Best Anti-Tank unit? For killing Spartans!!

[N3rdhead]

So my regular enemy is iron hands and he will be running double Spartan in 2000 pts and triple in 3000. 
 

So i dont really know what to do against them. Shooting them with Las isnt really doing much. 
 

Melee… yeah but how to get there?

 

Any recommendations for getting rid of them? 
 

 

[Nagashsnee]

What army do you play? Legion/mech/Custodes/etc?

 

Some armies/legions have options that radically change the situation, for instance your mate has the perfect solution in double haywire pistol moritat that iron hands can do. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Nagashsnee

[N3rdhead]

Dark Angels, Sons of Horus, Space Wolves and Ultramarines

 

most of them go for melee. 
 

but i need a i approach to the problem. 

[Nagashsnee]

Well the approach this ed is always haywire, but most marines struggle to access it in the numbers that you need.  Failing that its high str low ap guns. So something that a vindicator laser destroyer, str 9 rules to help pen and the ap that can instant kill it.  Otherwise you go weight of fire which for me is the worse option as things like 10 las devas lack the mobility that is key to taking things out quickly. 

 

I dont play marines in 2ed so my views may be out of date but for what its worth dreadnoughts would be my go to solution, specifically contemptors. Why you ask? They have the ability to take heavy weapons (multi/as etc) either in both or one hand, if one handed they posses fantastic melee potential (this is my chosen route) PLUS the fist IIRC can take grav too for added bonus, and once the spartan is dealt with they can then walk around and deal with anything else. 

 

Leviathan while more points heavy does it too and better, one magna melta weapon in hand, cc in the other and it can deal with the spartan and pretty much anything else in the game.

 

Land speeders, not the fancy FW ones (tho they make all the types now haha) the box standard 40k one can also take grav in both weapon slots too, so thats another one.

 

I would suggest 1-2dreads, 1-2 speeders and maybe something like a rapier-vindi-deva squad. The moment the spartan make a move hit it with everything you got (always go for the weapon that might 1 shot it first in case you get lucky) and drag it down. Most of the units above will do well after that too and fit in any list as they are not too points intensive. 

 

Try making a list in the list building section and stating the issue ( opponent plays 2 Spartans there) and we can really crunch some number once you nail down points and your legion. 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Nagashsnee

[Dont-Be-Haten]

3 hours ago, N3rdhead said:

Dark Angels, Sons of Horus, Space Wolves and Ultramarines

 

most of them go for melee. 
 

but i need a i approach to the problem. 

With each of your armies you seem to already have your answer.

 

The quick and easy solution varies with which army you want to invest in. Leviathan dread with cyclonic melta or grav Flux in a drop pod is one of the first things I thought of.

 

Proteus Land speeders with grav + multi-melta is another option that is very maneuverable and can deep strike. Otherwise is a 16" movement that can hide behind LoS blocking terrain.

 

From a melee perspective you have deep strike threats with SoH and Justerians which can take thunder hammers. Dark Angels do Dark Angel things, Ultras are more of that Swiss army knife that are awarded a lot of customization as well.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Multi meltas are the fastest way to kill Spartans now. Take some Proteus speeders, scimitars or javelins and get angle on the side armour.

 

Grav works en masse on the Proteus speeders and will wipe out any vehicle/dread/robot that you point them at after a certain amount, but they're really only useful against those things. 

 

Stay away from the grav flux bombard. You get an average 2 hull points out of it against vehicles and that's it. No difficult/dangerous zone, no explodes chance, no real impact against anything that's not complete chaf. Take the melta lance and average an explodes per volley and be a threat to a bunch of other units.

 

Melee is a bit too late, since the Spartans are in position. The answer is basically dreads with both melee weapons since they can run ahead and are durable enough to get in position. Idk why thunderhammers are being recommended against av14, you need an average of 36 attacks to 100-0 a spartan with them.

[MichaelCarmine]

I second @SkimaskMohawks suggestions.

I also don't know, why ThunderHammers are suggested against vehicles. they have the same chance against a vehicle as a standard PowerFist (brutal doesn't work on vehicles).

Chainfists are the obvious infantry melee choice for results against vehicles. 

Although i would'nt recommend destroying vehicles in melee, since they explode with Str.8.

I've also had great success with double stormcannon Leviathans.

although they cannot explode a vehicle, they glance them down through sheer weight of sundering, rending (5+) fire. 

I have to admit, i'm not a big fan of denying a Leviathan its claw, but one can't deny its effectiveness against every type of tank. 

Edit: I do however vote for the Melta-loadout on Leviathans, since they are able to deal with everything, they could face. =]

Edited December 10, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Thunderhammers on Justerians are just a passing remark because they are just good. I didn't think I needed to express that chain fists are optimal, simply that not many units in the game can equip THammers in abundance. With as many attacks as they dish out, weapon loadouts don't matter that much.

 

 

 

 

[MichaelCarmine]

Ofcourse weapon loadouts matter oO - you may have bloked @SkimaskMohawk, thats why you didn't see his comment.

A squad of 5 justaerin with thunder hammers come in at 350pts, same as a spartan and on average inflict about 3/4 glances/pens in one Melee round. With Chainfists, these 350pts Justaerin can even take out a 12 Hullpoint Lord of War.

The thread comes with the question, how to best destroy Spartans, fast. 

Thunderhammers have no place at anti vehicle (cost/efective wise) since they cost the same as chainfists and get you no bonus at all against vehicles.

Except one attack more on pure melee Varagyr.

 

So yes, loadouts do matter, regardless of the volume of attacks. =]

[MichaelCarmine]

After going through the books, i think squadron(s) of Multimelter Landspeeders may be the best choice.

I considered Skyhunters, since they cost you nearly the same points, but give you more wounds. 3 speeders with 6 MM are 9 wounds T5 for 315 pts, 6 skyhunters with 6 MM are 12 wounds t4 for 300 pts.

But since they will likely be the first target of the Spartans Lascannons, the speeders have a much better chance of surviving that amount of Firepower, due to T5.  Also, additionally, they can outflank.

 

Edit: Squad of those, together with a (maybe dropping) Melta-Lance Leviathan schould do the trick. =]

Edited December 10, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Dont-Be-Haten]

14 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Ofcourse weapon loadouts matter oO - you may have bloked @SkimaskMohawk, thats why you didn't see his comment.

A squad of 5 justaerin with thunder hammers come in at 350pts, same as a spartan and on average inflict about 3/4 glances/pens in one Melee round. With Chainfists, these 350pts Justaerin can even take out a 12 Hullpoint Lord of War.

The thread comes with the question, how to best destroy Spartans, fast. 

Thunderhammers have no place at anti vehicle (cost/efective wise) since they cost the same as chainfists and get you no bonus at all against vehicles.

Except one attack more on pure melee Varagyr.

 

So yes, loadouts do matter, regardless of the volume of attacks. =]

I mean you don't really need more than like 2 chain fists, it's all arbitrary at that point. I was simply making the statement that in his SoH list he already has answers outside of my recommendations. If you want to tailor a list for just one thing then sure 5 chainfists will do it. If it's that much of an issue then the OP can just ignore the passing remark.

 

14 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

After going through the books, i think squadron(s) of Multimelter Landspeeders may be the best choice.

I considered Skyhunters, since they cost you nearly the same points, but give you more wounds. 3 speeders with 6 MM are 9 wounds T5 for 315 pts, 6 skyhunters with 6 MM are 12 wounds t4 for 300 pts.

But since they will likely be the first target of the Spartans Lascannons, the speeders have a much better chance of surviving that amount of Firepower, due to T5.  Also, additionally, they can outflank.

 

Edit: Squad of those, together with a (maybe dropping) Melta-Lance Leviathan schould do the trick. =]

I run a squad of 3 land speeders and they are exceptional. If monetary contrainsts wasn't a thing, even with 3d printing, I would 100% take jetbikes with MMs. They are a fantastic unit. For what they bring, they are just made of glass.

[suxdavide]

Proteus Land Speeders with multimelta and grav gun (or double multimelta) in either Deep Strike or hidden.

A unit of 5 costs quite a lot, but they quite always bring back the points ;) ( I usually run 3 )

[Misterduch]

A squadron of 2 Omega sicarans should pop a spartan a turn with a bit of luck. You can even keep 'em cheap as the lascannons can only glance on 6's if he has a flare shield. Other than that, from vehicles a squadron of melta predators within 18" will pop spartans like no tomorrow since for the cost of 1 flare shield spartan you can get 3 with base sponsons. 2 Sicaran venators or 2 arachnus deredeo's have a decent shot at atleast crippling one.

 

Dreadnough wise, a single contemptor with the chainsfist will cut trough one no problem. Infantry is where it gets a bit problematic. Shooting wise your best bet are meltaguns within 6" and Multimelta within 12", gravgun spam could work but unless you are IH thats less optimal. For melee you need chainfists or meltabombs. Thunderhammers and power fists are a bad choice as both would only glance on 6's ( S4x2 => 8+D6 vs AV14 ) There is a bunch of legion specific gear that may help but idk about any off of the top of my head besides IW grav melee weapons and IH grav guns.

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Misterduch

[Imren]

Fury of the ancients RoW, 3-6 Contemptors with DCCW and chainfists running up the field. In the backlfield you have box dreads with Gravis lascannons on both arms (2 box dreads at ca 315p that shoots 8 BS5 lascannon shots a turn, good for stripping hullpoints before chainfist dreads charge in) and a drop podded leviathan with siege drill and snippy claw that goes wherever help is needed.

 

That should deal with spartans.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Imren

[SkimaskMohawk]

6 hours ago, Misterduch said:

A squadron of 2 Omega sicarans should pop a spartan a turn with a bit of luck. You can even keep 'em cheap as the lascannons can only glance on 6's if he has a flare shield. Other than that, from vehicles a squadron of melta predators within 18" will pop spartans like no tomorrow since for the cost of 1 flare shield spartan you can get 3 with base sponsons. 2 Sicaran venators or 2 arachnus deredeo's have a decent shot at atleast crippling one.

 

The two omegas average 1.16 glances, need a 4+ to activate plasma burn, and have 6 HP to get through. You need an average about 3 turns to burn a spartan down in the front arc, or be about triple as lucky as usual.

 

The melta preds are a great unit though IMO. 

[Misterduch]

15 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

The two omegas average 1.16 glances, need a 4+ to activate plasma burn, and have 6 HP to get through. You need an average about 3 turns to burn a spartan down in the front arc, or be about triple as lucky as usual.

 

The melta preds are a great unit though IMO. 

did you account for the rending bonus?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Misterduch said:

did you account for the rending bonus?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea. To get a glance on the front of a spartan w/ flare, you need to either roll a 4+ into a 3+, or a 5+; both being a 33% chance per successful hit. 

[bluedestiny]

Anything grav will eat armor and spartans for breakfast.

[Misterduch]

14 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Yea. To get a glance on the front of a spartan w/ flare, you need to either roll a 4+ into a 3+, or a 5+; both being a 33% chance per successful hit. 

huh, I could have sworn it would be higher than 1.16 glances. My old calc must have been wrong

[Gorgoff]

I mean it was luck but I popped a Spartan turn one with a Melter shot from my Recon Sergeant. They infiltrated, moved 6" close turn one and I was lucky with the role on the table. 

BOOM.

Melter are good now against Spartans. 

[Xenith]

As in previous editions, getting within melta range is the most reliable way - if you can trade your ~100-200pt unit for a spartan and now footslogging melee unit in turn 1, it might be worth it. 

 

Triple melta preds are a great and powerful unit, and the same price as a spartan, however the spartan with maybe 3-5 lascannon shots has the potential to one-shot that unit from further away, so keep them protected.