What is the arch enemy of Chaos Daemons?

[Maggotlord]

Hi all, 

 

the title says it all: what is the arch enemy of Daemons? 

 

Grey Knights? Or any other faction? 

 

Thanks! 

[Brother Tyler]

I don't know that the setting provides for such a concept. In many settings there are diametrically opposed adversaries that serve as counters to each other. In many settings where there is "Chaos" it is countered by "Law" or "Order" (the concept lifted from the works of Michael Moorcock). In more recent pop culture, the Dark Crystal featured the Skeksis (evil) and the Mystics/urRu (good), each representing a duality of the original urSkeks, each of which divided into one Skeksi and one urRu - a split personality, so to speak. In modern Abrahamic religions there are the angels and demons, the latter being the twisted and fallen remnants of the angelic host that turned. In the Warhammer 40,000 setting, meanwhile, such a duality isn't as clear cut. Daemons have a number of natural foes, such as the Grey Knights and Harlequins. However, there are also foes that are dangerous to daemons because they lack the presence in the Warp that renders one vulnerable to daemons. Such adversaries include the Star Gods, Necrontyr, Tyranids, etc. One might even argue that the Men of Steel may have been such an adversary for daemons. And then there are the Illuminati, whose continued existence in the lore might be debatable. These are mortals who were possessed by daemons at one time, but who cast those daemons out, either through force of will or external assistance. Such Illuminati gain both a near perfect understanding of daemons and Chaos as well as immunity to them and to the Warp's influences. When the Illuminati definitely existed in the lore, they were quasi-allies/equivalents of the Aeldari Harlequins (in terms of their opposition to Chaos, not their martial/athletic skills). In a way, the Emperor might also be described as an archenemy of Chaos, hence the efforts of the Great Powers to sabotage the Emperor's efforts with regard to the Imperium and the Astronomican. While many have likened the Emperor to a "new [Chaos] god" it might be more accurate to describe him as the antithesis of Chaos - a being of Order whose ascendance threatens Chaos. In this, the Emperor's chosen servants (i.e., those imbued with supernatural powers by the Emperor) might be described as the most likely adversarial counterparts to daemons. Since such servants are quite varied, there might be a host of such archenemies, not least including:

• Grey Knights (possibly sharing some of the Emperor's power by the rumored use of his gene-seed)
• Saints (such as Celestine)
• Illuminati (the implication being that the power to cast out their daemons was in part due to the Emperor's influence, whether internal or external)
• Sensei (though we're not even sure if these continue to exist since the Perpetuals may have replaced them)
• et cetera

I wouldn't say, however, that there is one specific archenemy of Chaos daemons.

 

Is there a specific context that you're looking for? That might help us to narrow things down to certain (sub-)factions that might be appropriate to your use.

[tychobi]

Other demons. 

[sitnam]

Going off of a similar vein to @Brother Tyler , factions in 40k don’t really have monolithic rivals. Various subfactions, such as specific chapters and warband, might have a particular enemy. Iyanden are known for their wars with the Tyranids, Armageddon Steel Legion against Ghaz, etc. But we don’t really see entire factions fighting one group over all others. The Black Templar are known for their wars against Ghaz, but on the same hand Helbrecht has had a rivalry with Imotekh and Sigismund was a staunch defender against Abbadons first Black Crusade.

 

The Daemons of Chaos get a special note because their sub factions (the monogods as well as Bel’akors lackeys) are as much concerned with their own power struggles as fighting the real-space races. 

[N1SB]

10 hours ago, Maggotlord said:

 

the title says it all: what is the arch enemy of Daemons? 

 

 

Brother, it's a good question, so don't be discouraged.  In fact, I would ask your advice...

 

...what is the arch enemy of a mighty mountain?  Who is the nemesis of a great typhoon?

 

If you can answer me that, then I will tell you the arch enemy of Daemons.

 

 

The point is, Daemons are more like a force of nature, like the sun & the moon, than people.

 

Now, if you are, say, playing Nurgle and a friend wants to create an army that is your chief rival, Nurgle doesn't hate them, Nurgle loves all life as they can be infected with his humour and his gift.  However, here are some factions that especially hate Nurgle:

 

• Roboute Gulliman lead his Ultramarines against them, just burned a hole in Nurgle's garden (in the recent Dark Imperium novel series)
• The best doctors in 40k are...technically Dark Eldar/Drukhari (they can keep people alive under torture for decades), but the best human doctors are the Ordos Hospitaler among within the Adeptus Sororitas, so Sisters of Battle regularly battle Nurgle on a medical basis
• Nurgle holds one Eldar/Aeldari goddess hostage, Isha.  The tricky part is he loves her and thinks he's protecting her.  It's a...toxic...relationship
• Within Chaos itself, Nurgle is always competing with the other powers, but back in 1st ed it especially hated Tzeentch and vice versa

 

In case you happen to play Nurgle, these are some thoughts from the lore.  I played Nurgle.

[Closet Skeleton]

23 hours ago, Brother Tyler said:

I don't know that the setting provides for such a concept. In many settings there are diametrically opposed adversaries that serve as counters to each other. In many settings where there is "Chaos" it is countered by "Law" or "Order" (the concept lifted from the works of Michael Moorcock).

Moorcock didn't invent Law vs Chaos or introduce it to Fantasy fiction, but did influence Warhammer's portrayal of Chaos with his themes of body horror, champions of dark gods and the Eight Pointed Star. The order/chaos conflict comes out of 19th century research in comparative religion and was included in D&D via Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions which also influenced Moorcock.

 

Quote

 

“Chaos is common to both Warhammer and 40,000,” Priestley says. “Originally the Chaos warriors and demons and gods were created by Bryan Ansell. He wrote a supplement for the Warhammer first edition called Realm of Chaos, and it was inspired by the Michael Moorcock books where you have the Gods of Law and the Gods of Chaos. Bryan replicated the idea of Chaos as this mutating thing in creating his four gods: Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch and Slaanesh. 

“I was always a bit worried about the fact that it was so close to Michael Moorcock, so I merged the idea of the Chaos Gods with the idea of primal Chaos from a kind of medieval renaissance background, more specifically, as depicted in Milton’s Paradise Lost. It describes primal chaos as lying between Heaven and Hell, and Earth is basically hanging within Chaos. Lucifer is cast into Hell and falls through Chaos. It’s all very inspiring stuff.”

 

 

https://www.tabletopgaming.co.uk/features/the-making-of-warhammer-40000-rick-priestley-on-the-birth-of-the-sci/

 

So the absense of direct Order deities in 40k is kind of deliberately there to limit the Moorcock influence.

 

In warhammer fantasy Chaos was the a primordial magical substance that all deities, not just the capital C Chaos ones, were expressions of. So the defunct Order deities removed from later versions of Warhammer Fantasy were Chaos Gods of Order.

Quote

The Powers of Law are entities which exist within Chaos just like the Powers of Chaos themselves, but are built upon single uncomprimising ideas or ideals. It could be said that a Power of Law is a single aspect of a great power of chaos but this paradox would be a bit of a head spinner for our readers...

 

While the strict division of Powers into two pantheons of Law and Chaos is little more than a question of perception by their worshippers, because Powers are creations of belief and emotion, they become what their worshippers expect of them. So the Powers of Law become adversaries of Chaos - and perceive of themselves as the opposite of Chaos. Their own souls are made from the same Chaos matter as other Powers, but are bound by a single ideal.

https://www.docdroid.net/obgv8Gj/chaos-doc-pdf#page=5