Azrael

[ValourousHeart]

From the Community Page.  Merry Christmas!

 

 

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

This is pleasing news.

Not quite how I wanted, but pretty damned good.

I may make a couple of tweaks once he is mine.

[Raziel-TX]

Great mini and true to the original.  Great as is or as a conversion piece for sure. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think his new model is quite amazing. With how closely matched it is with the original, it's hard to find any fault with it.

 

The smashed Fallen helm on the base is a nice touch. I'd love to see them also make it to the table.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yeah, the base being so big will lead to some really cool ideas. And the Fallen noggin is a great visual of the Hunt.

 

It looks about 50mm, any confirmation on that yet?

 

I'd like to pose the sword arm up a bit more vertical like OG Azzy, look into alternate heads to replace the CAD blob, maybe swap out the gun for a/the Bullpup version and shave the bottom edge of the robe so it doesn't look so chunky.

 

I'm loving the Watcher options and the OG Lion Helm is perfect. I normally don't do back banners but this one is also very good and may get kept.

 

The Tilt shield is great but I am a little disappointed the left pauldron doesn't have the OG pattern DA icon. Keeping the spiked skulls on the backpack is awesome too.

 

Looking forward to some rules changes, once he gets the Primaris keyword he won't be able to share a LandRaider with a Deathwing retinue. I'm gonna put on a cynical hat and assume that simply won't happen, but here's hoping nonetheless. 

 

EDIT: Lolz, I just looked, Primaris can't even ride in a Spartan. Might need to Counts As this new sculpt as OG Azzy.

 

Also, it's already Boxing Day here in the Antipodes but Merry Birthday to our northern and western Frater.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Interrogator Stobz
Formatting errors

[Chaplain Raeven]

On first glance it looked like a disappointing model. The more I look at it though , the more I'm starting to like the model.

 

I guess the bad first impression is because of the obvious sickle-mag sticking out of the bolter, ruining the silhouette. OG Azzy's bolter was one of the coolest guns you could find on a model, it only needed some more realistic dimensions on the back. They've done him dirty with this one, that oversized wonky combi-pistol will have to go. 

 

The rest is a faithfull recreation of the OG model that we love, so no real comments on that. Banner, sword, pistol, powerpack,... it's a lovely recreation of the original details. I like that the Watcher is on the same base now, moving that lad around the board was a pain.

 

The new bare head is an improvement as well, not as gaunt as the OG one and the cowl/hood is a nice touch.

 

Don't like the lion on the brow of his helmet, it's a bit too much. That bit will either get trimmed of, replaced with the Company Master's helmet or the Lion's helmet.

[bevulf]

I had the same feelings as Chaplain Raeven at the begining but I  started to like the model. The only thing that look a little awkward to me is the banner, Original miniature has enormous banner that shrunks already tiny azrael even more (with which i never had a problem btw). The banner on the new azzy is too small for my taste. every time i look at him I have a feeling that it should be bigger to match the bulkier size of the miniature.

 

 

I will definietely buy the model - maybe I will swap the new banner with the original one and probably will make a separate base for the Watcher. All in all it was worth waiting !

Edited December 26, 2022 by bevulf

[FarFromSam]

It's been said,  but my only complaint is the left Pauldron, and the silly combi bolt pistol.  Here's to hoping he gets his blanket 4++ invul to ranged and CC attacks back.  Would be a nice step to bring greenwing back.

 

Hope he's cheap and playable!  Cheers on a great holiday present. 

[JJD]

For what it’s worth the above rules were posted in news and rumours. I don’t know where they came from. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m loving the sickle mag… HAWT !

[Raziel-TX]

2 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I’m loving the sickle mag… HAWT !

Partially reminds me a bit of the FG42.  Needs a straight mag and a spike bayonet!

[ValourousHeart]

On 12/25/2022 at 12:48 PM, Interrogator Stobz said:

This is pleasing news.

Not quite how I wanted, but pretty damned good.

I may make a couple of tweaks once he is mine.

 

Yeah I've got some ideas for mine... just need to get my hands on it first to see if it'll work.

 

I hope the mention of Luthor in the video means we can expect a Luthor model at some point.

[Interrogator Stobz]

The Arch Heretic would be grand, a small Heretic Astartes Fallen force lead by him and Cypher would be fun to model up.

 

I've been thinking further about the visual issue with NewAzzy's gun, it's just left handed and that feels a bit wrong. I think I will replace it with his pistol and have a Watcher carry the Lion's Wrath.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Interrogator Stobz
weird formattiing issues on mobile

[phandaal]

Those rules are plausible. Standard buffs we expect when Primarinated.

 

Brilliant Strategist is still a dog :cuss: joke of a warlord trait but it is what it is.

[Corswain]

9 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

I think I will replace it with his pistol and have a Watcher carry the Lion's Wrath.

Now that is a great idea. 

 

I like the model a lot. I'm still not sold on Primaris but Azrael could be nice one and done project.

Slippery slope though, just start with one and all of a sudden I'm waist deep in 40K marines again.

[Bouargh]

Do we know already what is Azrael´s excuse to cross the Rubicon Primaris (if he needs one)?

I do not think I saw it anywhere.

 

I guess I am too impatient and that I will have to wait for the next update of the lore...

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Bouargh said:

Do we know already what is Azrael´s excuse to cross the Rubicon Primaris (if he needs one)?

 

Nothing mentioned yet. The articles simply says:

 

Quote

Abaddon and Vashtorr’s plan to destroy the Imperium has caught the Dark Angels in its jaws. Still recovering from crossing the Rubicon Primaris, Azrael has taken up the legendary Sword of Secrets and his master-crafted combi-plasma, The Lion’s Wrath.

 

The "still recovering" bit makes it sound like this is a recent development. Whether it was a result of injury like Ragnar, other circumstances like Mephiston or elective like Calgar is not indicated yet.

[ValourousHeart]

On 12/26/2022 at 1:56 PM, Interrogator Stobz said:

The Arch Heretic would be grand, a small Heretic Astartes Fallen force lead by him and Cypher would be fun to model up.

 

I've been thinking further about the visual issue with NewAzzy's gun, it's just left handed and that feels a bit wrong. I think I will replace it with his pistol and have a Watcher carry the Lion's Wrath.

 

I was wondering why people were complaining about the design.  They are mad because it is left handed.  LOL 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 4:04 PM, phandaal said:

Those rules are plausible. Standard buffs we expect when Primarinated.

 

Brilliant Strategist is still a dog joke of a warlord trait but it is what it is.

 

Personally I like it. I use it on my Talonmaster who is running with a couple of squadrons of Tornados or Typhoons.  With Tactical Appraisal that means I can keep most of my Speeders moving faster and hammering my opponent for the first 3 turns.  If I didn't take Brilliant Strategist, I'd have to rely on Adaptive Strategy which would be an extra 4CP.  Even with Brilliant Strategist and not having to use Adaptive Strategy I'm still running out of CP very fast.

 

On 12/27/2022 at 2:17 AM, Bouargh said:

Do we know already what is Azrael´s excuse to cross the Rubicon Primaris (if he needs one)?

I do not think I saw it anywhere.

 

I guess I am too impatient and that I will have to wait for the next update of the lore...

 

It is definitely going to be related to Luthor's escape.  One idea, Luthor escaped while Azrael was crossing the Rubicon, but I don't think that is what they are going with.

 

The reason I think they are going to use, is Azrael hasn't told anyone about Luthor escape, no one else even knew Luthor was still alive let alone captured.  Azrael feels personally responsible because Luthor escaped on his watch.  And he feels that he is going to need any advantage he can get in order to recapture Luthor.  Luthor is no slouch, he trained the Lion, and survived the final duel with the Lion.  Even crossing the Rubicon might not be enough for Azrael to beat Luthor.

 

As a side note the story of the Dark Angels mirror the Horus Heresy, and this fight with Azrael and Luthor will likely play out similar to Sanguinius fight with Horus.  Which could be a nice lead up to the Lion returning.  The only thing I think will play out differently is that the Lion will chose to save Azrael instead of killing Luthor.

 

They aren't going to refresh Azrael's model and finally get around to making a Luthor model just to kill of both characters in the next codex.

 

EDIT - This is pure speculation on my part.  But guilt and shame are common enough themes with Dark Angels, so not that far fetched. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by ValourousHeart

[phandaal]

3 hours ago, ValourousHeart said:

If I didn't take Brilliant Strategist, I'd have to rely on Adaptive Strategy which would be an extra 4CP.  Even with Brilliant Strategist and not having to use Adaptive Strategy I'm still running out of CP very fast.

 

It has its uses for sure. Have also seen people use it in their Deathwatch lists for decent effect.

 

It just offends me that this warlord trait which is supposed to encapsulate the strategic brilliance of The Lion himself essentially boils down to pointing at one nearby unit and telling them keep doing whatever they are doing for just a little bit longer. Only one, anybody next to them is on their own! And also do not even think about assaulting any sooner!

 

If it were something like select any visible unit and put them in any doctrine, or a bubble of putting nearby units into the doctrine of your choice, that would be more like it.

 

3 hours ago, ValourousHeart said:

As a side note the story of the Dark Angels mirror the Horus Heresy, and this fight with Azrael and Luthor will likely play out similar to Sanguinius fight with Horus.  Which could be a nice lead up to the Lion returning.  The only thing I think will play out differently is that the Lion will chose to save Azrael instead of killing Luthor.

 

Great point that does not get brought up that often. The Lion even had his own "Great Crusade" with Luther before the Emperor found Caliban. Luther's duel with the Lion is a mirror of the fight between Horus and the Emperor, even down to the Lion holding back at just the wrong time and getting wrecked for it.

[ValourousHeart]

13 hours ago, phandaal said:

It just offends me that this warlord trait which is supposed to encapsulate the strategic brilliance of The Lion himself essentially boils down to pointing at one nearby unit and telling them keep doing whatever they are doing for just a little bit longer. Only one, anybody next to them is on their own! And also do not even think about assaulting any sooner!

 

If it were something like select any visible unit and put them in any doctrine, or a bubble of putting nearby units into the doctrine of your choice, that would be more like it.

 

Well that is certainly one way to look at it.  I look at it a little bit differently.

 

I don't take the name of the WLT to seriously, I'm more concerned with the effect.  I know this will sound arrogant, but the strategic brilliance is how I use all of the tools at my disposal, not just the one WLT my character has.

 

For example I switched up what Relic I give my Talonmaster.  At first I used to take the Heavenfall Blade, so he could fight like Samael, but I really didn't want the Talonmaster in assault.  Then I switched to Arbiter's Gaze, but it really only increases his ability to overwatch, you only ever get to overwatch with a single unit and I still don't want him in assault.  So now I give him the Eye of the Unseen because half of the units that I'm going to be charged by are characters.  If they charge my Talonmaster with a character that character has to fight last, and then I can NOPE out of combat with Swift Strike.  And instead of their character smashing my Talonmaster, at most they can burn 1CP for a 1/6 chance to cause 1MW.  I like my odds.

 

The brilliant part of that relic change is that now my Talonmaster rarely gets charged.  Got to love that psychological effect.

 

But the strategic brilliance of that particular WLT is that Dark Angels are able to manipulate which doctrine the army is in more so than any other chapter.  All marines get access to Adaptive Strategy stratagem.  Certain chapters get a second stratagem like Tactical Appraisal.  But only Dark Angels get a WLT with that ability.

[Isual]

I hope I don't hijack this topic too much, if you mods think so please split it up.

 

I think there is much potential in the arrival of the primaris story especially regarding Azrael.

There are obvious parallels between the arrival of the primaris on the rock and the arrival of the firstborn at Caliban. In both cases there was a immens powerful being bringing more powerful warriors (bigger, tougher, more shiny tech) to an established structure who have to deal with that. Some could convert to the new state, new initiates were made by the new tech, but a difference remained.
A big difference to back than is that the power dynamics are reversed. As compared to back then when the firstborn basically took over this time the "old guard" is still in power.

 

Azrael has to balance both interest groups to avoid a split when the old members of the order, or the chapter in this case, felt left behind. It would be interesting to see if he can avoid the mistakes of his gene father who, lets face it, wasn't really known for his social skills.

 

The cherry on the top would in my opinion be if the Lion would somehow returning. That would put Azrael basically in the same role as Luthor during the great Crusade.

 

But that's just my to cents on this topic.

[The Emperors Champion22]

7 hours ago, Isual said:

I hope I don't hijack this topic too much, if you mods think so please split it up.

 

I think there is much potential in the arrival of the primaris story especially regarding Azrael.

There are obvious parallels between the arrival of the primaris on the rock and the arrival of the firstborn at Caliban. In both cases there was a immens powerful being bringing more powerful warriors (bigger, tougher, more shiny tech) to an established structure who have to deal with that. Some could convert to the new state, new initiates were made by the new tech, but a difference remained.
A big difference to back than is that the power dynamics are reversed. As compared to back then when the firstborn basically took over this time the "old guard" is still in power.

 

Azrael has to balance both interest groups to avoid a split when the old members of the order, or the chapter in this case, felt left behind. It would be interesting to see if he can avoid the mistakes of his gene father who, lets face it, wasn't really known for his social skills.

 

The cherry on the top would in my opinion be if the Lion would somehow returning. That would put Azrael basically in the same role as Luthor during the great Crusade.

 

But that's just my to cents on this topic.

This would be pretty sick, we will hopefully see azrael succeed where luther failed and azrael will stay loyal to the lion and the imperium. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think Cypher is noted saying Azrael would make a good Seneschal, so I think he might be more like Corswain than Luther.

[Lion El Jason]

The warlord trait was good...  Until we could manipulate Doctrines anyway.  It lost 75% of its value in AoO.

IMO just don't pay for it.  Since warlords don't get free traits, just not buying them is fine, you can even buy one for another character instead.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

On 1/14/2023 at 5:59 AM, The Emperors Champion22 said:

This would be pretty sick, we will hopefully see azrael succeed where luther failed and azrael will stay loyal to the lion and the imperium. 

I really like this, I think it has so much potential for cool storytelling