Finial of Nemrodesh 1st: Overhyped?

[MrKoolPants]

Hey all! I wanted to get the community's opinion on the new Relic, Finial of the Nemrodesh 1st.

 

For a refresher, the relic makes ASTRA MILITARUM CORE units within 6" ignore negative modifiers on ranged attack hit rolls, and bypasses any rules that allow a model to ignore wounds.

 

There was a lot of hype about this relic when the leaks/codex first dropped. However, I think the utility of this relic is limited by who it can affect. The only CORE units that you'll realistically have next to a Command Squad are Heavy Weapon Squads, Troops choices of various varieties, and maybe Sentinels?

 

To me, none of these units are especially "standout" choices in the book. Their damage output seems limited, even with some of the buffs from Leontus/Creed/Orders. The types of units that you would want the Finial to help target (terminators, elite infantry, and hard-to-kill HQs with ignores wounds abilities) aren't easily damaged by our likely CORE choices. 

 

So my question: what is the use-case for Finial? Which commonly seen units in the meta should we be targeting with the Finial buff? Which CORE units are you trying to buff? How do you position those units to deliver damage? 

 

The best thing I could think of would be to bum-rush Cadian Shock Troops with plasma/melta and maybe some sentinels with plasma cannons. Basically shove them down the throat of the dangerous unit you're hoping to destroy, and maybe take some board presence in the process. 
 

EDIT: whoopsie! FOBs aren’t CORE! 

Edited December 22, 2022 by LtColKool

[mertbl]

FOB aren't core. 

 

It triggers off the unit so you have a huge area of effect. Between spanning back to within 6 and/or the command squad spread out as well. I used it the other day and it makes FRFSRF very useable, infantry squads moving and firing heavy weapons, ignoring dense, moving and firing heavy weapon squads. I didn't even use the no FNP ability on it and it was well worth the price of admission. It feels powerful enough to get knocked down to once per game or from an aura to a pick a friendly unit and they can....

 

Advancing and shooting double melta shock troops squads that ignore the penalty is another good one. Go 12" with double melta and shoot on 4+, or do it with kasrkin and hit on 3+s. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by mertbl

[MrKoolPants]

1 hour ago, mertbl said:

Advancing and shooting double melta shock troops squads that ignore the penalty is another good one. Go 12" with double melta and shoot on 4+, or do it with kasrkin and hit on 3+s. 

 

That is a good perspective. I'm especially interested in playing a board-control game with Swift as the Wind and Recon Operators, giving one or two squads "Remain Vigilant!" to screen out deepstrikers. Giving those Cadian Shock Troops the option to advance and still pump out some meaningful weight-of-fire is intriguing.

 

I'll be curious to see how aggressively people will dump fire into our Troops choices. Especially if there are Sentinels and Kasrkin jumping around in the mid- and back- field. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Personally the relic vox just seems like the best choice at the moment, I can’t really imagine taking anything else right now.

[sairence]

Kasrkin and Scions are your damage dealers that can make use of it, and they use it very well. I don't rate any of the regular troops for damage potential, so I don't think it's needed there. 

 

But with those specialist units can be deadly. Ignoring FNPs and especially phase caps completely neuters the playstyle of certain targets, like C'Tan and Ghaz. So just by bringing it you dictate how your opponent can approach you, even if you don't actually end up using its effect directly.

 

It's a good relic, but definitely depends on the rest of your list, if you get any use out of it.

[MrKoolPants]

6 hours ago, sairence said:

Kasrkin and Scions are your damage dealers that can make use of it, and they use it very well…

Do you imagine keeping a unit of Kasrkin or Scions with your Command Squads? I always conceive of those elites choices as being deployed more aggressively on the board, away from the HQ choices. 

[sairence]

I kinda envisage them as second and third wave troops. Some infantry runs out as first wave and then specialists follow up to massacre whatever killed the first wave. At a recent tournament I ran 3 scion squads around a scion command squad with the finial and theing range rapid fire wl-trait and they did work. Didn't live long when my opponent targetted them, but by keeping them at range/hidden until needed, they usually made big dents.

 

So I see them more as counter-attackers, not as leading the charge. Kasrkin are deadlier, but Scions have a lot of flexibility because you can easily give them Commissar orders from the same command squad.

[TCC]

3 hours ago, sairence said:

I kinda envisage them as second and third wave troops. Some infantry runs out as first wave and then specialists follow up to massacre whatever killed the first wave. At a recent tournament I ran 3 scion squads around a scion command squad with the finial and theing range rapid fire wl-trait and they did work. Didn't live long when my opponent targetted them, but by keeping them at range/hidden until needed, they usually made big dents.

 

So I see them more as counter-attackers, not as leading the charge. Kasrkin are deadlier, but Scions have a lot of flexibility because you can easily give them Commissar orders from the same command squad.

I find this also, great at a counter, I like to run a super heavy with transport capacity, and it’s perfect to protect one or two squads for a turn or two. Found Kasrkin as a counter very effective so far and better than a strike force that uses up loads of CP, moves out of secondary scoring coherency  (loose VP to command) and does not complete a fully affective manoeuvre (ie not out right killing a unit).