Exodus and Relentless

[MDops]

Hey all.

 

I was thinking about Exodus and the Instrument. As I don't have my book on me and can't currently confirm this.

 

RAW  would be that relentless allows him to be "stationary" for the heavy weapon during the shooting phase even if it had moved. Deadly aim would then be always active on him as he counts as having been stationary.

 

I'm assuming that this isn't RAI but is there something I have missed?

 

Edit: checked when I got home and it looks like I remembered the wording right. Still feels like he shouldn't be able to have it active all the time

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by MDops
Further detail

[Xenith]

May be a case of poor rules writing. I think RAI is that he doesn't get Brutal as you say, however relentless has been indeed changed to say they count as stationary, and not just that they can fire RF/Heavy weapons after moving and still assault. Maybe they did intend it that way! It would make sense - in another thread, I noted that Exodus s largely outclassed as a sniper by a 95pt vigilator by virtue of rending 2+ and marked for death. Brutal 2 being always on would make him maybe worth his points. 

[MDops]

Cheers. Thought it was just me being a bit of a power gamer.

[LameBeard]

This is a funny one. Rule as intended, if they meant for it to be always on, they could have just added it to the  instrument profile. So it must be trying to override the “relentless” - ie only applying when truly stationary. And I think that is a legitimate reading of the “Relentless” rule, despite the “counting as stationary” parenthetical remark, because of the context of the heavy rule.

[MDops]

5 hours ago, LameBeard said:

This is a funny one. Rule as intended, if they meant for it to be always on, they could have just added it to the  instrument profile. So it must be trying to override the “relentless” - ie only applying when truly stationary. And I think that is a legitimate reading of the “Relentless” rule, despite the “counting as stationary” parenthetical remark, because of the context of the heavy rule.

 

Which really doesn't shed much light on this, as the shot in question is heavy.

 

I do agree that the intent would be for relentless to be overridden but how they have gone about it might have been a bit weird and could be clarified or agreed with by my opponent.

[Valkyrion]

I think the intent is that Relentless is overridden.  You can move and shoot your nice gun without penalty, but if you stay totally still then you get an additional benefit. There's an additional charging caveat added to the rule to specifically override the Relentless aspect of charging after shooting. 

I don't think 'counts as stationary' and 'has not moved' is the same thing in this context. If Deadly Aim said 'if Exodus remained stationary in a turn...' but it says '...has not moved.'

 

Imagine a debuff that is cast on Exodus that says 'this model must move 6" directly backwards at the start of the movement phase' - being under the effects of that spell would be overridden by Relentless, because counts as stationary, but would not be overridden by Deadly Aim because it has moved. I don't know if there are any real examples of such a thing out in the wild, but that would be an instance where counts as stationary is not the same as has not moved. 

 

But it might well be I'm over thinking the semantics of it. 

[LameBeard]

I think this is the kind of overthinking that GW rules writers usually put into their justifications as to why it was ok as it was - but really, it just could have been better first time. 
 

If we can’t rely on “stationary” meaning “not moving” then we are in trouble. What I was trying to say was that relentless is *really* trying to say “count as stationary for this specific purpose in this specific context” which does not extend to the “deadly aim” context. 

[MichaelCarmine]

To quote myself

28 minutes ago, MichaelCarmine said:

No it doesn't.

Relentless only refers to weapon types, not special rules. So it only has an effect on his Weapon. He can shoot his Heavy profile, despite having moved in the previous movement phase without a negative modifier to his BS. His Special Rule "Assassin's Eye" allows him that too and more. 

 

But for the Special Rule to trigger, he has to not move in the Movement phase. 

 

The fact that he has Relentless, despite having Assassin's eye, comes from the fact, that every Praetor and Centurion has the Relentless rule, no matter if they need it, or not.

[MDops]

This makes a lot more sense.

 

I was working under the assumption that Relentless affected the whole of the profile including the special rules rather than having them being seperate entities