Why is there no plastic Space Marine super heavy?

[Burni]

I find it very strange that Space Marines, as the most popular army by far, have no plastic model larger than the Repulsor Executioner. Why do you think that is?

 

Does the audience for the army skew towards the lower end of the market? Lots of people have a small force but ‘serious’ buyers move on to other armies like Knights or Chaos? (I say this as an SM collector with 1000’s of points of models).

 

GW must have market research on this, and seem to have take the point of view that a large plastic SM kit wouldn’t sell, but it just seems crazy to me. The Lord of Skulls was worth developing but a large SM kit would not be viable?

 

In the past, I could see the argument that the only large vehicle in the lore was the Thunderhawk and that was too big. But since the Storm Raven, creating new vehicles no longer seems to be an issue (especially now Cawl is inventing stuff left and right).

 

The recent rumour that some FW is going plastic has given me hope for a plastic Astreus but I was convinced we’d get an Overlord with the last edition of Apocalypse, so I’m guaranteed to be disappointed.

 

So why do you think we’ve never got a plastic super heavy for the most popular army in the game?

[lost_angel]

in-universe these tend to be a better fit with the heresy legions which often took on large scale engagements by themselves. Superheavies are much less common for 40k space marines as the application of such a large vehicle is at odds with the surgical role of marines in this era.

 

If you’re questioning why none are currently in plastic then I’d imagine the projected sales simply don’t make it worth it although, now that heresy 2.0 is mainstream, we may see this change.
 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by lost_angel

[Lord Marshal]

I could see an argument having happened behind the scenes where they'd prefer Marine players to buy an Imperial Knight, because it's one small step from buying one for your Marine force, to buying multiple to create a full Imperial Knight army. Maybe I'm reaching a bit there.

 

Every Super-Heavy in plastic has been a Knight-adjacent (Wraithknight, Gargants) except the Baneblade and the Tesseract Vault (which is just a bigger Monolith). I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

It could also just be that the plastification of 30k has been on the cards for a while, so knowing stuff like the Fellblade, Typhon, etc, were going to go plastic at some point they wanted to focus on making non-LoW 40k kits instead.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Lord Marshal

[Doghouse]

I think it could just be that GW felt that they didn't need one as it doesn't necessarily fit into the whole elite strike force theme and probably best left to the Guard. I totally agree though you think it'd be a no brainer cash grab.

 

I think ultimately it'll boil down to how far they want to distance Heresy from 40K as I feel that the likes of Fellblades must be on the cards and whether that will be a relic vehicle or regular one we'll have to see I guess. 

[Lysimachus]

I'm not sure where it fits on the required size to be considered 'super-heavy' but I'd say the best shot for a big Marine vehicle kit would be a fully plastic Stormeagle/Fireraptor kit* - which I would buy immediately.

 

The rumours of all the HH FW kits getting plastic versions gives me hope!

 

*and they could quietly retire the Stormraven... 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Lysimachus

[Guest]

They give me a plastic Astraeus I would buy one without a second thought.

[TheMawr]

I actually think there might potentially be an (intentional or unintentional) "spacemarine are the heroes" element at play from the designers point of view. When looking at videogame design ( or for that matters.. any form of hero vs enemy story including mythology.) the enemy supplies the whole spectrum; from hordes of critters (wich in essence is also a "big" thing) to bigger monsters and end bosses. The hero is more heroic because they can single handedly or with just a small group tackle those titanic threats. Basically.. the whole David vs Goliath principle.

 

Now FW (and Horus Heresy) dont take entirely to the same superheroic/mythological approach as GW ( and 40k) from their books to their releases its more a military might design point of view... because of that from the fans point of view Spacemarines are just another army to be threated "equally" but so far nothing seems to indicate that 40k designers thread that same path.

 

Another thing to keep in mind (as someone mentioned) is that the knights already have this function, its a side effect of the imperium faction being dissected in several standalone factions/subfactions wich other armies have not. An Imperial knight is (fluffwise) to spacemarines what a wraithknight is to Aspect warriors or an Ork gargant to Beastsnaggas.

[Magos Takatus]

I think there was a large peak over a few years where Apocalypse was really pushed and that has declined over recent years. I haven't heard anyone talk about that way of playing 40k for some time now, it's more about chasing game balance and competitive play and narrative focus tends to follow things like Crusade instead? (Not that I'm saying those are bad things, just what GW seem to be following more these days)

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The main reason I don't think space marines have a vehicle bigger than the Repulsor is that GW has struggled with flyers since their release. I don't think they wanted a tank because guard have one, and thematically marines don't hold the center. I also don't think they wanted a walker because it would compete with Knights. So that leaves flyers but they've just never gotten them to a point where they don't break the game. From Heldrakes in 6th, to admech & Orks making it so that you can only have two flyers in a tournament game in 9th they just have never really fit in. When you factor in that marines are the most popular fraction, they really have to be careful with them and think that creates a roadblock.

 

I do think that TheMawr has a good point about design factors as well. Lords of War tend to become the focus of their armies when people run them and maybe GW does feel it would cheapen marines.

 

 

 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

It's actually quite simple: There WOULD have been a plastic Super-Heavy out already if Firstborn were not in the process of being squatted. GW hasn't greenlit any actual new Firstborn units/vehicles since the Primaris rollout. It's a dead (semi)faction, outside of 30K releases and the occasional limited-edition character models or stuff like Space Marine Heroes.

 

As for the Primaris, it just hasn't made sense range-wise to give them a monster plastic tank yet. They did a stopgap super-heavy release with the Astraeus, but it's pretty telling that they went out of their way to note on the original datasheet that this was NOT one of Cawl's designs, but a mutt STC hybrid. They may as well have just shouted "A REAL Primaris (plastic) super-heavy is on the way, but for those who can't wait, here's an expensive alternative."

 

The Primaris range will be getting a plastic Lord of War tank no later than 11th.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Lord Nord

[Lexington]

4 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

I could see an argument having happened behind the scenes where they'd prefer Marine players to buy an Imperial Knight, because it's one small step from buying one for your Marine force, to buying multiple to create a full Imperial Knight army. Maybe I'm reaching a bit there.

I actually don’t think this is a reach at all - Knights have been very easy to take in any Imperial force since their release, and it costs a lot less to get people to buy an existing Knight kit that can be used across multiple forces than it would be to make a Knight equivalent for all of those armies. Basic bang per buck logic.

[Noserenda]

I suspect they don't sell well enough compared to other centrepieces? There have only been the two guard versions and the stompa prior to knights, and rumour had it they faced opposition internally for years.

 

Obviously knights flourished in their own right but they are very easy to use in any imperium faction as well as their own army, broader appeal than any single tank, even for marines.

[Marshal Reinhard]

6 hours ago, Brother Captain Arkley said:

They give me a plastic Astraeus I would buy one without a second thought.

Pretty much. I quite like the design, miss having a big centerpiece, but it's just to prohibitevly expensive in resin. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Pretty much. I quite like the design, miss having a big centerpiece, but it's just to prohibitevly expensive in resin. 

Yeah after having a Warhound years ago and building a Stormblade for a friend, I just am not a fan of dealing with big chucks of resin.

 

That alone keeps me from that Grav Tank of gloriousness :).

[WARMASTER_]

I honestly think @lost_angel got it in one… Space Marines of the 40K era are rapid strike forces mostly acting as force multipliers in critical missions and rarely if ever still have access to super heavies like say Fellblade’s and if they do they’re precious irreplaceable relics to the chapter, so might only be used once a century if at all 

 

So it makes sense that Forge World who made the Heresy era minis are also the ones making all the super heavies, although I wouldn’t say it’s to much of a leap to say we’ll see most of those kits come out in plastic sometime in the future as GW are now making the mainline Heresy kits 

[Karhedron]

The Kratos has been given a 40K dataslate and I am hoping that we will see the Spartan in 40K in next edition since it is now available in plastic. 

[MegaVolt87]

SM legion era super heavies are low priority, so much is needed in HH besides more tanks. (like melee upgrades, generic units like breachers etc). Also 40k is knight focused. 8th ed superheavies like falchion were viable until they were pointed out of the game, though in 9th I am not sure where they stand now. If anything, in 10th ed the HH plastic units could be rolled into the SM dex as relic units, eliminating the need for them to be in Imperial Armour. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

I honestly think @lost_angel got it in one… Space Marines of the 40K era are rapid strike forces mostly acting as force multipliers in critical missions and rarely if ever still have access to super heavies like say Fellblade’s and if they do they’re precious irreplaceable relics to the chapter, so might only be used once a century if at all 

 

 

Oh I think you are 100% right here.

 

But damn I would love a plastic super heavy for my Primaris Marines, Overlord Gunship, Astraeus Grav Tank etc...

 

That centrepiece is something I feel my primaris lack. Knights and Titans are great but not what I want.

[Burni]

It’s a good point that so many of the Lords of War are walkers (as they are in 40K lore). I now have a slight worry that GW could make some sort of super dreadnaught with two coffins in a sort of grim dark Pacific Rim Jaeger…

 

in terms of SM being focused on personal heroics; I get what you mean but the Thunderhawk has been a core part of the SM identity for a long time and they keep mentioning the Overlord, so I don’t feel that’s a strong reason we haven’t seen one.

 

I think a LoW flyer makes the most sense though as I personally find it annoying that Primaris have no table top way to get down from their strike cruisers in orbit. Redemptor travel plans in particular are a mystery… 

[Imren]

Assuming that there are 40k-rules for all the FW vehicles that means you have a quite large selection of large vehicles to choose from, if you don't mind working with resin.

[Karhedron]

36 minutes ago, Imren said:

Assuming that there are 40k-rules for all the FW vehicles that means you have a quite large selection of large vehicles to choose from, if you don't mind working with resin.

 

I don't mind resin so much but my local gaming club tends to be unhappy with FW units. If it is not in the main codex, it is not welcome. FW has never shaken off its perception as "pay to win" around here.

[Wulf Vengis]

The shadowsword(?) Baneblade conversion used to be a plastic kit. 

[spessmarine]

Thinking about it, and remembering Dawn of War I, I feel the Land Raider sorta held the role of SM superheavy. Sure doesn't feel like it now.
Worth noting that the SM LoWs did include the Land Raider Terminus Ultra.

[Guest Triszin]

I suspect we will see one eventually.

 

I'd love for a plastic astreus

[MithrilForge]

OOH... A Plastic Thunderhawk , Thats' my dream.... one day.... 

 

M.