How does GW treat non-tabletop loadouts?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

So for video games, video media, and art work.

 

apparently in dark tide the ogryn can take a grenade launcher or a twin heavy stubber. Are these things that we should expect to be an option in 10th edition for example?

sort of how people are expecting new marine jump troops because of the SM2 trailers?

[Evil Eye]

I doubt it, though honestly GW's "no model, no rules" attitude isn't quite as ironclad as people make it out to be; I remember in one WD battle report they had a Knight with a non-Codex loadout, specifically mentioned as "Not technically matched play legal, but too cool to leave out". I'm sure it'd be easy enough to homebrew for a narrative game.

[RWJP]

GW's explanation for the various weapons in Darktide would be simple:

They're fighting for the Inquisition and are not representative of what normal Ogryns would get to use in Astra Militarum service.

 

[alfred_the_great]

And “legal” only applies to matched play, IIRC. 

[Xenith]

If you want an Ogryn with grenade launcher, convert it, use the rules and run it by your opponent - that's always been their MO. It won't be event-lega though.

 

Just because a loadout apears in a game doesn't mean it'll make it to the table - otherwise we'd have Captain titus style smash captains toting lascannons and thunderhammers by now. Space Marine also just invented a weapon, the Stalker Bolt Rifle, that was retconned into the lore. 

[Magos Takatus]

8 minutes ago, Xenith said:

If you want an Ogryn with grenade launcher, convert it, use the rules and run it by your opponent - that's always been their MO. It won't be event-lega though.

 

Just because a loadout apears in a game doesn't mean it'll make it to the table - otherwise we'd have Captain titus style smash captains toting lascannons and thunderhammers by now. Space Marine also just invented a weapon, the Stalker Bolt Rifle, that was retconned into the lore. 

Yes, Shame about that Graia-pattern Vengeance Launcher. Not sure what the rules would have been but it was certainly fun for me when I played the game.

[Mandragola]

The obvious thing for GW to do with a game like Darktide is release minis of all the models, to draw people into 40k. I don't think they've ever done this for computer games but there are a few from BL books.

[Magos Takatus]

I've got three other friends who play Darktide currently and I would love to paint up a version of their character for them, it would be awesome.

[Cleon]

I'd be surprised if they don't do a set with a Gaunts Ghost style limited plastic release, maybe with rules for kill team or an 'Agents of the imperium'/elites choice with inquisition keywords.

[Ramell]

Depending on the cosmetics worn and weapons used, Veterans and Ogryns are very easy to make from existing sets. I'm working on one such model right now, using the new Cadians.

It's the Psyker and Preacher that are tricky. I'd love official models for those, and they'd also work for regular guard armies.

[Domhnall]

22 minutes ago, Cleon said:

I'd be surprised if they don't do a set with a Gaunts Ghost style limited plastic release, maybe with rules for kill team or an 'Agents of the imperium'/elites choice with inquisition keywords.

 

GW (or even yourself or your game group) could add in a new keyword for such characters: "Legends" (or historic or some such). Basically, it covers any character/model that is based on anything from books/games/official 3rd Party stuff. It's sort of an 'open' category in that, using darktide as an example, you can have that squad, they don't need to follow standard load out rules, and can be used in certain games types. Downsides are, they can't be used in tournaments (unless specifically stated), and cost considerably more than their standard counterparts in points.

[Xenith]

GW's already shown off studio conversions of the characters - was it in WD or Warcom, I forget. 

[Noserenda]

I vaguely recall something about licensing being a bit of a pain with directly translating characters from computer games, even with the relatively short leash GW keeps their licensees on, stuff like GW owning everything except the specific character likeness and sometimes merchandising issues. That and lining up the production queue, which for GW is quite long, which is why some tie ins were from the much more agile forgeworld i suspect. 

You can definitely just make cool models and play them with your friends though, some might even call that a better way to play :D 

[Bryan Blaire]

@Xenith White Dwarf (pretty sure it was the most recent - 483) had conversion ideas/work done to create characters from Darktide shown in it.

 

Edit: Nope, I was wrong, the article for Darktide conversions is in issue 482, starting on page 16.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bryan Blaire

[Closet Skeleton]

On 12/21/2022 at 8:42 AM, Xenith said:

If you want an Ogryn with grenade launcher, convert it, use the rules and run it by your opponent - that's always been their MO. It won't be event-lega though.

 

Just because a loadout apears in a game doesn't mean it'll make it to the table - otherwise we'd have Captain titus style smash captains toting lascannons and thunderhammers by now. Space Marine also just invented a weapon, the Stalker Bolt Rifle, that was retconned into the lore. 

 

Space Marine came out in 2011 while Sergeant Telion had a Stalker pattern Bolter in the 5th ed marine codex released in 2008.

[Noserenda]

Cool i was sure it predated the game by a margin but couldnt be bothered to dig it up :D 

[TheWarmaster]

On 12/20/2022 at 11:54 PM, RWJP said:

GW's explanation for the various weapons in Darktide would be simple:

They're fighting for the Inquisition and are not representative of what normal Ogryns would get to use in Astra Militarum service.

 

That is literally it.

On 12/20/2022 at 11:11 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

So for video games, video media, and art work.

 

apparently in dark tide the ogryn can take a grenade launcher or a twin heavy stubber. Are these things that we should expect to be an option in 10th edition for example?

sort of how people are expecting new marine jump troops because of the SM2 trailers?

Honestly, no.

Space Marine had Grenade Launchers as a weapon Titus could use.. and we've never had Grenade Launchers, except on Scout Bikes on the table. 
That game came out like 497 yrs ago now.. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by TheWarmaster

[Pacific81]

I think the inhabitants of the 40k universe goes far, far beyond what we see in the tabletop game in terms of unit types, loadouts, even races of alien and other things.

 

I recently listened to an interview with Andy Chambers who said as long ago as 2nd edition only units which had a miniature, or one that could be created with a simple conversion from elsewhere in the range, were used in the codex/army books. Compare with the bonkers unit lists in Rogue Trader where units were represented by often only a few lines of enigmatic text, or perhaps a simple pencil illustration, but gave a greater sense of the 'unknown beyond'.

 

So you have the 40k miniature wargame: designed to be a fun & straightforward way for you to purchase GW miniature ranges, paint them in recommended colour x or y and play against an opponent you met that day. But behind this you have a massively varied and diverse narrative where Imperial Guardsmen use bolters and grenade launchers, a space marine commander uses the blade of a felled alien warlord, Clans of Orks are cybernetically advanced by a deranged Mekaniak and have kustom shootas for arms, a Rogue Trader's voyage meets a dozen alien races that have not been mentioned anywhere in a BL book. And this is just one day in the 40k galaxy!

 

Sadly, we have become accustomed to a fantasy world which starts and stops with the contents of a codex army list, which I think is a great shame.

[Magos Takatus]

28 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

Clans of Orks are cybernetically advanced by a deranged Mekaniak and have kustom shootas for arms,

I'm sure that Forge World created a unit of Ork Nobs that were heavily augmented, I think they were called Cyber Slashaz or something? I don't think they got models, but I think it was an entry for the Imperial Armour book that featured Orks? I can't find reference to it as it seems my Google-fu is weak today.

*Just found them under "Cybork Slasha mob" on games-workshop 7th edition. I suppose you were just supposed to gather up all the bionic parts in the Ork Nobs kit? Sadly the unit has vanished but it would have been potential for a great modelling project.

[Closet Skeleton]

5 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

So you have the 40k miniature wargame: designed to be a fun & straightforward way for you to purchase GW miniature ranges, paint them in recommended colour x or y and play against an opponent you met that day.

 

40k wasn't designed around recommended colour schemes outside of a few outliers like the Space Wolf codexes, the Dark Vengeance boxset or sadly the newest Chaos Marines book.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Closet Skeleton

[lansalt]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:14 PM, TheWarmaster said:

Space Marine had Grenade Launchers as a weapon Titus could use.. and we've never had Grenade Launchers, except on Scout Bikes on the table. 

That game came out like 497 yrs ago now.. 

 

There were a few space marine models with auxiliary grenade launchers in 2nd edition. IIRC a couple sergeants, and a Legion of Damned mini. There was also a FW limited ed. Boarding Marine in mkIII armour with one (they have rules in the HH game).

 

 

Primaris intercessors just use an updated version of this.

[alfred_the_great]

Termies had them in the back of their power fist, or as a “harness”. 

[TheWarmaster]

On 12/25/2022 at 1:55 PM, lansalt said:

 

There were a few space marine models with auxiliary grenade launchers in 2nd edition. IIRC a couple sergeants, and a Legion of Damned mini. There was also a FW limited ed. Boarding Marine in mkIII armour with one (they have rules in the HH game).

 

 

Primaris intercessors just use an updated version of this.

Aye those are underslung, I meant an actual full on Grenade Launcher on its own, like on the Scout bikes. 

 

Also, love the old metal models. <3 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 12/25/2022 at 2:07 AM, Pacific81 said:

I think the inhabitants of the 40k universe goes far, far beyond what we see in the tabletop game in terms of unit types, loadouts, even races of alien and other things.

 

I recently listened to an interview with Andy Chambers who said as long ago as 2nd edition only units which had a miniature, or one that could be created with a simple conversion from elsewhere in the range, were used in the codex/army books. Compare with the bonkers unit lists in Rogue Trader where units were represented by often only a few lines of enigmatic text, or perhaps a simple pencil illustration, but gave a greater sense of the 'unknown beyond'.

 

So you have the 40k miniature wargame: designed to be a fun & straightforward way for you to purchase GW miniature ranges, paint them in recommended colour x or y and play against an opponent you met that day. But behind this you have a massively varied and diverse narrative where Imperial Guardsmen use bolters and grenade launchers, a space marine commander uses the blade of a felled alien warlord, Clans of Orks are cybernetically advanced by a deranged Mekaniak and have kustom shootas for arms, a Rogue Trader's voyage meets a dozen alien races that have not been mentioned anywhere in a BL book. And this is just one day in the 40k galaxy!

 

Sadly, we have become accustomed to a fantasy world which starts and stops with the contents of a codex army list, which I think is a great shame.

I don’t think anyone has become accustomed to the world starting and stopping at what’s available in the rules.

i think people are always just hoping for the rules to provide more flexibility for loadouts, and people like me look at things like this and say “maybe this will come to the game?”

[Toxichobbit]

20 hours ago, alfred_the_great said:

Termies had them in the back of their power fist, or as a “harness”. 

 

They still do. Both are in the Marine Codex.