New codex all infantry list

[greatcrusade08]

Hi guys

Apologies to mods if wrong place, i couldnt find the army list section??

 

so i was looking at all infantry lists to see if viable, and im really not confident, perhaps i have been spoiled by conscripts in the last edition.

Heres what i came up with so far.

 

using parade drill and heirloom weapons regimental doctrines

 

Batallion 1

Cadian castellan

-master tactican

 

Cadian command squad

 

6 squads cadian shock troops

-3 x double meltagun

-3 x double plasmagun.

 

3 x 3 mortar teams

 

kasrkin squad 1

-sergeant, plasma pistol, power sword

-2 meltagun

-2 flamer

-Brutal strength

 

kasrkin squad 2

-sergeant plasma pistol, power sword

-2 meltagun

-2 plasmagun

-Trophy hunters

 

kasrkin squad 3

-2 plasmagun

-hot shot volley gun

-Industrial efficency

 

Batallion 2

2 x platoon command squad

-lascannon team, banner, master vox

-one master of ordnance attached

 

6 infantry squads

-lascannon, plasmagun, vox

 

3 x field ordnance teams

-bombast field gun

 

commisar

-power sword

 

2000 on the nose

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by greatcrusade08

[sairence]

Nice. Probably more orders than you need, but kinda have to with double battalion. I would out the MoO with the Cadian Command squad. They're likely to be mobile due to no heavy weapon, and he needs LoS for his buff to work of I'm not mistaken. 

 

Speaking if that fire support aection, you'll need a lot of space to fit all that. Would definitely test out how viable it is to squeeze all that in. 

 

With that many dudes, it might also be an idea to fit in another Commissar somehow. 

 

Only other thing I find a bit odd is the special weapon selection on your Kasrkin. Flamers on one squad and not maxing out your options on the other.

 

As for how good it is...honestly, who can tell at this point. Our infantry is definitelt more deadly than it used to be. Not sure if they can stand up to more enemy fire than before though.

[greatcrusade08]

11 minutes ago, sairence said:

 

Only other thing I find a bit odd is the special weapon selection on your Kasrkin. Flamers on one squad and not maxing out your options on the other.

 

Yeah this was a difficult choice, i was looking as using master tactician to put two of the units in reserve, wanted them to have something to take on all comers, looking at taking an objective by force. mobility is an issue.

[Lord_Ikka]

6 minutes ago, greatcrusade08 said:

Yeah this was a difficult choice, i was looking as using master tactician to put two of the units in reserve, wanted them to have something to take on all comers, looking at taking an objective by force. mobility is an issue.

Taking on all comers really isn't a good use of the Kasrkin- they've got the number special weapons you can set up to take out specific threats. Having them in reserve is fine, but they should be kitted out to hit specific targets as hard as possible. 

 

Anti-tank/high Toughness units: 2x plasma, 2x melta

Anti-heavy infantry: 2x plasma, 2x volley guns, 1 marksmen rifle (it's not as accurate due to movement penalties for Heavy, but the AP/D is good)

Anti-infantry: 2x flamer, 2x volley guns (grenade launchers can replace either, if you have low Toughness targets for frags or have the squad shooting longer range than 12")

All-around: 2x plasma, 2x grenade launchers (weakest of the options, as it isn't really focused on any specific target but can still do damage to most things)

 

Parade Drill is also a trap in regards to being good, as the First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire order is just downright better than it- you don't have to remain stationary and you get an extra shot from each lasgun. With the number of officers/orders you can do (and the bouncing effect of Regimental Tactics), you can order most of your infantry to FRF if you need them to (if they aren't using Take Aim). Taking something like Elite Sharpshooters might give you a better chance to hit with your heavy/special weapons. 

[greatcrusade08]

18 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Parade Drill is also a trap in regards to being good, as the First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire order is just downright better than it- you don't have to remain stationary and you get an extra shot from each lasgun. With the number of officers/orders you can do (and the bouncing effect of Regimental Tactics), you can order most of your infantry to FRF if you need them to (if they aren't using Take Aim). Taking something like Elite Sharpshooters might give you a better chance to hit with your heavy/special weapons. 

 

fair point, i figured parade drill with take aim would give good synergy.

i suppose ignoring AP-1 would be good, if your in cover doubly so.

i do like elite sharpshooters though. its a shame different batallions cant take different rules.

[Lord_Ikka]

4 minutes ago, greatcrusade08 said:

fair point, i figured parade drill with take aim would give good synergy.

It can, so you have to balance out a few things, Amount of Hits and Possibility of Damaging. 

 

Amount of Hits

Option 1 Parade Drill + Take Aim

At max range (28" with Heirloom) while staying stationary you'll be putting out 14 lasgun shots at BS 3+. That is 9 shots hitting on average. 

 

Option 2 Elite Sharpshooters + FRF

At max range stationary you are firing 21 lasgun shots at BS 4+. 10 hits on average, with the possibility of a re-roll (if not used for a special weapon)

 

The second part, Possibility of Damaging, is more nebulous now that Armor of Contempt is in play for a few of the tournament staple armies (SoB, CoB) making the -1 AP buff from Take Aim hard to quantify. It could be quite good if you run up against armies without AoC and that don't have great armor saves like other IG, Orks, or even swarm Nids. That will all depend on what you are facing in your local meta. 

 

Personally, if I was running your list I'd want Heirloom Weapons and Elite Sharpshooters, then choosing whether to order my units with FRF or Take Aim depending on what they're shooting at and at what range (Take Aim up close, FRF at range).

[greatcrusade08]

SOLD

 

thanks :)

[Jolemai]

4 hours ago, greatcrusade08 said:

Hi guys

Apologies to mods if wrong place, i couldnt find the army list section??

 

 

 

 

With the exception of the Heresy fora, there aren't any army list fora any more. So it's in the correct place 

[Emperor Ming]

It will be interesting to see if all inf lists are viable now

 

My worry is that people struggled to make them work when squads were 55pts

 

and its not like their durability has changed

[greatcrusade08]

4 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

 

and its not like their durability has changed

 

yeah this is worrying, the ignore ap-1 looks like it has value, but with only a 4+ in cover and 10 wounds, its not great.

i think infantry have value against elite lists with high damage weapons. a lascannon can only kill 1 model.

except those new space dwarves, they broke that rule grr.

[MrKoolPants]

That’s a lot of infantry! 
 

I second Lord_Ikka on the Kasrkin changes. At 100 points, you sort of want your glory boys to trade up into something specific. Think of them like the scalpel. 
 

This is an interesting breakdown of the output of the different Regimental Doctrines. tl;dr is that none of the doctrines beat the damage output of Born Soldiers. In your list, I think this is doubly true. Sending waves up and pushing wounds with Born Soldiers is probably how you’ll do most of your damage. 

[sairence]

24 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

It will be interesting to see if all inf lists are viable now

 

My worry is that people struggled to make them work when squads were 55pts

 

and its not like their durability has changed

 

I don't know, Take Cover across a whole battleline seems pretty annoying to remove.

 

All infantry worked very well after we got HotE, but it relied on mass Conscripts. It was really easy to play too, but was funnily enough made difficult by the out-of-game logistics for transport and set up.

 

It'll be interesting to see whether the improved killiness will make running 100-200 regular Guardsmen viable.

[Emperor Ming]

Mordian Glory 

19 minutes ago, sairence said:

It'll be interesting to see whether the improved killiness will make running 100-200 regular Guardsmen viable.

Mordian Glory did a vid on the maths of running all inf a while ago, but the valuable information is: that in his experience of running all inf lists, you need to calculate into your list and tactics, loosing around 50 guys a turn, then also have enough to stay on objectives etc

 

If that's viable now with the points increases and removal of conscripts.  Time will tell I guess

Edited November 28, 2022 by Emperor Ming

[duz_]

7 hours ago, greatcrusade08 said:

Apologies to mods if wrong place, i couldnt find the army list section??

 

This is the correct section. Army lists have been rolled into the main discussion subforum now 

 

I have no valuable input for your list unfortunately. Other than we will be expecting picts and batreps 

[greatcrusade08]

thanks for the imput chaps, only one way to find out if this is viable i guess

 

[Emperor Ming]

Are you sure on the field guns, they are way way way overcosted

[jarms48]

I would put Creed in personally. The +1 strength is super useful on hotshots, mortars, and bombasts 

[xxxjtmxxx]

i would change to born soldiers. it has better synergies with strats and kasrkin.

 

then i would drop the Castellan and for him bring creed. the 30 points come from the ppistol and sword from the kasrkin sarges.

 

that would be my list. 

[TCC]

Include Lord Solar and born soldiers, remove the bomblast guns (or some of them). 

[greatcrusade08]

Seems bombast guns get the indirect nerf now. Probably will drop them tbh

prob looking at 18 infantry squads, 3 sets of mortar teams and 3 kasrkin units with a mix of hq at 2k

born soldiers for sure and creed in the mix

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

33 minutes ago, greatcrusade08 said:

Seems bombast guns get the indirect nerf now. Probably will drop them tbh

prob looking at 18 infantry squads, 3 sets of mortar teams and 3 kasrkin units with a mix of hq at 2k

born soldiers for sure and creed in the mix

Why keep mortars if the indirect fire debuff is why you’re dropping the bombasts?

[Emperor Ming]

Mortar teams might not be worth it either

[TCC]

4 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Mortar teams might not be worth it either

I love taking them, but even in the current climate they do so little damage they really are not worth it (unless you want a unit to sit on your DZ objective). 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

18 minutes ago, TCC said:

I love taking them, but even in the current climate they do so little damage they really are not worth it (unless you want a unit to sit on your DZ objective). 

in which case you might as well use bombasts because they might actually do some damage to something important, or cause serious damage to chaff.

[INKS]

Krieg with a medic. Mordian Glory is now talking about this. 

why not a Brigade? You'll still get 12 troops.