LoV patrol added to an Imperial Guard Tank army

[Orpheus108]

Greetings Fellows Squats.

 

With the Ark of Omens coming out and the new GT and able to add a patrol detachment of LoV to 'Imperial' army list. 

 

This got me thinking back to the days of the squats fighting along side the ImpGuard in Epic. 

So my thinking as I love the idea of impguard tank army with a detachment of Votann fighting along side back to the days of you.

 

But...my question would be, what would you add as a patrol detachment of Votann to fight along side the Guard?

[phandaal]

It seems like Votann will lose Judgment Tokens in an allied detachment, so whatever you include is going to take a nerf.

 

From a power standpoint, you would be better off just using Guard units. Guard does shooting as good as or better than Votann, especially if Votann lose tokens, and Votann are too expensive now to be taken as allies unless they are filling a major gap.

 

From a fluff standpoint, Warriors, Pioneers, and Kâhls are the most likely candidates to join with Guard in a mercenary capacity.

[Dr. Clock]

I think I'd do this the other way; IG patrol for Votann main list... Is that a possibility, or can Votann ally to Imperial but not Imperial to Votann?

 

Either way I'm looking at IG as a source of home objective chaffe and artillery to back up a Votann advance. Current thought is probably Cadian Castellan, 2 Cadian squads, and 2 basilisks in the back. Not bad for under 500pts methinks? In headcanon this is basically PDF defenders being bailed out by Kin Mercs. 

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Focslain]

Honestly I've fielded a 50/50 votann/guard force a few times via crusade. Outside of a Kronos votann player I've haven't had much issues. My 'patrol' is a bit large.

 

Kalh
Champion
2x10 Hearthkyn
3x Pioneers
5x Hearthguard
Sagitaur

 

With a Battalion of guard that had a squadron of tanks.

 

Against the marine players I've faced the Pioneers with a scanner have made quick work of the Eliminator squads my local group tend to field. They'll be more effective now that AoC is gone.

 

Least it's nice to see my crusade list is going to be viable if I want to use it in a match game.

 

Now add Votann to a Knight group and we might have some fun.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Dr. Clock said:

I think I'd do this the other way; IG patrol for Votann main list... Is that a possibility, or can Votann ally to Imperial but not Imperial to Votann?

 

Imperium armies can take a Votann patrol, but Votann cannot take Imperial allies.

[Dr. Clock]

1 hour ago, phandaal said:

Imperium armies can take a Votann patrol, but Votann cannot take Imperial allies.

BOO!

 

That's life I guess. Thanks for the info at any rate : )

 

It's true that a Votann patrol can easily be 2/3rds or more of a list, but also that losing their special rules is a bit of a hit in that scenario.

 

Cheers,

 

E

[Orpheus108]

Why don't they get judgement tokens if they allied patrol detachment with impguard.

 

 

My other idea was imperial agents, the Inquisitor or something, tanks (don't know if they can take them, basilisk or russ) and patrol detachment of LoV. 

[Focslain]

4 hours ago, Orpheus108 said:

Why don't they get judgement tokens if they allied patrol detachment with impguard.

 

 

My other idea was imperial agents, the Inquisitor or something, tanks (don't know if they can take them, basilisk or russ) and patrol detachment of LoV. 

Being the allied detachment they don't cause the main detachment to lose their mono bonus, but they do.

 

It's the same with the Imperial Mercenaries Requisition, the Votann patrol gains Agents of the Imperium. So the guard/rogue trader/inquisitor detachment keep all thier bonuses but the votann lose their eye of judgement ability.

[phandaal]

Yep. Here is why:

 

Quote

EYE OF THE ANCESTORS

 

If every unit from your army has the VOTANN keyword and is from the same League (excluding models with the UNALIGNED keyword), then enemy units will gain Judgement tokens (to a maximum of 3) throughout the battle as follows:

 

This cuts off the main source of Judgment tokens. URSR has an Ancestral Judgment that counts every enemy unit as having 1 Judgment token. Unfortunately, there is also this requirement:

 

Quote

LEAGUE CUSTOMS

 

All <LEAGUE> units in a League Detachment will gain a League Custom. Below you will find the League Custom associated with each League, as well as the list of Established League Customs that you must use if your League does not have an associated custom. Note that each custom is made up of three rules, one of which has an ‘Ancestral Judgement’ label - this rule will only apply if every unit from your army is from the same League (excluding models with the UNALIGNED keyword).

 

The only method for adding judgment tokens that does not have the "every unit from your army is Votann" restriction specifically called out is the strategem that allows you to place tokens on a unit that kills one of your characters.

 

However, the Codex glossary states that Judgment tokens are only able to be added if your army is all Votann:

 

Quote

Judgement token: A token acquired by enemy units during a battle if every unit from your army has the VOTANN keyword and is from the same League (excluding models with the UNALIGNED keyword).

 

So yeah, Battle Brothers Votann lose out on their major core mechanic.

[Dr. Clock]

Welp, I'm going for it this weekend anyway just to get my existing Kin on the board in their current state.

 

List:

 

Cadian Castellan

3x10 Cadian squads

3x Chimera

2x Basilisk

 

Einhyr Champ

3x10 Hearthkyn (bolters and mix of heavies + medics)

5 Zerks in a Sagitaur

Hekaton

 

Not competitive, but it'll be fun playing into my buddy's Sisters at any rate, especially without AoContempt to mess up the bolter AP lol

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

[Emperor Ming]

You would loose more than judgment tokens, the guard would loose the order system as well

[Dr. Clock]

3 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

You would loose more than judgment tokens, the guard would loose the order system as well

Don't the Votann gain Agents of the Imperium? That would leave Born Soldiers and Orders intact, no?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor

[Emperor Ming]

No Sadly

 

and then even if they were, there would have to be some updated rules, current inquisition rules were only valid until this Jan2023

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

No Sadly

 

and then even if they were, there would have to be some updated rules, current inquisition rules were only valid until this Jan2023

 

Yeah, the Leagues of Votann Battle Brothers detachment is weird.

 

Their inclusion feels haphazard when things like Votann/Tau are not allowed, and taking the detachment makes both factions significantly worse.

[Orpheus108]

It's funny that they didn't do Votann/Tau as in the fluff they have meet, traded and so forth and a good reason why the tau have rail guns aswell.

 

I love the idea of votann and knights, that would be cool fun

[Focslain]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:48 AM, Dr. Clock said:

Don't the Votann gain Agents of the Imperium? That would leave Born Soldiers and Orders intact, no?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor

Only in Crusade with the Imperial Mercenaries requisition. We don't know the full extent of the Battle Brother rule in the new Ark of Omen book.

 

@Orpheus108 Once I get my hands on the new book I'll tell you how it goes.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Focslain

[Orpheus108]

Cheers Focslain, 

 

Well my main idea of them seems not to work and Votann can't take imperial patrol which is a pain but oh well. 

 

Looking at a fun game wity knights and patrol of Votann for a good interesting game