The potential of kill team in 40k - the surface is only just scratched.

[jimbo1701]

Greetings all. I am primarily a 40k collector / painter with the occasional game. I played shadow war Armageddon when it first came out but have never dipped into playing kill team, though I plan to next year. 
 

I have, however, collected much of the series as I love the terrain and the kill teams themselves. I really love how in this latest iteration of the game the use of seasons and pitting an expansion vs a new kit in all but the first set of the season has allowed them to expand the range of niche models. I feel they have only begun to scratch the surface of this though. 
 

In terms of brand new kits, the ork kommandos, sisters novitiates (more on them in a second), kasrkin and navy breachers strike me as stand alone releases which were never meant to be further built upon in either 40k or kill team. The Krieg, kroot, chaos guard and corsairs strike me as dipping their toes into future expansions for 40k to make those armies more stand alone. For example, expanding corsairs to be more like harlequins in size and releasing more plastic kroot units / Krieg ordnance and heavy weapon teams. Chaos guard have limitless potential as their own faction. 

 

Moving on to also consider upgrade kit models, they tend to have a real mixed bag of application to 40k, with some porting almost the entire kit across to 40k in terms of usefulness and others bringing next to no wargear across (novitiates a good example here) to 40k. I would certainly like them to expand upon this making that wargear usable in game in 40k. 
 

What do others think? Is kill team being used as a testbed to gauge popularity for things to expand further in 40k? 

[Sherrypie]

Factionwise, probably. Smaller games allow the designers much more room to flesh out little snippets of background and in turn gives the suits at the top some feedback on how those things sell.

 

As for wargear, no. 40k is a bloated mess that needs pruning and heavier abstraction if it is to work within its current paradigm. It could go back to more interesting wargear ala Chaos 3.5 dex, but that would require a complete rules overhaul. KT and 40k are completely separate entities as far as this testing goes.

[jimbo1701]

Also, how good would it be if the last kill team of the season turns out to be neo genestealers vs neo terminators to coincide with the launch of 10th Ed. 

[sitnam]

On 1/1/2023 at 5:03 AM, jimbo1701 said:

Also, how good would it be if the last kill team of the season turns out to be neo genestealers vs neo terminators to coincide with the launch of 10th Ed. 

In my opinion, not very. Terminators and Genestealers are popular kits on their own, which imo would have no trouble selling it updated.  The beauty of 2021 KT is the weird and esoteric teams we have gotten, which would feel wasteful to put Terminators vs Genestealers in a box.

 

I do think they should add in more White Dwarf or WarCom expansions, which would be a great place for both the aforementioned teams

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

On 12/31/2022 at 12:05 PM, jimbo1701 said:

What do others think? Is kill team being used as a testbed to gauge popularity for things to expand further in 40k? 

 

I don't think KT2021 is being used for testbed. The ruleset between the games are different. IMO I think this GW answer to other skrimish games.

 

I never got the chance to play that Shadow war Armegaddon game. I thought it would have been cool to play it since it uses Necornmunda type rules and 40k figures.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Shadow War Armeggeddon was mostly the 40K rules of the time modified slightly for single unit combat - so, in it was kind of like the previous edition of kill team, except without as many rules changes.  That said, like Necromunda there were stat increases (and decreases from injuries) to the models, which was like Necromunda, but from my recollection I don't feel like they brought much to the table.  As well, like Necromunda it gave you credits with which you could upgrade your models with better weapons and kits.  That said, the upgrade options were very limited so it had a different "feel" for me than Necromunda.  Still a decent enough game, though its hard cap of 10 models hurt my imperial guard team, which really wasn't able to become elite enough to keep up with the numbers of my friend's orks (orks could have double the normal cap of other teams) - having everyone in carapace did not make up for only having 1/2 as many guys as my opponent.

 

To me, the last edition kill team felt more Necromunda-like, as while models didn't get stat increases and couldn't improve their kit, the upgrades your specialists got were meaningful and powerful and your model's xp was used to calculate your total team power just like it was in 1st edition Necromunda. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui

[schoon]

No, I'm not seeing KT being used as a test bed for 40K.

 

I do see it being used to indulge the GW design team in creating minor forces from the universe that might never otherwise get a Codex.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:47 AM, schoon said:

No, I'm not seeing KT being used as a test bed for 40K.

 

I do see it being used to indulge the GW design team in creating minor forces from the universe that might never otherwise get a Codex.

It seems like a bit of an even split between more esoteric factions that won’t get a codex and straight ports from 40k.  Kill teams  they’ve released that already play in 40k:

 

chaos marines 

tau pathfinders 

kroot

traitor guard

Krieg

Phobos

Necrons 

Kasrkin

 

the factions with no obvious codex are in the minority 

 

Rogue traders

imperial navy

gellerpox

sister novitiates (don’t these have profiles for 40k sister though too?)

 

Anyways, when I went through the 2.0 releases it surprised me just how many are just sub-factions of codex armies.  Which I don’t mind personally, since they all released with lots of cool kits options either way.  

[2PlusEasy]

Measurement shapes and unnecessary terminologies aside, I'm quite positive towards Kil Team: if it's design philosophy was to shrink 40k conflicts down to a small scale that's over and done with in 45 minutes, it's achieved it.

 

I'm in agreement that Kill Team, similar to Warcry, is a platform to explore the 40k setting and the minor factions that exist at the microscale: Arbites, Naval breachers, Eldar Corsairs and Kroot kinbands, many of which have existed for longer then many GW players have been alive are a welcome sight on the table once again. I also feel that certain 40k factions by their lore such as Harlequins, Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults actually fit much better at the Kill Team scale then at the 40k scale and hope to see this developed upon further.

 

I'm also glad that Kill Team explores the 40k microscale in a different way to it's internal competitor: Necromunda. To summarise the difference, Necromunda is a highly customisable sandbox within an enclosed setting, whereas Kill Team can explore the open scope of the 40k universe but in a closed way.

 

However, I also think Kill Team by it's design will never catch the full length and breadth of what's possible with the 40k setting. Its fun and fast, but also very restrictive to fit within the confines of it's design philosophy. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but Kill Team is not a RPG: it's a tabletop wargame with a sprinkling of narrative elements if you choose to use them. Often you get the illusion of choice, because kill teams are not as customisable as they first appear.

 

The only official GW ruleset that is currently in active development that can truly capture the full essence of 40k at the microscale is Necromunda. In this respect, as much as I have a nostalgic soft spot for Necromunda, I was disappointed that it wasn't a modern, official version of Inq28. That would have truly opened the 40k universe up to what was possible.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by 2PlusEasy

[Brother Tyler]

I don't think that Kill Team is so much a test bed (for potential expansion of the Warhammer 40,000 game) as it is an inroad for things (primarily factions) that may be introduced into WH40K. In all likelihood Games Workshop's plan is to introduce these factions to the main game, but the smaller scale of Kill Team allows for that game to be the proper introduction point because it allows for smaller scale releases. This is a much safer option for those factions whose potential popularity is unknown, allowing a single kit to satisfy the needs of Kill Team instead of having to create a whole viable range (such as had to be done with the Leagues of Votann - but bringing the Squats back was probably much more of a sure thing than things like the Imperial Navy Breachers). As we've seen, GW has also used Kill Team as a way to expand existing ranges (re: Adepta Sororitas Novitiates) and to update lines (re: Kasrkin, Kroot).

 

Kill Team also provides a mechanism for GW to give us a style of variation that isn't common in the WH40K game. The Voidscarred Corsairs are a great example, with the unit being able to take disparate types of operatives that normally wouldn't be shoehorned into a single unit in the WH40K game. This unit cascaded into WH40K, however, upon its introduction into that game. My assumption is that the availability of a single box type drove that decision, but it might change later. I wouldn't be surprised if further expansion of the Aeldari Corsairs in WH40K in later editions gives us more homogenous units and pulls some of the character-like operatives out, with the Voidscarred being a sort of HQ retinue or Elites unit in that game. I could similarly see this for the other niche units that have appeared recently, such as the Imperial Navy Breachers, the Adeptus Arbites, and the Hand of the Archon (though I imagine that will be a coherent unit if it is ever introduced into Codex: Drukhari).

 

What I'm curious about is how GW is going to continue introducing factions to the Kill Team game. The Ynnari are noticeably absent, unless players proxy with Aeldari or Drukhari units. I could easily see a set of Ynnari faction rules that is much more like the Voidscarred Corsairs, allowing for a representation of a collection of operative types from across the various Aeldari factions. The Inquisition and Black Templars are also missing (the latter being sort of possible using standard Adeptus Astartes rules, but their signature Crusader Squad is not there). Another thing that's noticeably absent is sub-faction rules. GW has made the rules forward-compatible, including keywords such as <CHAPTER>, <ORDER>, <LEGION>, and <CRAFTWORLD>.

 

Something else I expect to see is a bit more expansion of factions, but giving us alternatives to the get-you-by factions that appear in the Compendium. We've already seen GW expand the Adepta Sororitas options with the Novitiates, the Adeptus Astartes with the Intercessors, the Harlequins with the Void Dancer Troupe, etc. I fully expect to see similar expansions for other factions. In this, it might be possible for Asuryani players to choose a kill team that allows Howling Banshees or Striking Scorpions, or the aforementioned Crusader Squad for the Black Templars, or other variations on a theme. Each of these variations will have their own options and limitations, but a range of kill teams for a larger faction will give players a bit more variety.

 

And I fully expect GW to give us a Horus Heresy version of Kill Team. That right there is a money printing machine.