5 and fnp, but always higher leadership.

 

They can do the same thing pyros do (stand and eat a charge), or they can actually go on the offensive without feeling like you're wasting output. They don't crowd the elite slot, have synergy with the IWND part of the trait, and can be flexed into pride or covenant due to being troops. 10 of them can actually beat tartaros after being charged, conditional on the power. 

 

Just a very solid unit.

[Slips]

The Effrit being in elites make them a tougher sell but the ability to turn off Nuncios and Augury Scanners for one unit is probably worth the price of admission. The nuncio part, especially during Night Fight, makes it basically a -2LD penalty which can be pretty clutch to guarantee a pin on a given unit.

 

Their shotguns are neat. Dont think youd want to give this unit Nemesis Bolters though. Flat +25 to give the whole unit Daggers, regardless of size, is pretty good when they all have 2A base, 3 on the Sarge, Daggers are no longer specialist (so +1A for having a pistol) and you manage to get a charge off (41? attacks on a charge?)

 

Though, 250 for a full unit, 275 with daggers feels rather expensive. But, at least theyre Skirmish and have Scout/Infiltrate baseline making their 12" effective range a bit easier to manage.

[Cadmus Tyro]

37 minutes ago, Slips said:

The Effrit being in elites make them a tougher sell but the ability to turn off Nuncios and Augury Scanners for one unit is probably worth the price of admission. The nuncio part, especially during Night Fight, makes it basically a -2LD penalty which can be pretty clutch to guarantee a pin on a given unit.

 

Their shotguns are neat. Dont think youd want to give this unit Nemesis Bolters though. Flat +25 to give the whole unit Daggers, regardless of size, is pretty good when they all have 2A base, 3 on the Sarge, Daggers are no longer specialist (so +1A for having a pistol) and you manage to get a charge off (41? attacks on a charge?)

 

Though, 250 for a full unit, 275 with daggers feels rather expensive. But, at least theyre Skirmish and have Scout/Infiltrate baseline making their 12" effective range a bit easier to manage.

Being in the Elite slot might be quite useful, at least for my list building. Recon company and headhunter leviathanal both have limitations either in vehicles or “heavy” units. I’ve found this makes me rely more on my fast attack slots for infantry support, elites isn’t particularly contested. 
 

They look like an interesting unit to trial, just in the middle of painting a shotgun recon squad in Effrit colours….

 

Cadmus 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Cadmus Tyro

[Astartes Consul]

Yeah these both feel like nice fluffy units that a) have a niche and b) actually work in that niche.

 

Nice to see the article essentially announce that there will be more exemplary battles in the future. Though is it cynical of me to be quite salty about the 'sorry about the delay we were working on some very secret things!' bit? 

[Misterduch]

10 hours ago, Astartes Consul said:

Yeah these both feel like nice fluffy units that a) have a niche and b) actually work in that niche.

 

Nice to see the article essentially announce that there will be more exemplary battles in the future. Though is it cynical of me to be quite salty about the 'sorry about the delay we were working on some very secret things!' bit? 

 

I hope they to and do a 2nd round for all the legions.

 

All exemplary units atm are basic power if I remember correctly, so some terminator units would be nice.

[Etruscan]

30 minutes ago, Misterduch said:

 

I hope they to and do a 2nd round for all the legions.

 

All exemplary units atm are basic power if I remember correctly, so some terminator units would be nice.

Correct apart from the Raven Guard who have the Deliverers in Cataphractii armour.

[Eternal Despair]

35 minutes ago, Misterduch said:

 

I hope they to and do a 2nd round for all the legions.

 

All exemplary units atm are basic power if I remember correctly, so some terminator units would be nice.

Dark Angels, Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, Night Lords and Raven Guard all received Terminator armoured units, and I'm praying that Iron hands finally get Morlock terminators which would be about a third of the legions getting terminator units from the exemplary battles

[Stitch5000]

3 hours ago, Misterduch said:

All exemplary units atm are basic power if I remember correctly, so some terminator units would be nice.

"It was at that moment that he realised he had not, in fact, remembered correctly. "

[Doctor Perils]

I kitbashed myself Nomus Rhytan the other day, these adherents would work pretty well with him I think.

Can someone remind me what relentless does now? It used to be mostly useful for heavy weapons I think.

[SlickSamos]

25 minutes ago, Doctor Perils said:

Can someone remind me what relentless does now? It used to be mostly useful for heavy weapons I think.

Move-shoot-charge regardless of weapon type (benefiting Heavy, Salvo (RIP), Ordnance & Rapid Fire) as per 4th through 7th (I have no idea what the rules before 4th and after 7th are)

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Doctor Perils said:

I kitbashed myself Nomus Rhytan the other day, these adherents would work pretty well with him I think.

Can someone remind me what relentless does now? It used to be mostly useful for heavy weapons I think.

 

It lets the adherents rapid fire the bolter part of their combis in addition to the flamer part before charging. Basically allows you to go offensive with the unit instead of always taking the charge. 

[Xenith]

My thoughts are in the NRBA post o this also, but it's nice to see another AL unit with a niche. 

 

Initially I'd thought these were just better headhunters, and they are in many ways, however they lack precision shots. On the flipside, these pair much better with a vigilator or something to remove a sergeant then hydras wail. If you can do that at night, then it's effectively -2Ld and testing on Ld 5 for the shell shock pinning check for a Ld7 unit. 

 

Adding in the knives, they are a much better close range unit that Headhunters, having +1A and +1 wound, so they replace them for general marine killing, however headhunters have precision melta, which is great. Though Seekers do also. 

 

Actually typing all that out, between these guys and seekers, are headhunters relevant anymore, outside being troops in a leviathal?

[Fallen11]

Do you really need almost 300pts unit to face 100pts tactical marines?

Compare them to elite stuff better, and see how they fare vs it.

[Slips]

Power Daggers being Breaching 5+ but S3 (meaning they wound marines on 5+) means their CC is basically always AP2 so they can bully 2+ saves (since they also have +1init) as long as the unit theyre going after dont have a 4++ and/or S8/ID weapons to negate the Effrits 2 wounds.

 

Downside is, however, that theyre WS4 which is....not great if you want to actually go after some tougher targets.

 

Still, theyre a great setup unit to deny a key squad the ability to Intercept as well as make things more susceptible to pinning in general.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It looks like you can do some janky hydra wail for a failed ld test, and then maybe a hydran excursor to hit on either 2s or 3s. Obviously only works against non alpha legion marines, and a little too complicated for only a decent end result, but that actually seems ironically fitting for alpha legion.

 

With 10 doing a volley into charge and hitting on 2s (let's say a vigilator with excursor is tagging along) they'll basically kill 5 cataphractii.  Kinda rough for a unit that needs almost 100 points of character +1 warlord , but they'll absolutely shred through units that you wouldn't expect them to; WS 5 units take about 4 breaching shotgun wounds and then 9 piercing dagger wounds at I5. 

[Cadmus Tyro]

3 hours ago, Xenith said:

My thoughts are in the NRBA post o this also, but it's nice to see another AL unit with a niche. 

 

Initially I'd thought these were just better headhunters, and they are in many ways, however they lack precision shots. On the flipside, these pair much better with a vigilator or something to remove a sergeant then hydras wail. If you can do that at night, then it's effectively -2Ld and testing on Ld 5 for the shell shock pinning check for a Ld7 unit. 

 

Adding in the knives, they are a much better close range unit that Headhunters, having +1A and +1 wound, so they replace them for general marine killing, however headhunters have precision melta, which is great. Though Seekers do also. 

 

Actually typing all that out, between these guys and seekers, are headhunters relevant anymore, outside being troops in a leviathal?

The answer to that depends on the role you’re asking headhunters to fill. Effrit and headhunters fulfil very different roles. Effrit are a harassment unit used to shut down interceptors and help pin units and finish them off with greater CC potential. Their shotguns remaining at range 12” is really helpful as it synergises well with the legion trait and shroud bombs to prevent units reactively withdrawing before you get chance to shoot them. 
 

Headhunters are significantly less durable but they can be applied to a wider range of targets/roles. Precision shot multi Meltas are quite ridiculous in terms of their ability to snipe characters.   I’ve found mine have reliably killed tooled up praetors, particularly nasty when you consider it could potentially react multiple times against a unit in the enemies turn. Tooling up with Combi plasma/ melta is a decent way to ruin a dreadnoughts day. I tend to upgrade mine all with Combi’s, the short range of Banestrike doesn’t synergise well with the legion trait. They can also take a Rhino, for withdrawal reaction shenanigans.
 

Out of the three units we are discussing, I would say seekers become less relevant unless you are using them in a recon company RoW (to free up fast attack slots) or barebones to utilise Scorpius rounds. A full unit with x10 Combi weapons clocks in at 280pts, but due to the cheaper cost of combi weapons x10 headhunters clock in at 275 pts. So they’re cheaper, all come with power daggers, preferred enemy, scout, relentless and a venom sphere on the sergeant. Seekers do give you access to a LR in fast attack though (which can infiltrate). 

They all have a place I think, but seekers are harder to justify.

 

Cadmus 

 

 

 

 

[Astartes Consul]

11 hours ago, Misterduch said:

 

I hope they to and do a 2nd round for all the legions.

 

My left field / completely insane prediction is that the next wave of plastic releases will be Despoilers, Jetbikes & Assault Squads and that there will be a second round of Exemplary Battles to exploit this. 

 

Ravenwing, White Scar, Emperor's Children units on Jetbikes. World Eaters Despoiler units. Lots of Assault Squad derivatives. That sort of thing.

[Noserenda]

Itd be nice to see things for the other HH armies at some point, either mixed into the next batch or as an intermission or something :D Itll stave off the inevitable bloat/burnout of inventing new legion specific units for every legion, every year at least!