Do you think firstborn marines will be discontinued?

[Berzul]

3 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Let’s avoid “dwarf marines”, “squat marines” etc for firstborn and “poochie” or whatever else for primaris

 

I've always referred to my marines as Chibi Marines. But, as a term of endearment. Would it be taken as a derogatory term?

 

I'm not trying to be a smartass here, I truly want to know how people consider the term to be.

[Blindhamster]

27 minutes ago, Berzul said:

 

I've always referred to my marines as Chibi Marines. But, as a term of endearment. Would it be taken as a derogatory term?

 

I'm not trying to be a smartass here, I truly want to know how people consider the term to be.

I imagine if people thought you were anti firstborn, it’d be taken as derogatory. 
 

context matters or course, I know you love firstborn, I also know evil eye hates primaris. *shrug* just seems easier to avoid it in the first place

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

50 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

At this point it seems inevitable that GW is going to retire real Space Marines in favour of their Poochie counterparts, thus it seems inevitable I will only be playing older editions of the game as I have become so fed up with Primaris that I refuse to even play against them.

Can you show me on a doll where the primaris marines hurt you?

[Berzul]

23 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Can you show me on a doll where the primaris marines hurt you?

 

Mostly the wallet, I'd reckon. How much spent money does each one of us see thrown into the bin with this decision?

 

I know I am seeing a good few hundred dollars gone, just like that. Might be in the real of the low thousands, actually.

[Blindhamster]

6 minutes ago, Berzul said:

 

Mostly the wallet, I'd reckon. How much spent money does each one of us see thrown into the bin with this decision?

 

I know I am seeing a good few hundred dollars gone, just like that. Might be in the real of the low thousands, actually.

Whilst I do agree some things are not fully usable, there is plenty that is.

 

we know new scouts are coming - your existing scouts are likely to be able to be used for them. Same is true of assault marines

 

dreadnaught has a generic profile so most likely existing models will still be usable via that. 
 

company command can just use the new “primaris” rules which cover most options well enough (though I guess some apothecary models might not by wysiwyg), same is true of techmarines and librarians.

 

bikes will probably be covered by outriders, which I really do think will see an MPK with options that are at least similar to what current bikers have.

 

main “issue” units I see from the announcement are:

the landspeeders 

the thunderfire 

the scout bikes (not personally encountered them in games)

and arguable less importantly the hunter/stalker (I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in a game)

 

so how does that equate to thousands of dollars of models that are apparently unusable? Seems a little hyperbolic to me… at most the majority *might* require a weapon swap and will work fine as the new analogue for that unit which is hardly different from numerous other editions frankly.

 

I totally get the sadness at not being able to buy more of those things for people that liked them, I’m sure there were people sad to lose the last assault squad for the current one as the current one had weirdly short legs ( I’m sure of this because I was sad to lose them lol) but I just can’t see how thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of models are suddenly unusable as I’ve seen thrown around in a few places.

 

 

 

[Berzul]

I think it would be a bit naive to not assume that this is just a pecursor for phasing outs to come.

 

I absolutely expect everything firstborn to go away. And a considerable rate, if this last announcement is any indication. 

 

I'd bet that, within 2 years, Firstborn will be mostly gone. The replacement units already exist. 

 

This shift to legends for bikes and speeders did not come about because of new releases. The units that replace them have been out for a long while. Same goes for Tacticals, Devastators, Dreadnoughts, etc.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

4 minutes ago, Berzul said:

I think it would be a bit naive to not assume that this is just a pecursor for phasing outs to come.

 

I absolutely expect everything firstborn to go away. And a considerable rate, if this last announcement is any indication. 

 

I'd bet that, within 2 years, Firstborn will be mostly gone. The replacement units already exist. 

 

This shift to legends for bikes and speeders did not come about because of new releases. The units that replace them have been out for a long while. Same goes for Tacticals, Devastators, Dreadnoughts, etc.

 

 

Sure. So the constructive thing to contemplate is what primaris models can the retired classic models count as.

[Berzul]

27 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

Sure. So the constructive thing to contemplate is what primaris models can the retired classic models count as.

 

Well:

 

Tacticals with Bolters can count as Intercessors and Heavy Intercessors.

 

Tacticals with Plasma Guns can count as Hellblasters.

 

Tacticals with Flamers can count as those new flamer guys.

 

Centurions an count as Agressors.

 

Multi Melta Devastators can count as Erradicators.

 

Missile Launcher Devastators can count as Desolators.

 

Scouts can count as Infiltrators, Incursors, Eliminators, and Reivers.

 

Attack Bikes can count as ATVs

 

Bikers can count as Outriders

 

Assault Marines without Jump Packs can count as Assault Intercessors

 

Assault Marines with Jump Packs armed with Plasma or Storm Bolters could work as Inceptors.

 

Landspeeders can work as Storm Speeders

 

Rhinos and Razorbacks can count as Impulsors

 

Thunderfire Cannons can count as those Servoturrets.

 

Just to suggest a few proxy options

 

 

[Blindhamster]

21 minutes ago, Berzul said:

Tacticals with Bolters can count as Intercessors and Heavy Intercessors.

If it were me, I'd absolutely do this, because then my firstborn would be much tougher than regular intercessors.

Personally, I think Tactical squads sell so well its likely to get a straight update similar to sternguard and by the look of it, assault marines too though

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Berzul said:

 

Well:

 

Tacticals with Bolters can count as Intercessors and Heavy Intercessors.

 

Tacticals with Plasma Guns can count as Hellblasters.

 

Tacticals with Flamers can count as those new flamer guys.

 

Centurions an count as Agressors.

 

Multi Melta Devastators can count as Erradicators.

 

Missile Launcher Devastators can count as Desolators.

 

Scouts can count as Infiltrators, Incursors, Eliminators, and Reivers.

 

Attack Bikes can count as ATVs

 

Bikers can count as Outriders

 

Assault Marines without Jump Packs can count as Assault Intercessors

 

Assault Marines with Jump Packs armed with Plasma or Storm Bolters could work as Inceptors.

 

Landspeeders can work as Storm Speeders

 

Rhinos and Razorbacks can count as Impulsors

 

Thunderfire Cannons can count as those Servoturrets.

 

Just to suggest a few proxy options

 

 

Saying tacticals count as anything but intercessors is major stretch.

[Berzul]

1 minute ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Saying tacticals count as anything but intercessors is major stretch.

 

Ill stretch it as far as GW stretched the truth when they said that Firstborn were not going to be replaced.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

If it were me, I'd absolutely do this, because then my firstborn would be much tougher than regular intercessors.

Personally, I think Tactical squads sell so well its likely to get a straight update similar to sternguard and by the look of it, assault marines too though

As much as I like my HIs I really am not a fan of normal intercessors. They do absolutely nothing well or better than another unit of similar size, composition or points.

firepower? HIs beat them easily.

melee? Assault intercessors beat them easily again

durability/staying power? HIs

flexibility? The AGL and sgt melee weapons provide some flexibility but not much.

 

i hope the intercessor kit just gets updated to include a few special and heavy options ALONGSIDE the AGL.

 

so 5x man unit can take 1 AGL & 1 special/hvy

10x man unit can take 1 AGL, 1 special, 1 hvy.

7 minutes ago, Berzul said:

 

Ill stretch it as far as GW stretched the truth when they said that Firstborn were not going to be replaced.

When did they say that?

[Captain Idaho]

The count as idea just doesn't work. Folk might have 3 Tactical squads each with 3 Flamers, but those flamer Marines don't make a single squad of Pyreblaster.

 

4 Grav Cannon Marines represent what exactly? And the Sergeant goes where?

 

Land Speeders with an Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter... so what Storm Speeder is that?

 

It just doesn't really work out.

[Berzul]

16 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

When did they say that?

 

For six years, when they would insist that Primaris were reinforcements and not replacements. Which lasted right up until a few days ago when they became the replacements they always were.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

The recent news made me feel this thread is relevant again.

 

I can’t believe that anyone at this point can believe FB (mini marine sculpts)won’t be completely phased out at some point.

O.o

 

What exactly does that look like to you that legacy marines are completely phased out? How has the fact that we got new terminators not completely turned this on its head? Oh I know, because GW said they could be Primaris too? Give me a break.. that doesn’t automatically make all terminators Primaris marines now..

 

LRs aren’t going anywhere.. some of the chapter specific stuff isn’t going anywhere… let’s not be ridiculous and consider all the implications of legacy marines being “completely phased out” actually would mean. 

[Evil Eye]

2 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Can you show me on a doll where the primaris marines hurt you?

I was actually in the moderate-to-positive camp to begin with, as I thought the idea of Marines+ as an addition to the setting was interesting, and could present some cool scenarios going forward if done well. And to be fair, a lot of the Primaris models taken on their own are perfectly fine; the standard Intercessor is a decent design, and had it just been a new pattern of armour introduced alongside a rescale of the Marine range I'd be fine with it. Hell, if Primaris had still been a thing but weren't completely replacing Firstborn I'd have been fine with it too. More options is always good.

 

The problem is that they've taken iconic Space Marine units and gotten rid of them, often for replacements that just aren't as good. The Redemptor just has none of the timeless charm of the classic Castraferrum Dreadnought, and whilst Intercessors themselves aren't inherently bad, the fact that they're effectively replacing Tacticals altogether, combined with their annoyingly uniform/copy-and-paste nature lacking the interesting "patchwork" nature of Firstborn Tacticals is just lame. And worse still, a lot of Primaris are just different enough from their Firstborn counterparts that you can't just run one as the other. It's not like, say, the RT Rhino chassis, which was around for ages before being replaced in 2004- even though the new Rhino looked quite different and was bigger than its predecessor, it was a clear evolution of the classic Rhino with more modern tooling, and was similar enough that you could probably run the two alongside each other with no major issues. Plus, the RT Rhino was very very old by that point, being a pioneer-model in plastic 28mm scaled vehicles with some quite substantial shortcomings, and the 2004(?) model is indisputably an upgrade in terms of actual quality. Even then, the Mk. 1 Rhino is enough of a classic that it sort of endures as the Deimos Rhino. A lot of models that are being outright deleted are A: perfectly servicable (and recent!) models and B: aren't being replaced with updated evolutions of the same model, but completely different things that aren't even the same thing in-universe. Like Outriders aren't just new Bikers with a slightly tweaked design, they're explicitly different things that are TOTALLY RADICAL AND NEW and are intended to make your old bikers irrelevant and obsolete even within the context of the game.

 

No other faction has gotten this. Even when new models have come out that just aren't as good as their predecessors (Maugan Ra and Lelith Hesperax spring to mind) the worst you can say is "I don't like this new model, I'll convert it or use the old one". Chaos Space Marines got a replacement kit and even though the aesthetic is very different, they're still Chaos Marines- people replace their old ones because they want to and not because they feel they have to. Even putting aside the scale, the newer Chaos Marine models are just nicer than the older ones. Eldar players got a great new kit for Guardians, and it was awesome after years of being stuck with the kinda ancient 3E kit (some of those faces...). Any other faction getting a new kit can be excited with the possibility of a cool new model either to add to the roster or to update an existing one. Marine players, however, are faced with the dreadful anticipation of "What models are going to be made obsolete next?". Because with the exception of Terminators, which might I remind you were universally well-liked and praised upon their reveal, Marines haven't gotten any true updates since Primaris became a thing. They've gotten similar-but-not-quite replacements to classic units that, again, are just different enough that your old models are outright rendered obsolete but not different enough that they really needed to exist. Like, if the new Land Speeders were aesthetically tweaked but identically armed compared to the old ones (even with new optional weapons)? That'd be fine, people who wanted new ones could have them and people happy with Old Faithful were OK. If it was different enough that it wasn't even fulfilling remotely the same role and would have been a welcome addition even if Primaris weren't a thing? That'd be OK too, they could coexist. What we get instead is the worst of both worlds; it fills the same slot as the old one, for sure, but the two aren't actually interchangeable.

 

The worst part of all? GW blatantly lied about this. From the beginning way back in, what, 2016? We were assured Primaris were a new concept intended to expand the setting of 40K and introduce new concepts and aesthetics, the idea being that Marines would be even more flexible than ever before. The fluff even went out of its way to highlight how Firstborn often had the advantage of experience, skill and flexibility over their newly-geneforged comrades, with Primaris Marines even looking up (ironically worded there) to their Firstborn forebears for their battlefield wisdom and centuries of service. But that turned out to be false. Slowly, Firstborn units started being replaced. First it was characters, who crossed the Rubicon Primaris and got new models of varying quality. I'd argue even this would have been fine if the original models were still available or at least supported, if you wanted to play them in a pre-Rift scenario where the Primaris didn't exist yet. Then they started replacing the generic HQ models. Then they did it to actual units. And then they started doing what they said they weren't going to and discontinued their forebears. The last round of retirements even including a pathetically dishonest message that "You can still make a non-Primaris army if you want! Look at these 3 or so kits that are safe for now!". The expansion to the setting, which I intitially welcomed, has left the setting smaller. Instead of having more options than ever for making a unique Marine army, you have less choice than ever before. Even something as small as being able to give a Dreadnought a missile launcher and assault cannon will soon be a thing of the past, because the assault cannon analogue and the missile launcher are on two different incompatible units that can't have options swapped between them. And if there's a Primaris unit you like, but you want it to ride in a Rhino or Razorback? Too bad, sucker, you get an Impulsor or you're on foot!

 

The fact that people (not naming anyone) then tell us "Why would you be mad about that, the new models are sooooo much better! GW was right to get rid of old Marines and I hope they finish the job!" is downright insulting too; ESPECIALLY considering these same people are often the same who were claiming "You'll always be able to use your Rhinos, don't spread misinformation! GW would NEVER render your army literally unplayable!". Frankly, it smacks of the sort of media propaganda you see defending increasingly draconian encroachments on personal freedoms ("The government isn't coming for your knives! Only for dangerous weapons!" "Oh, they're only coming for kitchen knives over a certain length! Nobody will actually be affected by this!" "Why do you NEED a kitchen knife anyway? Are you planning on stabbing someone?" "Pre-prepared Safety Meals distributed by the government are much better than homemade food anyway! What kind of backwards grog still cooks?") to the point I sometimes wonder if these individuals (again not naming anyone) are actually on a payroll to astroturf.

 

There was no need to do this. GW could have rescaled Marines without doing this. They could have still introduced Primaris without doing this. The current trajectory for the Marine line is utterly indefensible and embodies everything wrong with modern GW. It is literally "You WILL retire your Dreadnoughts, you WILL buy the Desolators, you WILL follow the instructions, and you WILL be happy!" to the point I wonder if James Workshop is actually Klaus Schwab (or however that barrow-wight's name is spelt) in a very convincing disguise. Again, no other faction has gotten this in 40K. Eldar still have Falcons. Tau still have Crisis Suits. Necrons still have Monoliths. Orks still have Deff Dredds. So why in the name of the Emperor should Space Marines give up their Dreadnoughts? It was unnecessary and pointless.

 

Marines were never my first army but I've always liked them and thought they were cool. They're a fundamental part of the setting; even as someone who chose Tyranids as his army without a second thought way back in 2009 when I got into 40K, I always loved the way they looked. The idea of my Carnifex going toe to toe with an ancient Ultramarine hero entombed within the mighty bulk of a Dreadnought was awe-inspiringly cool, regardless of whether he was laid low by the Xenos' horrific talons or if he triumphed over the monster and slew it with cannon and fist. Seeing that key part of what I got into this amazing setting for erased and replaced with something just not as good and being told it's a good thing? That sucks. The fact I didn't start the hobby with Marines and get thoroughly invested in them is the only reason I'm not angrier. So I'll tell you where the Primaris Marines hurt me- my soul.

 

I wonder if Primaris players will be as graceful when the models they love are replaced with something new and their collections are rendered obsolete as they expect Firstborn lovers to be at it happening to them. Because it will happen. GW has realized they can do this, and they'll do it again. The frog has been boiled. Your models- models you spent your money on and lavished care and attention on- are disposable tokens now. So the moment GW decides the Repulsor just isn't selling great anymore and replaces it with the Dismayer, which costs twice as much and looks far, far worse, and renders large chunks of your army unplayable, remember- you chose this. You defended this. There is no going back, This is your future.

[Berzul]

55 minutes ago, Bloody Legionnaire said:

O.o

 

What exactly does that look like to you that legacy marines are completely phased out? How has the fact that we got new terminators not completely turned this on its head? Oh I know, because GW said they could be Primaris too? Give me a break.. that doesn’t automatically make all terminators Primaris marines now..

 

LRs aren’t going anywhere.. some of the chapter specific stuff isn’t going anywhere… let’s not be ridiculous and consider all the implications of legacy marines being “completely phased out” actually would mean. 

 

This sounds exactly how it did, six years ago, when Intercessors came out, and some of us called it for what it was (the beginning of a protracted process, leading inevitably to the replacement of the army at large).

 

People would say that X or Y things weren't going anyway and that nothing looked like it could lead to this outcome.

 

Yet, here we are.

 

Oh, but its just bikes and speeders, not the entire army...

 

... As a Dark Angels player, having 1/3rd of my army moved to Legends is a BIG deal.

 

Let's not be naive and think that the Firstborn are not marked for obsolescence in its entirety. While it will take a few more years, do not kid yourselves. The end point of this whole ordeal is the exact same.

[Blindhamster]

18 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

I wonder if Primaris players will be as graceful when the models they love are replaced with something new and their collections are rendered obsolete as they expect Firstborn lovers to be at it happening to them.

 

I have 20 lovingly made and converted veteran intercessors. They dont have a unit anymore. I could "counts as" them as something else, but that's no different from what is being expected of firstborn players, and I've not complained about it outside of noting it's a thing that happened and means those models just live on a shelf. It's not an entire collection - it's true. But my entire collection wont be made obsolete anyway, because if tactical and intercessors get merged at some point and the current setup for intercessors stops being a thing, I'll tweak my models again and get on with it.

Just like I did when other units I've loved as a blood angel player over the years have flat out vanished or dramatically changed in terms of options.

 

So yes, I'll be as graceful then as I have been in the past and have been about the current changes to things in my army. When my suppressors stop being a thing, probably sooner rather than later, I'll similarly accept that and move on too.

 

I don't begrudge other people being upset about things, but don't assume everyone acts the same way - to me I know I can absolutely make my guys with some form of boltgun count as some other guy with a boltgun in the future. Chances are, if a cool new squad of guys with boltguns come out, I'll get some of those too. Maybe I'll even sell my current army and excitedly start a new project again, like I did last time.

[Blindhamster]

3 minutes ago, Berzul said:

Let's not be naive and think that the Firstborn are not marked for obsolescence in its entirety. While it will take a few more years, do not kid yourselves. The end point of this whole ordeal is the exact same.

I think it depends on how you look at it... if the rumours of scouts and assault squads are correct, I genuinely think the remaining "primaris" squads will be more 1:1 replacements and that in turn means those things will be easier to keep using I would definitely say there was at least a bit of a course correction with the advent of the leviathan set, if the rumours for assault marines and scouts turn out to be true, that'll be 4 units in fairly quick succession that are direct replacements, therefore not invalidating existing collections in terms of those units (or at least, no moreso than any other kit update has done).

 

totally unrelated, but the terminators, are absolutely borrowing things from primaris designs, they're very faithful to classic indomitus terminators but they do have the primaris style abdomens rather than classic terminator cables, they also have shows shaped more like gravis marines (admittedly, also a thing seen on devastators in the past) and their greaves are actually slightly curved/convex in shape, like gravis greaves. They're unmistakably indomitus terminators, but the models for sure aren't 1:1 replacements of the classic terminators. They're also scaled perfectly for primaris rather than firstborn. It doesn't really matter of course, just an observation from painting mine today.

[Evil Eye]

5 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

 

*Snip*

So you are OK with GW pulling the rug from under you in order to sell the Next Big Thing. This kind of complacency and apathy is exactly the kind of attitude that allows GW to get away with their increasingly anti-consumer behaviour. Because people allow it. I'd argue that's possibly even worse than getting angry about it in the way you told us not to when it happened to us. Don't ask questions, just consume product and get excited for next product, after all.

 

As I said- the frog has been boiled.

[Lord_Ikka]

Will Firstborn disappear from 40k- its likely, though probably not until the next edition will they full be phased out for Legends. GW still needs to make Primaris versions of chapter-specific units for DA/BA/SW, as well as replace some units that fill roles that the Primaris line doesn't have like jump pack equipped assault squads. Those units need to be designed and readied for production before the Firstborn will go away completely. There may also be some Firstborn vehicles that continue to be used in 40k such as the Land Raider, but for the most part Firstborn will be gone from 40k.

Will Firstborn disappear completely- no. Horus Heresy is now considered a core game by GW, so they will continue to make products and support that game with new releases. Is that what Firstborn 40k players want, no, but it is what is going to happen. If you want to use your Firstborn, you will have to convert them to HH. 

 

GW is a business. Their purpose is to make money to continue its existence, pay its employees, and make profit for the shareholders. They are not beholden to their customers- the customers are the ones who have the onus to make their displeasure known by either buying the product or not. Given the profits GW has seen since they introduced the Primaris in 2016, the overall customer base has clearly embraced the Primaris line and is fine with it- regardless of what various vocal minorities on the internet have said, the Primaris line is a success. I can't comment one way or the other on GW's decision to make the Primaris, as I see both sides of the argument (I've got 6k of Firstborn DA and 4K of Primaris SM) and I understand the frustration that both sides have with the other. I personally didn't enjoy the way Primaris were introduced, it was a misfire and could have been done in a much more elegant way, but after making so many Primaris I have come to really like the actual models and the miniatures are some of the best work GW has done in modernizing and streamlining both the sprues and sculpts. 

 

Frankly, I don't think @Evil Eye's prediction of a new SM line replacing the Primaris will come to pass. Not because GW wouldn't do it, but because I think GW will have to completely re-think and re-work its business model in the next ten years. I can buy a good 3d printer for less than $200 now, and they are only going to get cheaper and better as the years go by. GW cannot function the same way it always has in regards to being a production company- if a regular player can buy a printer plus $40 of resin, and then print off an entire army with little to no personal effort, then GW has lost the war against printers. They are going to have to switch to being an idea, rules, and experience company, rather than a production company- by which I mean they need to produce 3d printer files for license, make a comprehensive set of rules (that they can charge a subscription fee to access) that are regularly updated and refined, and actively start working on a tournament circuit that is larger and makes them money. GW is falling behind its competition already, with games like X-wing, MCP, and WarMachine already have free online rules, and producers like Privateer Press switching over to mass 3d printing for their production rather than move to injection molding like GW. The next decade in the tabletop wargaming industry will be really interesting...

[Blindhamster]

20 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

So you are OK with GW pulling the rug from under you in order to sell the Next Big Thing. This kind of complacency and apathy is exactly the kind of attitude that allows GW to get away with their increasingly anti-consumer behaviour. Because people allow it. I'd argue that's possibly even worse than getting angry about it in the way you told us not to when it happened to us. Don't ask questions, just consume product and get excited for next product, after all.

Funny how it was "grace" when you're suggesting people won't do it, but if someone says "well actually, yeah I did" suddenly its "complacency" and "apathy" lol... I can choose to buy, or not buy. In my case, when the heresy marines came out, I disliked them, so I didn't buy them. I'm actually pretty fussy with my miniature purchasing, I buy what I like, and don't buy what I don't like.

 

I *like* primaris, so I happily bought them. Some of my stuff isn't usable for now, but that happens literally every edition either as an actual case of the unit no longer exists, or it fundamentally changes so I need to change models or it simply stops being worth using on the tabletop so serves as a display piece regardless.

I got the *enjoyment* of painting my models, regardless of what GW does, I'll still have the models, they'll still be on display and I'll still be proud of them, and chances are, I'll be able to adjust them for gaming purposes if I want to. For some models I may do that, for others... I won't.

Frankly, most space marine players have FAR more space marines than they can ever use in a game anyway (outside of perhaps something akin to old school apocolypse), at least from the space marine players I know (myself included), so in many cases they have huge piles of unbuilt stuff and built stuff they simply don't use. The coming situation is absolutely a little different in that there's likely to be a wider scale need to convert things a bit to keep them legal in the "counts as" scenario, as Idaho mentioned, chances are people won't have exactly 5 flamer marines or exactly 5 rocket launcher marines... they probably have 2 or 3 of each etc. Not an ideal situation there to be sure, but hopefully large parts of collections can be salvaged for play if desired, or they can be kept as cool display things.

 

But as already mentioned, I do still think a few of the remaining sets will get 1:1 (or closer to 1:1) replacements anyway, so I don't actually believe the issue with tacticals will happen, it continues to be a top seller, I think GW will instead make a new version, it'll *probably* be a tacticus equipped set, but at least it wont invalidate peoples tactical squads (much as I'm hopefull peoples terminators, assault marines, scouts and sternguard will end up all still being valid minus perhaps a couple of weapon swaps here and there).
 

edit

Lord Ikka is probably right about GW's future. They're going to need to dramatically shift in their approach because more and more people just print armies and the technology to do it is getting cheaper, better and easier to use.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Berzul said:

 

For six years, when they would insist that Primaris were reinforcements and not replacements. Which lasted right up until a few days ago when they became the replacements they always were.

Again, when and where did they ever actually say that?

[Blindhamster]

9 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Again, when and where did they ever actually say that?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/primaris-space-marines-faq-may15gw-homepage-post-2/

 

Quote

Are all my current Space Marine miniatures redundant now?

No way! Primaris Space Marines do not replace regular (if a superhuman killing machine can be described as ‘regular’) Space Marines. These guys have a few extra genetic enhancements, thanks to Belisarius Cawl, and serve as additional reinforcements in the Adeptus Astartes arsenal, not replacements.

 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

1 hour ago, Berzul said:

 

This sounds exactly how it did, six years ago, when Intercessors came out, and some of us called it for what it was (the beginning of a protracted process, leading inevitably to the replacement of the army at large).

 

People would say that X or Y things weren't going anyway and that nothing looked like it could lead to this outcome.

 

Yet, here we are.

 

Oh, but its just bikes and speeders, not the entire army...

 

... As a Dark Angels player, having 1/3rd of my army moved to Legends is a BIG deal.

 

Let's not be naive and think that the Firstborn are not marked for obsolescence in its entirety. While it will take a few more years, do not kid yourselves. The end point of this whole ordeal is the exact same.

 

So confirmation bias for what *you* thought has been the goal this entire time? 

Nah..

The oldest SM kits in GWs inventory were retired, with the exception of assault marines and the hunter/stalker. There's plenty of reasons for assault marines and the H/S to go away that I really don't think I need to get into. 

You're making a massive jump..