[2000] Night Lords Terror Assault

[SyNidus]

 

Hey all,

So new year, new army list. I've had about 2 games of HH2.0 and based on my experiences, i've built this list and i'm hoping to get some feedback from you fine folks here.

Tactics/Notes:

- Delegatus and Command Squad are line, meant to bully other line units off objectives. (i.e. big tacticals)

- The Librarian will go with the Raptors and be one of the main hammer units. The Libby can almost auto-pin a unit with his psychic, making them easy pickings for my raptors

- The terror squad will infiltrate (usually near a heavy support squad or near a threat which can deal with augury scanners)

- The Recons act as objective grabbers and are mainly there to pin/snipe out sgts.

- In my community, we interpret ATFM as vehicles counting as 10 models, hence why i've opted for the sabre squadron. This is my main anti-tank, together with the xiphon.

I know this isn't the most competitive, but i'm looking to tune it up while remaining within the theme.
 

What do you guys reckon?

 

 

[Brother_Angelus]

I've not found vigilators to be all that relevant with a couple of recon squads already in the list. Personally I wouldn't bother with one.

 

Recons could use Augury Scanners. The ability to Intercept for free and potentially snipe out a deep striker's sgt or character support, and pin them, is fantastic. 

 

Raptors probably go better with chainblades rather than glaives. With a 6+ Breach and Shred it's advantageous to have both more attacks and a worse to-wound roll. But I understand well enough the available models are a restriction. 

 

I reckon the terror squad and raptors could lose a couple of bodies and still be impactful enough. Would give you a bit more to spend elsewhere. 

 

I wouldn't personally put that many points into Sabres with their low armour values and short range. I like them as a unit, but as a cheap flanker with AC and HB.

 

I'd want a Heavy Support choice of some kind. A scorpius or two, a heavy support squad, even a predator or vindi destructor squadron. Especially with prey sight to reach out in the night without penalty.

[Carnivore]

Welcome to the Night Lords, brother! Always good to see another VIII Legion list. I have a couple thoughts here that you are more than welcome to go with or ignore. Sole purpose is to try and help. 
 

First off, you don’t really have any units that are going to benefit from the A Talent For Murder bonus we get from outnumbering the foe. Jump packs help your numbers by virtue of bulky, but you still don’t have any large units to ensure you get that bonus off.

 

Secondly, you have very little in the way of weapons that can threaten the hard stuff the enemy will bring to the table. Your Sabres and your Xiphon are basically your only threat to Dreadnoughts, Tanks, or Terminators, and those are light vehicles that are easily taken out.
 

You have no Contemptor of your own. Contemptor Dreads rule this edition, and one tooled-out and well-placed enemy Dread will literally end this whole list by itself with some good roles of the dice. 
 

You need some stronger weaponry on your characters and sergeants. SX2 weapons are essential for us because they can hurt the big stuff. While the Headsman’s Axe is awesomely fluffy and at first glance seems to fit that description and at initiative no less, it bounces off of Terminator Armour and Dreads. Your Delegatus needs a Thunder Hammer. Same point value, and he now can threaten or kill anything short of a Primarch on the board. A power fist on your Standard Bearer and your Terror Squad Sergeant would help a lot too.

 

I put a list together that I tried to keep true to your original while covering some of your weaknesses. Let me know what you think.

 

Spoiler

Delegatus 165

Warlord (Flaymaster), Rite of War (Terror Assault), Thunder hammer, Trophies of Judgement, Prey Sight, Lord of Murder, Warhawk jump pack

 

Retinue Squad

• 3 Command Squad 195

Standard Bearer (Power Fist, Combat Shield)

3x Pair of lightning claws, 3× minor combi-weapon (grenade), Warhawk jump packs

 

Librarian 160

force weapon (staff), combat shield, psychic hood, Lord of Murder, Warhawk jump pack

 

Terror Squad 275

Headsman (artificer armour, power fist), 9 Executioners, 5× volkite charger, 4× rotor cannon, Prey Sight

 

Night Raptor Squad 300

Huntmaster (artificer armour, pair of lightning claws), 6 Night Raptors, 4× chainblade, power weapon (maul), Warhawk jump pack

 

Reconnaissance Squad 150

Reconnaissance Sergeant (Nemesis bolter), 4 Reconnaissance Marines, 4× Nemesis bolter, Prey Sight

 

Reconnaissance Squad 150

Reconnaissance Sergeant (Nemesis bolter), 4 Reconnaissance Marines, 4× Nemesis bolter, Prey Sight

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon 15

Prey Sight

• Contemptor Dreadnought 195

Gravis power fist (heavy flamer), Gravis chainfist (heavy flamer)

 

Sabre Strike Tank Squadron 25

Prey Sight

• Sabre Strike Tank 125

centreline mounted neutron blaster, hull-mounted multi-melta, 2× sabre missile

• Sabre Strike Tank 125

centreline mounted neutron blaster, hull-mounted multi-melta, 2× sabre missile

 

Xiphon Pattern Interceptor 120

Prey Sight

 

Legiones Astartes

Night Lords, Traitor

Edited January 7, 2023 by Carnivore

[SkimaskMohawk]

IMO vigilators play fine with recons as long as they're not actually with the recons. Put him in a different unit and give yourself another opportunity to pin.

 

The librarian is fantastic, but idk if you need 3 HQ at 2000. Maybe opt for either the vigilator or the librarian, since they both kinda do the same job in forcing pinning tests.

 

Recons definitely like auguries. Pinning a unit for two rounds is amazing, though the unit does get expensive with both night vision and augury.

 

Chainglaives are the worst of the ap3 weapons that you can give them; lightning claws>blade>glaive. Maybe split the units into 2x 5 for better utility? Also ditch the heads man's axe, there's no reason to spend 20 points on it compared to 10 points for double claw: 3+ with 5++ isn't a statline that needs to be worried about, and you have recons to snipe apothecaries.

 

Terror Marines should be avoided at 2000. They're super fragile and infiltrate tends to lead to aggressive deployment and then taking losses even sooner. They might have some big damage potential, but they need a lot of care to not be a complete liability. You can get a lot for their 312 points.

 

Sabres are interesting; they're very fast and can ram people down the board which is hilarious. Maybe split them up too to dilute enemy target priority.

 

I'm going to disagree with carnivore on needing to leverage atfm. It's kind of...a bonus? The fear and extended night of terror assault is basically the legion trait; its been for more impactful in all my games than atfm, especially when it has counter synergy with breaching and shred.

 

Tldr: drop the terrors and either the Libby or vigilator, split the raptors and tanks, spend the ~400 extra points on a couple of contemptors or one and a good heavy support slot. 

[Carnivore]

Honestly, if there is any discrepancy between what I said and SkimaskMohawk said, go with his advice. I have no problem admitting his knowledge is far more comprehensive and well-rounded in practice, and I humbly defer to him. The only points I would double down on are adding at least one Contemptor kitted out for close combat and a Thunder Hammer on your HQ, and a few Power Fists where you can fit them.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I mean what works for me in list building might not be applicable. There might be more or less terrain, your opponents might load up different sets of units, or they might play legions that are more resistant to leadership stuff and require a big hammer of atfm buffed things. Getting multiple views with different suggestions is more helpful overall. 

 

But ya, definitely want a contemptor in there and 0 headsmans axes.

[SyNidus]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. That's alot to take on board, but I've reworked the list as follows.

 

 

 

So I've taken on board the feedback. I think it is quite an interesting list, though I do have some concerns about not having a terror squad to infiltrate forward and cause disruption. That being said, I do feel like this is a more sol

One thing i was thinking about is the choice between running the Heavy support squad or swapping it out for another contemptor with lascannon. At least I'll have more threats moving up the board together with the raptors.

What do you guys think?

Edited January 8, 2023 by SyNidus

[SkimaskMohawk]

It looks like a solid 2000!

 

A second contemptor is probably the better bet, but it might be too good in 2000, where there isn't enough volume of fire to deal with them while being pinned by recons and tely Libby.

 

I'm really tempted to tell you to just run 5 man raptors and use the saved 50 points to give them all melee weapons and a melta. But they're fine as they are now, as long as you count as the glaives as blades. 

 

And about the terror squad: practically they don't cause much disruption. You can't charge out of infiltrate, if you're in range to volkite you're within 24", pinning kicks in after return fire, and overwatch similarly shreds them. If you really want some disruption you can deepstrike one of the raptors for a nice little fear+night enhanced pinning test. 

[SyNidus]

13 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

It looks like a solid 2000!

 

A second contemptor is probably the better bet, but it might be too good in 2000, where there isn't enough volume of fire to deal with them while being pinned by recons and tely Libby.

 

I'm really tempted to tell you to just run 5 man raptors and use the saved 50 points to give them all melee weapons and a melta. But they're fine as they are now, as long as you count as the glaives as blades. 

 

And about the terror squad: practically they don't cause much disruption. You can't charge out of infiltrate, if you're in range to volkite you're within 24", pinning kicks in after return fire, and overwatch similarly shreds them. If you really want some disruption you can deepstrike one of the raptors for a nice little fear+night enhanced pinning test. 

Amazing, cheers for the feedback.

As for the latest incarnation of the list, I've still up in the air about the following options:

Option 1: Heavy Support Squad - 7 man - 7 Lascannons, Augury Scanner, Preysight - 225
(i.e. don't change the list)

Option 2: Contemptor Dread - Gravis Lascannon, Gravis PFist w Gravgun, Helical Array - 220
(I don't have to pay for Preysight as this would be in the same talon as the current contemptor)

Option 3: Javelin Squadron - 2 Speeders - 2x Two Lascannons & Multimelta, Preysight - 225
(More guns & mobility, but on a weaker platform than Option 2)

Option 4: Terror Squad - 5 man - 4 Rotorcannons, Sgt w Arti Armour, Chainblade, Bolt Pistol & Rotorcannon, Preysight - Rhino w Combi-Bolter - 210
(Different purpose from Options 1-3. The purpose of the Terror Squad is to infiltrate forward, get in position to pin 1 unit and also apply additional LD debuffs to units that will be targeted by the Recon squads. In my first game of HH2.0, I managed to infiltrate my terror squad in a rhino with rotorcannons close to my opponent's heavy support squad. I disembarked, moved up and was in position to force him to take a pinning test at -3 LD (Night Fight, Fear, Shell Shock). Hence why i was thinking of whether I would need something like that. Because even with the snipers, at the most, in turn 1 I'm only going to be able to force pinning tests at -1 LD.)


Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and feedback, it does help me to put a stronger force on the table!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well javelins are amazing with either rockets or las. I'd tend to say split them into individual units and resquadron the Sabres since the javelins output is better and is boosted by extra flexibility. But at that point your list would be getting uncomfortably similar to the non primarch part of my 2500, and I'm a bit worried about encouraging what's essentially a tournament list. 

 

Dreadnought is good, being in a Talon kinda lessens its impact, so a good choice if you're worried about too many dreads.

 

Terror Marines are just...a hard sell imo. Most of the night lords special units are, honestly. A few rotors in a rhino is probably their best build, though mathematically you only need 3 to average a failed 3+ save. I just feel bad paying for night vision on them, and also a bit irked that theyre best at being pinning dudes; everything can pin in night lords lol. Contekar, atrementar and raptors all deepstrike with a fear aura. A vigilator can snipe out the seargent for effectively the same -3 LD modifier. Tely librarian forces a pinning test at an average of -6. Curze can super-run and bring a -3 aura to really set up the pinning. 

[SyNidus]

Thanks again for the discussion Skimask. I think if i had gone for double contemptors that might've been closer to a tournament list. In my meta, we're used to bringing tough but thematic armies, and I believe after all the crafting, we might have hit upon just such a list - tough, but thematic. 

 

 

So I've made a few modifications since and whittled away at some extraneous wargear options.

I dropped my praetor down to a Delegatus, 1 Raptor, the Havoc Launchers from my Sabres, and the Helical array from the contemptor so that I can bring in a Chaplain. The Delegatus and the Chaplain will join the 7 man raptor squad to maximize the buffs, while the Librarian will join the 6 man raptor squad as he would be able to use his powers to pin the target that they intend to charge.

I know that Chaplain will be good addition, but part of me still likes having the utility of a Vigilator. Sure the Recon squads can do some sniping, but the Vigilator is almost guaranteed to snipe out a sgt each turn and force a pinning test with shell shock. I'll have to test it out between the Vigilator and the Chaplain. But I'd be grateful to pick your brain and get your thoughts regarding which you think is better.

 

[Beerhammer]

Why the Xiphon if you do not mind me asking? Most items that can hurt a flying unit will be able to avoid the night fighting rules. 

[SyNidus]

43 minutes ago, Beerhammer said:

Why the Xiphon if you do not mind me asking? Most items that can hurt a flying unit will be able to avoid the night fighting rules. 

Great question!

1) I like the model

2) As mentioned above, in my meta, we interpret a vehicle as counting as 10 models for ATFM. So my Xiphon would get that bonus shooting at units of less than 10 models.

3) Points-wise, it brings a solid amount of anti-armour/anti-heavy/anti-flyer shots. 
4) It's also cheap enough (points wise) that I can put it into reserve without handicapping myself.

5) Usually I can pin the things that avoid night fighting, so it's a risk I don't mind.