What are your favourite Compulsory Troops choices

[Xenith]

As it says on the tin, I'm still just getting into heresy and am looking at expanding my army, mostly in the troops section. I have 2x10 man tac squads, however they seem to be just decent for sitting on an objective and trying to stay alive for ~110pts. Adding extra stuff puts them into the 130 - 150pt range, where we also have assault and breacher squads.

 

So what troops choices do you rely on in games, just tacticals for cheapness, or despoilers to run up the table? reachers for endurance or assaults for mobility? Or a mix of all?

 

In a 3k point game, what would you be taking?

 

Edit: I changed the etitle from "What are your favourite LINE Troops choices" to What are your favourite Compulsory Troops choices as that better defines what I'm after. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Xenith

[Dont-Be-Haten]

It really depends on if you're here for Rule of Cool, Fluff, or Competitiveness 

 

For example a 20 man blob of despoilers that infiltrates with an Apothecary and Chaplain for stubborn leadership 10 is pretty cool.

 

World eaters are the same way, free chain axes across the board makes for some cool options.

 

Veterans in a Pride of the Legion are very valuable. WS 5 with 2 wounds and a 6+++/4+++ with apothecaries is a very cool unit.

 

A recon squad tax is a good way to fit in a Storm Eagle if your fast attack slots are full, like mine are.

 

The same goes for a command squad. Though pricey, WS5, 2 wounds with a 2+ save and line is probably one of my favorite units. Especially a squad full of Raven's Talons and jump packs.

[Dwango]

I ran 2 x 20 man tacs and 1 x 20 man despoiler in a 3k game a few weeks ago, all foot slogging. I was testing out the stormwing RoW so they had centurions in as well as apothecaries. They did alright. 2 squads took a lot of punishment before they died but the last tac remained pretty much untouched and managed to kill a few elite units. It's easier to justify adding in the extras in full size squads. 

 

I have to say I've not found line units to be overly useful in the games I've played. I've only played 1 game where it was useful and won me the game. Games tend to just revolve around killing the most units. I do play dark angels though and some of their RoW give away VPs if not completed so my focus has been on them. 

 

I think there will be some benefits for a mixture. Assault units could be fun late game but they can get expensive and die just as easily as regular tacs. Depends on the mission. Generally I either go full size or 10 man in a Rhino. I have seen 20 Despoilers, apoth and a HQ in a spartan do a lot of work. Expensive though. 

 

I have seen some new mission cards picked up at Warhammer World that do involve line units much more. I'd imagine my list building will change somewhat. 

[Xenith]

Thanks guys - @Dont-Be-Haten I was looking to discuss LINE units in the Troop slot, so ruling out scouts and support squads, but I forgot about recon who are also decent! 

 

Basically do you expect troops to do anything, and what trops do you take to do that in a semi-competitive environment. I'm kind of leaning away from tacs, as they just get bolters, while despoilers can run in T1, then I get up to 3 power weapons in a 10 man unit. 15 Tac marines might be a decent investment for not too many points, and hard enough to chew through with a goodly amount of shots with Fury when reacting. 

 

I'm also looking at Assault marines, 2ppm more than despoilers, after the 25pt tax for the unit, but much more mobile, can deepstrike and get +1/2 to charge. 

 

What might also be cool is a 10 man breacher unit with chargers, however then we're getting into the ~160 - 200pt range for 10 marines.

 

Are tacticals good by virtue of being so cheap as you cannot really kit them out, so you can get 20 bodies for 200pts? 

[Brother_Angelus]

I can't foresee playing a game without 2 x 5 Recons with Nemesis Bolters and Augury Scanner (plus Prey Sight because NL).

 

They're incredibly strong for picking out characters, chipping wounds from dreadnoughts, pinning other Line units, weakening and/or pinning Deepstrikers, and camping home territory objectives.

[Xenith]

Also a decent buy for ~290pts - what do you take as compulsory troops?

[Dwango]

@Xenith what legion are you running? That might depend on whats best to take. IW tac marines with shrapnel bolters are pretty decent. 

 

Generally I don't expect them to do much other than absorb some shooting. I must admit I've not used assault marines as yet. With the rules for aug scanners I've not looked at deepstriking outflanking etc. as I feel they'll just get shot off the board as soon as they arrive. 

[Lord Marshal]

I've also come around to Recons.

 

At worst, they're sat on an objective and freeing up a Tactical Squad to do something else. At best, they're sat on an objective and firing their Nemesis Bolters at things all game while being relatively safe from anything except counter-sniper fire and Deep Strikers. On a few occasions their Rending has finished off a wounded Contemptor, even.

 

 

[Brother_Angelus]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

Also a decent buy for ~290pts - what do you take as compulsory troops?

So far, just tacticals in 10s with rhino, or 20s on foot with Apothecary. Like many I'm hanging out for plastic renditions of the other options before giving them a try.

[Xenith]

1 hour ago, Dwango said:

what legion are you running?

 

I'll be using Alpha Legion. I'm looking at expanding my troops as my tacs have been very all or nothing in recent games and I have a few more Mk6 bodies, so considering making them despoilers or assault (or both with magnets) or getting a breacher squad.

 

 

[suxdavide]

1x20 tacticals (either infiltrated or dark channeled depending on the legion)

1x10 tacticals on rhino

These two choices are quite always my auto-include :)

[SkimaskMohawk]

It wildly depends on legion, rite, and possibly special character.

 

The basic tac and despoilers are really cheap units. No base unit tax and and a low point per model can let you flood the board with them. They have pretty good output against other 3+ T4 units but drop off considerably against the more elite things. Some legions can elevate the despoilers to be a really point efficient horde like World Eaters, while Death Guard can make a mobile wall of Tacs and always Fury. The primarchs that give increases to leadership can make them into extreme tarpits, especially on objectives, allowing you to make hammer and anvil style lists.

 

Breachers are also great tarpits, though you pay a lot for the Heavy and the 5++ and also lose the base damage of Fury. This makes taking more dudes in a tac squad generally more appealing. Until you see the stone gauntlet and the 3x 4+ save. They also have a 5 point base unit tax.

 

Assault marines are faster, killier despoilers much like the breaches are tankier tacs. You do only pay 2 points over the despoilers for the jump packs (at the cost of Spite), so the same legions that can leverage despoilers also get a big boost out of assault marines. Blood Angels really transform this unit when they take sanguinius, since the boost to WS5 is very significant. They also have a 25 point base unit tax, but the 12 per model still let them off being rather cheap.

 

Breaches aside, you could flood the board with units as they're all pretty cheap; the biggest limiting factors being money to model ratio and modeling time.

 

And that's not talking about the rites that swap other things into the compulsory slot lol.

 

 

 

[Misterduch]

depends on ROW & legions.

 

As salamanders I am predisposed to run Flamer support squads and pyroclasts as my line troops.

 

If we are talking the base line troop choices then Assault squads are the best, but I like to mix it up a bit with breachers and tacticals

Edited January 5, 2023 by Misterduch

[Gorgoff]

Iron Warriors can give their tacticools pinning boltguns and their Sergeants haywire beatsticks which makes them quite useful. I always used like two squads in rhinos but that doesn't work very well anymore so I am slowly switching to 3 x 15 dudes on foot. Sometimes I will put an Apothecarius in each also equipped with a Haywire Bonk but this is expansive in €, time and points. 

[bushman101]

Here's another shout out for Recon.

Aside from sniping and pinning, they babysit my backline stuff.

They also are a prime spot for a Nuncio Vox, which helps scatters for template weapons

Edited January 5, 2023 by bushman101
Stupid spellcheck....

[Dont-Be-Haten]

@Xenith my bad.

 

With that in mind, tacticals are superior to despoilers by always having the opportunity to shoot 2-3 shots in every phase of your opponent's turn and holding fast dueing your own turn. When looking at points breaks a 10 man tac squad with an augury scanner, powerfist sergeant with AA runs 135 points. That gives you the ability to shoot 30 shots in rapid-fire range multiple times in each phase, which is better than tying up another troop unit. Despoilers want to be in melee, the problem comes in with the absurd amount of WS5.

 

I've watched a 20 strong tac squad return fire & overwatch 60 bolter rounds into a contemptor and leave it on 1 wound before getting into combat. That's rare, but despoilers can't do that.

 

For my RG a 20 man blob of despoilers with Apothecary and Chaplain is meant to be a tarpit unit. A second option may be a champion to give the squad fearless, but either way you have to expend an HQ slot to optimize them.

 

Assault troops are good at harassing other troops and I enjoy my squads of them. They are fun and fluffy, but when faced against RoW with Jump Packs and scoring such as Rampagers, Assault reavers etc. They aren't optimal unfortunately.

[The_Stray_Idea]

For generic honestly nemisis recons are so good to have. I know it’s not a shared thought but 15 tacs with chain bayonets, apothecary can be a fun squad. I’m sure there’s other things that get more mileage but they look cool in blocks so they always get a vote from me. 
 

despoilers are very good especially with pinning sources in your army. Can’t go wrong with a cheap unit to bully other non specialist troops with. 

[bushman101]

Oh. It's line AND compulsory.  

I guess tac. I seem to always take them to hold the center and provide fire support to the rest of my list.

[Gorgoff]

12 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

 

 

I've watched a 20 strong tac squad return fire & overwatch 60 bolter rounds into a contemptor and leave it on 1 wound before getting into combat. That's rare, but despoilers can't do that.

Rare is, when you hit 9 shots out of 10. Your example is mind bending lucky. They should have coused one wound not 5. 

[Xenith]

4 hours ago, bushman101 said:

Oh. It's line AND compulsory. 

 

 Yes, sorry for any confusion, I changed the title a few times - basically I'm trying to decide what normal, non-ROW troops choices people are using to best effect in the game - I have 2 tac squads, and they don't often seem to do much, so I'm wanting to see if breachers are worth it, or just an equivalent points of tacs, or likewise with assault or despoiler squads!  Or a mix of all! 

[Gorgoff]

57 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

 Yes, sorry for any confusion, I changed the title a few times - basically I'm trying to decide what normal, non-ROW troops choices people are using to best effect in the game - I have 2 tac squads, and they don't often seem to do much, so I'm wanting to see if breachers are worth it, or just an equivalent points of tacs, or likewise with assault or despoiler squads!  Or a mix of all! 

It depends on several factors. Which legion?

How much terrain is on the board?

Which kind of armies in your meta?

How maxed out is the meta?

What should they do?

 

For instance I used a squad of breachers in a Termite against Word Bearers and in this game they popped up in front of a small tactical squad, killed them and secured an objective. 

Really good outcome but that was just one game. In my last game I fielded them they scattered and got shot to pieces by the Imperial Fist army. First their Termite exploded, killing 4 of them and after that they got gunned down. 

Again only one game and harely evidence for anything but "Unlucky rolls are bad". 

 

I think as an Iron Warrior they are either good on foot (around 15 with Vox and Shrapnel Bolters) or as ten men squad in a rhino which has a Shrapnel Cannons on top. Or any combination of it. They cause pinning and try to secure objectives. That's it. If they succeed in this they have done their job. 

 

Total different story if you play World Eaters and field four squads of 15 footslogging maniacs with chain axes.

Those must fight to earn their share of the glory. 

[Xenith]

8 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

It depends on several factors. Which legion? - Alpha Legion

How much terrain is on the board? - Unknown

Which kind of armies in your meta? - I'm prepping for a narrative tourney in May, so will be all sorts. 

How maxed out is the meta? Not min-max at the monent. 

What should they do? Stand on objectives (across the board), die as slowly as possible. 

 

few answers there! 

 

From wjat I'm gathering, there's no real preference for troops units, and they all have their place and are roughly balanced - e.g. 15 tactical marines are on par with 10 breachers in terms of durability (obviously with tacs being less resistant to AP3 and blasts, breachers less resistant to mass AP4+ firepower).

 

Heart of the Legion + Apoc I think will play a big role in their effectiveness. 15 tacticals on an objective with an apoc will be tough to shift. Then the apoc will also cover the breachers weakness to mass low AP fire, but they don't get the boosted FNP. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

4 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Rare is, when you hit 9 shots out of 10. Your example is mind bending lucky. They should have coused one wound not 5. 

120 shots only causing 5 wounds?

[Lord Marshal]

5 minutes ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

120 shots only causing 5 wounds?

 

I've had 40 Volkite Charger shots kill 1 Tactical Marine before.

[SkimaskMohawk]

41 minutes ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

120 shots only causing 5 wounds?

The math is 2.3 unsaved wounds on average. 262 bolt shots is what will average 5 unsaved wounds; a units output increasing by 118% is definitely not just rare.

Edited January 6, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk