Do you think firstborn marines will be discontinued?

[Bryan Blaire]

I’m not so sure about that phandaal - did the RTB01 Beakie Marines become obsolete when the Marine line was rescaled over various years?  A Marine model is a Marine model, regardless of scale - just because GW decided that they wanted to try and have their cake and eat it too doesn’t mean that people can’t agree to just use models, whether Primaris or classic scaled, as any Marines they need to.  The models don’t become obsolete.

 

(Why yes, I do have hundreds of Marines of many statures - oddly enough, they all mix together in units just fine)

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bryan Blaire

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Eventually yes I’m sure. Probably around 11th or 12th edition is my guess 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

37 minutes ago, Bryan Blaire said:

I’m not so sure about that phandaal - did the RTB01 Beakie Marines become obsolete when the Marine line was rescaled over various years?  A Marine model is a Marine model, regardless of scale - just because GW decided that they wanted to try and have their cake and eat it too doesn’t mean that people can’t agree to just use models, whether Primaris or classic scaled, as any Marines they need to.  The models don’t become obsolete.

 

(Why yes, I do have hundreds of Marines of many statures - oddly enough, they all mix together in units just fine)

This is more than a simple rescaling.

sure you could do conversions, but there’s no firstborn hellblasters. There’s no primaris devastators, etc.

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 12/21/2022 at 7:06 AM, Xenith said:

Games Workshop has just listed a bunch of older firstborn models made to order on their website, dated 18th December 2022. They've also just pumped out a whole metric grox-ton of firstborn models, weapons and armour in the Horus Heresy range, which can of course be used in 40k, with the Kratos, a new firstborn tank in plastic, receiving 40k rules.

 

They're not going anywhere for the time being. 

GW has put discontinued guard regiments up made to order, that haven’t been in normal production in a decade or more.  Made to order models are just a money grab and nothing more.

 

HH models being usable for 40K also doesn’t prove anything other than GW likes to double dip.

 

 

[Bryan Blaire]

13 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

This is more than a simple rescaling.

sure you could do conversions, but there’s no firstborn hellblasters. There’s no primaris devastators, etc.

 

 

I’ve got five plasma cannon Marines that would beg to differ…

 

You can’t point to anything other than “this is the Primaris model” that makes any of them different.  You’ve got five Marines with plasma cannons.

 

Again - you’ve got rules (which are pretty much BS) and forced lore that makes them different.  Otherwise it’s just scale and weapon stylings.

 

Seriously, you act like conversions weren’t a corner stone of this hobby or something.  That’s what I’m talking about when people whine about official BS stuff… I’m going to point back to this to show that people WANT there to be a divide.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Bryan Blaire

[phandaal]

OP was pretty clear on asking if his current units would lose their rules in some future iteration of 40k, so just pretend I used whatever word would best convey that idea.

 

Personally, I think everything is going "Primaris" at some point and GW is going to keep creating new units rather than upscale existing OG Marine units.

[phandaal]

10 minutes ago, Bryan Blaire said:

Seriously, you act like conversions weren’t a corner stone of this hobby or something.  That’s what I’m talking about when people whine about official BS stuff… I’m going to point back to this to show that people WANT there to be a divide.

 

This is about OP's question, not people here trying to create a divide.

 

If he was playing exclusively with a group of people who would be fine with him pointing to plasma cannon Devastators and saying "these are Hellblasters," he would not be here asking his questions.

 

Also, he is asking specifically if non-Primaris unit rules will be removed.

Edited December 23, 2022 by phandaal

[Bryan Blaire]

Per the interview I posted - GW made a conscious choice to keep the classic Marine units…

 

Yes, maybe, eventually, in a couple of editions (or shorter, or longer), GW will decide that there’s been enough time to simply say that all Chapters have converted every single unit over to larger Marines with their new style unit types - but we’ve been through big rules changes before.  I know my Terminators changed a bunch from 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition, sometimes you have to be prepared to be creative if you want to keep using your existing models as things change.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

So what transport was Peachy attempting to refer to at 48:08?

 

"I've got this squad of Intercessors that are mounted in a Gladius and I've got these ones in a Repulsor..."

 

Is there a "Gladius" transport out there that I'm missing? Otherwise, he either inadvertently spoiled an upcoming release or (maybe more likely) referred to the internal development name of the Impulsor or Executioner.

 

If there does wind up being a "Gladius" vehicle later on, I guess we know where we first heard of it.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Bryan Blaire said:

I’ve got five plasma cannon Marines that would beg to differ…

 

You can’t point to anything other than “this is the Primaris model” that makes any of them different.  You’ve got five Marines with plasma cannons.

 

Again - you’ve got rules (which are pretty much BS) and forced lore that makes them different.  Otherwise it’s just scale and weapon stylings.

 

Seriously, you act like conversions weren’t a corner stone of this hobby or something.  That’s what I’m talking about when people whine about official BS stuff… I’m going to point back to this to show that people WANT there to be a divide.

I’m not saying people can’t convert, but I just don’t think the FB model line or datasheets will survive indefinitely and almost certainly won’t survive another decade.

 

yes you can convert your FB to represent primaris, but you probably wont be finding new FB marine models or rules even for the old ones in 2033.

[WARMASTER_]

Unless there’s another massive shift in lore timeline I can’t see the Firstborn kits going anywhere 

 

Not to mention some the MKVII kit’s will still outsell a LOT of other kits I’d say they’re pretty safe for a good long while 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 Eventually molds will be non viable then they will probably start mothballing units.

[Robbienw]

Never going to happen.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Interesting rumor from valrak, that there will be new terminators, but they won’t be primaris terminators the sculpts will just be updated including rescaled, so who knows what’s happening at this point 

[Felix Antipodes]

Let’s hope the rescale makes them to a proper size.  I’ve always envisaged termies to be halfway between a normal marine and a Dreadnaught.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

16 hours ago, Felix Antipodes said:

Let’s hope the rescale makes them to a proper size.  I’ve always envisaged termies to be halfway between a normal marine and a Dreadnaught.

That seems a bit too big, especially based on images and descriptions we have.

 

remember multiple terminators can fit inside of transports.

[Captain Idaho]

I consider this old art a great way to demonstrate the size differences between Marines and Terminators.

 

Pointy hats in the pic doesn't invalidate it! 

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If you love Terminators well then you’ll really love Primaris Terminators !!

Edited February 15, 2023 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Captain Idaho]

A giant beefy specialist Terminator unit works thematically even for us who might not like the discrepancies between our Firstborn and Primaris. 

[Karhedron]

On 12/23/2022 at 7:00 PM, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

 Eventually molds will be non viable then they will probably start mothballing units.

 

That will take a very long time. GW are still bashing out the Falcon which is around 25 years old and the chassis is also used as the basis for the Fire Prism, Shadow Weaver and Wave Serpent so probably gets a reasonable amount of use. GW use hard steel for their molds which can survive an awful lot of cycles. I seem to recall the only reason the original Land Raider got ditchedwas because the mold actually got dropped.

[Blindhamster]

On 12/24/2022 at 6:38 PM, Robbienw said:

Never going to happen.

 

Agreed, if GW had wanted to drop old school marines, they would have, they could have. They've shown they're comfortable and capable of doing so if they really want.

 

Depending on how the new terminator release pans out (if true that its even a thing, which seems a reasonable bet as they were noted in a rumour list that has otherwise come true so far), we might even be beginning to see GW looking at the "next phase" of whatever plans they have, perhaps with current classic marine units getting updates to be inline for scale etc with primaris.

[Doghouse]

To be honest I'd be happy to make the move to Primaris if they could use Land Raiders. I think all they would need to really do is release a veteran squad for Heresy to update and replace the current tactical squad.

[Malakithe]

Eventually once enough Chapter specific stuff is released then they might think about moving firstborn equivalents to Legends. Also on the more real business side their production facility can only do so much at once so if they start producing one thing thats roughly the same as something thats old they will probably discontinue the old.

[Evil Eye]

I've said it many times before but I'll say it again because why not?

 

My predictions for Firstborn is that they'll keep teasing us with the occasional tidbit, hinting at a full rescaled Firstborn line. They've already done some Firstborn models; the Black Templar fellow from the 3E art, Castellan Crowe, those blindboxes, HH, etc. I suspect what they'll do is very, very gradually drip-feed the occasional Firstborn release, and then when all hope seems lost that we're ever getting them again we'll get a whole rescaled line with predictable "Old thing is new again!" fanfare and everyone will buy their Space Marine armies AGAIN.

 

...And then a few months later people will start making threads asking if the Primaris are ever going to get another release!

 

In any event I'd imagine such a release will be a way off, but I very much doubt that the Firstborn range will actually be canned. Whilst a lot of metal/resin minis have been phased out, to the best of my knowledge no "mainstay" plastic kits have been discontinued.

 

There is also the issue of how much of a sidegrade new Firstborn would be;  Scouts could do with a refresh for sure, but things like the Sternguard and latter-end chapter-specific units are still fantastic kits, and even the old Terminators and Dreadnought still look pretty decent despite their age... though admittedly, the Chaos Terminator refresh was pretty fantastic, and I liked the old kit, so I'm sure a new one would be rather good.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm not sure we'll ever see a 40K Firstborn release from the studio but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

There are some factors GW needs to consider though with their long term plans. Primaris were a financial, shareholders friendly move to get players to rebuild their Space Marines armies whilst also enabling GW to create models that appeal to whatever themes are fashionable at the time (The new toys for the Phobos troops look direct out of Fortnite, for example), but there are issues with marrying Primaris to elements of the hobby that can only really be addressed with new Firstborn:

 

1) Comparison and mirroring of Chaos Marines. Remember, Chaos Marines were the Dark mirror of their loyalist brothers. Primaris don't mirror them very well, especially as there aren't Chaos Intercessors, Chaos Inceptors, Chaos Gravis. And there won't be, as that would bloat the Chaos line worse than Loyalist Marines!

 

2) Historical 40K. How can we play games or campaigns that are iconic in the 40K timeline without Firstborn troops? The Battle of Maccragge, 2nd war for Armageddon etc. 

 

The solution is likely new Firstborn for 40K (nah, never happen as the line would need serious work and likely Codex splitting) or more likely we need the Age of Darkness ruleset to pick up the slack.

 

Eventually I believe the logical way forward on that is the Age of Darkness is expanded to cover notable campaigns throughout the timeline. That way the 40K studio can concentrate on Primaris and the Firstborn games folk might want to play will be able to.

 

It's not perfect as you might want to play Firstborn Marines vs your friend's Necrons and there might not be a campaign book out for them yet, but whilst GW is doing that, Firstborn can still have rules in the Codex book as now and it won't be a problem.