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Been toying with lists now Battlescribe has updated and the points saved for Marines works extra with the decrease in amount of Troops choices needed.

 

I'm noticing several different methods to approach list building right now...

 

The first is go for about 2 Troops choices, barebones size (as Tactical squads for me provide fire support with Hellfire shells potentiall, but the case for Infiltrators to provide teleport/deep strike denial is strong) and then use the "Sticky Objectives" rule to hold those objectives indefinitely whilst launching an attack on the opponent. Sure they might wipe you out but you'll score eh.

 

The alternative I came up with is forego Troops completely and stick firepower units on said objectives and keep them there. Relies on line of sight more but they're still going to achieve more especially if you stick to Devastator Doctrine for an extra turn.

 

I'm leaning on having the Troops choices for those objectives as they can then move up the table afterwards and try and "Stick" a centre objective too. 2 seems like a good number as 1 can die so easily. Plus that gives some more bodies who can help zone out viable deep strikers themselves.

 

What thoughts are people having towards this in the Marine Codex now?

One trick with Phobos Troops is to put them on a forward objective and then use Guerilla Tactics to stick them into reserves. You keep the objective and the troops can pop up wherever you want next turn.

 

Actually feels thematic too. Stealth onto the objective, fade away, reappear somewhere else.

That is actually a really healthy move, especially if you're in no man's land against a more stationary foe who doesn't want to move towards you.

 

Those Tau and Guardmen armies don't like assaulting you so much so taking objectives that forces them to advance towards us is a credible thing. They can't just shoot you off them.

 

I think there's still call for small numbers of Troops in Marine lists.

 

I'm feeling like the age of Intercessors outside casual casual games is over though. Why spend points on them now when they do literally the least out of the whole Troops slot.

36 minutes ago, phandaal said:

One trick with Phobos Troops is to put them on a forward objective and then use Guerilla Tactics to stick them into reserves. You keep the objective and the troops can pop up wherever you want next turn.

 

Actually feels thematic too. Stealth onto the objective, fade away, reappear somewhere else.

 

Yes this is what I do as well, and it's very powerful for scoring purposes (IE grabbing multiple quarters, and/or doing an action/retrieve Data.)

Since this was a scoring mechanism I was using in Nephilim, adding sticky objectives abilities to that unit made it even better.

 

Idaho, your first thought is what I'm currently doing. Had another game last night, and I have settled on at least one squad of Infiltrators as a MUST have unit in my lists. The 12" area denial helps shore up the lack of a third troop unit, and lets me move to 'sticky' another objective while effectively blocking out another one. 

 

So far it's been working well.

I think that the choice of Troop units depends on the army. Armies like Iron Hands and maybe Dark Angels benefit most from sitting in Devastator Doctrine so they will probably be best off with Heavy Infantry to hold Objectives. Iron Hands particularly like it as they can move and fire Heavy weapons without penalty in the Dev Doctrine. Units like Heavy Melta Eradicators will be quite scary as they stomp forward to contest midfield Objectives and vapourise anything in their way.

 

For Chapters that want to get into melee like SWs and BAs, I think there is a much better case for a unit or 2 of Troops. My Infiltrators have served me well in both armies and I think will continue to pull their weight, especially with sticky objectives. I think Grey Hunters are still strong for Wolves as they can get a metric ton of free upgrades. In the Tactical Doctrine, the AP-1 on the Bolters is relevant again with AoC gone and the free Chainswords give them the same number of attacks as Intercessors but with better AP. Blood Claws also get lots of freebies and the extra +1A on the charge.

 

Not sure about BAs. Possibly Tactical squads or Incursors. Assault Intercessors are cheap Primaris bodies and you can get volume of attacks with Red Thirst and a free Thunder Hammer on the Serg. Put them in Reserve for free and have them pop on a table side T2, ready to threaten something T3 when Savage Echoes kicks in.

I see Blood Angels as needing the fire support so Tactical squads are perhaps very important to them. Outside of Infiltrators/Incursors jumping on an objective and forcing opponents to advance towards them - the poor fools!

 

Since Ultramarines can move heavy weapons and fire freely in Tactical Doctrine, a couple heavy weapon toting Tactical squads go down a treat. They're expensive but perhaps Heavy Intercessors could also do this role as well - solid heavy Troops with Strategum support that can be more survivable (Gravis armour) and advance and fire. I'd probably go with their Executor Bolt Rifles in that case.

 

Honestly, not sure on the Assault Intercessors for Blood Angels. They can use Incursors for objective shenanigans, Infiltrators for area denial tricks and traps and if you want to spend points on Assault Intercessors you're just choosing weaker assault forces in an army that has more powerful options.

Space Wolves with a Psycher and Wulfen prefer to remain in Devasator doctrine.  The Wulfen count as the Assault Doctrine is in effect, as well as Instincts awoken.  Allowing you to grab up Victory points for kills in Devastator AND Assault Doctrine.

=][= I've split the discussion regarding the Codex Warefare and Space Wolves issue into the Rules query forum as it's taking it off topic. =][=

 

18 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

Space Wolves with a Psycher and Wulfen prefer to remain in Devasator doctrine.  The Wulfen count as the Assault Doctrine is in effect, as well as Instincts awoken.  Allowing you to grab up Victory points for kills in Devastator AND Assault Doctrine.

 

Provided this is considering correct, as determined by our team down at the Official Rules discussion forum :wink:

 

Edited by Captain Idaho
On 1/18/2023 at 2:14 PM, Captain Idaho said:

Provided this is considering correct, as determined by our team down at the Official Rules discussion forum :wink: 

 

Unfortunately, that "discussion" is really just me trying to provide the definition for Combat Doctrines, like Man Ray trying to give Patrick Star his wallet.

 

I would not suggest going to an official event with the intent to use Wulfen to score some extra loophole points, but in a casual game it may in fact be possible to argue with your opponent until they quit. That is a sort of victory in its own way.

Even though I've yet to play with them, I've been a proponent of Heavy Intercessors (heretofore called HINTs) for Iron Hands players due purely to the extra durability we provide to already more-durable-than-usual Gravis units.  While losing AoC hurts this, we do still benefit from light cover and the Psysteel power plus the Executor bolt weapons being Heavy means they now receive the whole-game benefits of Calculated Fury & DevDoc.  They can sticky backfield objectives and then shift around as needed to exploit long fire lanes with their 42" guns.

  • 2 weeks later...

I'm thinking use some infiltrating troops to stick the far-fields, and keep him too busy in the center to go after them.   I'm also thinking some flanking on his table edge might be a dirty trick with how many folks are thinking about going no-troops. 

 

And yes, I love Heavy Intercessors.  I think they were one of the biggest winners of the MFM.   That points drop on the bodies was huge. 

Edited by Tacitus

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