Do you think firstborn marines will be discontinued?

[Kallas]

25 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I addendumed it, you only quoted the bit that totally agreed. I DON'T think we'll see a mainline 40k kit of primaris size marines purely made from none mkX, I DO think we'll see kits where there is more of a mix of mks that INCLUDES mkX lol

 

But yeah, I suspect even that would be fine for most people (me included tbh)

We're pretty much in agreement, but the quote was just about the scale. If they do a mixed Mk 5-10 Tactical kit, that'd be great.

[Blindhamster]

@Kallas

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Except for the terminators I didn’t see anything that looked like firstborn in the video. Even then the Librarian had a unique warsuit.

[Scribe]

If GW is smart, they will just drop the distinction all together at this point. It was always a rescale, and the Terminators can be the bridge.

 

#LetThemRideinRhinos

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 minutes ago, Scribe said:

If GW is smart, they will just drop the distinction all together at this point. It was always a rescale, and the Terminators can be the bridge.

 

#LetThemRideinRhinos

At this point this is what I see being the most likely scenario, and now all marines can be which ever type the player wants, as there’s officially a pattern of behavior to support this between the terminators and the BT castellan.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I really don’t want to see yet another retcon.

[Scribe]

15 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I really don’t want to see yet another retcon.

 

Primaris = Not in a LR.

Terminator = In a LR.

Primaris in Terminator Armour = ???

 

It kind of needs to be dropped, it was always ALWAYS an idiotic restriction to just force new (ugly as sin) vehicle kits on players.

[Blindhamster]

I like the repulsor a lot, I just don't put some of the extra gubbins on it, its a kit where less was definitely more. You're welcome to not like it though, of course!

[Scribe]

38 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I like the repulsor a lot, I just don't put some of the extra gubbins on it, its a kit where less was definitely more. You're welcome to not like it though, of course!

 

I can accept I'm a bit odd in this regard, but I honestly love the simple Rhino.

[Evil Eye]

22 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

I can accept I'm a bit odd in this regard, but I honestly love the simple Rhino.

You're not alone. Technically too small or not I think the humble Rhino is one of those kits that doesn't really need replacing any time soon. I actually don't mind the Impulsor even if it needs major excess-gun-removal-surgery; I had started a Death Guard project ages ago which I should really pick back up, and I reckon with some heavy conversion it'd work nicely as a sort of grave-tank corpse cart. The Repulsor, however, is a complete disaster and I hate it.

 

And yeah, absolutely let the Primaris into Rhinos and Land Raiders. And Firstborn into Impulsors if they really want to, for some reason.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

1 hour ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I really don’t want to see yet another retcon.

 

What would be the retcon? As an example, the fluff for Primaris has had them riding in other vehicles from the outset. It was always the rules that added in that artificial distinction, and it's always been unpopular.

 

I'd also argue that it's been implicit since the second 8th ed codex that donning Terminator armour was the pinnacle of both Firstborn AND Primaris progression, so I found the confirmation of that this morning completely unsurprising.

[WrathOfTheLion]

They've ridden in those vehicles all the time in novels and all, so it's only ever existed mechanically.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

57 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

 

What would be the retcon? As an example, the fluff for Primaris has had them riding in other vehicles from the outset. It was always the rules that added in that artificial distinction, and it's always been unpopular.

 

I'd also argue that it's been implicit since the second 8th ed codex that donning Terminator armour was the pinnacle of both Firstborn AND Primaris progression, so I found the confirmation of that this morning completely unsurprising.

 
Fair enough.

[Medicinal Carrots]

Honestly don't care what they do with the fluff, but I want the old units and a lot of the old aesthetics to stick around. Not saying new units and/or new aesthetics are bad, I just don't want them to come at the expense of what I've known and loved for most of my time with 40k.

 

My ideal:

-Remove the transport barring, that's always been dumb. Restrictions on bulkier stuff riding smaller transports is fine, but your standard troops should all share a motor pool.

-Remove the Primaris distiction altogether. Use the Terminators as a guide and fluff it as "this squad may contain Primaris or Firstborn marines, but they function basically the same". So you can have your all Primaris or all Firstborn chapter and still use whatever units you want.

-Refresh the old range to use the new scale and techniques available. Combined with the above, you could quash the objections of all but the most diehard haters from both groups (aside from the eternal fluff arguments, which predate Primaris and will outlast 40k itself). If the models all look decent and you can build the narrative you want for Your Dudes(tm), it's a win win.

-Keep the look of old units. The new Terminators look like Terminators. A new Tactical squad or Assault squad or Ironclad dread should be recognizably consistent, just better modelled.

 

Those last two points are a longer term deal, but wouldn't surprise me if that is or becomes the plan after the Primaris range is complete. There's no reason the first 2 points can't happen at the start of 10th.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Medicinal Carrots

[Bouargh]

14 hours ago, Scribe said:

If GW is smart, they will just drop the distinction all together at this point. It was always a rescale, and the Terminators can be the bridge.

 

#LetThemRideinRhinos

 

I agree on the point that the distinction may drop, but Primaris are not really only a rescaling.

There is a change in the army composition and mecahnics too, at least a unit roles and purposes definition level. They are a little bit more aligned with the philosophy of SM Legions in HH. I that sense the flexibility that Firstborn had is disapearing. 

 

Once crossed our shared expectaciones of line blurring with the "new" streamlined datasheet for units, I am afraid that this is a way to phase out firstborn more rapidely: get an index, but a first iteration the datasheet of units with too many options will go to a new form of Legends. And current Legends will go to the bin. Some units with low options will survive more time may be (sternguard), but others such as devastators or tacticals will probably drop soon. 

 

I am old enough to remember the fate of some armies from "Ravening hordes" index in WFB, as well as the series of cut outs from the last time indexes were released en masse by GW at launch of a new ed. and how a few weeks after the SM codex was leading to deep changes in the SM range and mechanics...

 

And even like this if the teasing video with what looks like combi weapons on primaris goes to light of the day, even sternguards are going to go... No one´s safe, they said it, the galaxy goes only darker... 

 

I´d bet we will chant sooner then later "The Firstborns are dead, hail to the Primaris...".

 

PS: as I regularly fail in mostly  each and every prediction I can verbalize, feel free to disconsider this post ... 

 

 

[Bryan Blaire]

Yes, Primaris were a Marine rescale that GW tried to fluff into something else and give themselves design room going forward to do different things.  That point has been made by GW employees in interviews.  No one should act like any of this crap isn’t just made up for GW to sell more models.

 

All we can do is wait and see - no one can accurately predict what GW is going to do, at best we try to look at patterns to hypothesize.  Even the rumor folks are simply hearing about what decisions have been made already.  Primaris have been a departure from what GW did with Marines for six Editions that saying that two Editions of them sets the entire tone for what Marines will be going forward effectively neglects 3/4ths of the available data.

 

As of now though, it looks like classic Astartes have their stuff staying put for at least this Edition, and likely for as long as the molds continue to produce acceptable models and GW continues to see sales for them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s all made up at the end of the day really though .

[DesuVult]

Primaris have lost a chunk of earlier reconceptilualizing of squad loadouts.  Intercessors lacked a heavy weapon but newer squads like heavy intercessors have them for example.

Edited March 24, 2023 by DesuVult

[Orange Knight]

13 hours ago, DesuVult said:

Primaris have lost a chunk of earlier reconceptilualizing of squad loadouts.  Intercessors lacked a heavy weapon but newer squads like heavy intercessors have them for example.

 

They have the grenade Launcher upgrade. Some squads tend to have a particular heavy weapon upgrade closely themed around what the unit is equipped with. Same with the Eradicators and the Multi-Melta.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The recent news made me feel this thread is relevant again.

 

I can’t believe that anyone at this point can believe FB (mini marine sculpts)won’t be completely phased out at some point.

[Blindhamster]

Aren’t we already discussing in the other thread though?

 

yes it looks like the firstborn units will gradually get discontinued, I think most of the ones that are left are going to get straight replacements in the vein of the sternguard set though and therefore mean you can use existing models. Some may take longer than others to come out though. 

p.s. I don’t think most people thought they wouldn’t eventually get discontinued, a lot of people generally thought it would happen in ~10 years from when primaris were introduced, which is probably inline with 11th, and probably going to be about right still imo

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

55 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Aren’t we already discussing in the other thread though?

 

yes it looks like the firstborn units will gradually get discontinued, I think most of the ones that are left are going to get straight replacements in the vein of the sternguard set though and therefore mean you can use existing models. Some may take longer than others to come out though. 

p.s. I don’t think most people thought they wouldn’t eventually get discontinued, a lot of people generally thought it would happen in ~10 years from when primaris were introduced, which is probably inline with 11th, and probably going to be about right still imo

 

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen people on this forum say something along the lines of “if they were getting rid of FB why would they have made new terminators?”

 

I was definitely one of the people who estimated 10ish years to be fully phased out.

[Emperor Ming]

How do primaris even get in terminator suits, they are much bigger than fb

 

Do they wheel in Todd howard...it just works

[Evil Eye]

At this point it seems inevitable that GW is going to retire real Space Marines in favour of their Poochie counterparts, thus it seems inevitable I will only be playing older editions of the game as I have become so fed up with Primaris that I refuse to even play against them.

[Blindhamster]

11 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

At this point it seems inevitable that GW is going to retire real Space Marines in favour of their Poochie counterparts, thus it seems inevitable I will only be playing older editions of the game as I have become so fed up with Primaris that I refuse to even play against them.

Let’s avoid derogatory terms for both types, firstborn and primaris are fine. Let’s avoid “dwarf marines”, “squat marines” etc for firstborn and “poochie” or whatever else for primaris. Avoiding derogatory terms helps avoid another discussion inevitably descending in the same way others do.

 

it’s absolutely your choice to not play with or against them as you wish, not playing against them seems an issue if you want to do pickup games

Edited July 29, 2023 by Blindhamster