Wrath of the Lost (Chris Forrester)

[Nagashsnee]

About half way thru this and had some thoughts/issues, curious if others reading have similar thoughts. 

 

Spoiler

First of i love the basic plot, i like that its a reverse trip thru the rift as usually its ships trying to get to the dark imperium rather then reverse.  I like the very logical premise that many chapters who went to Baal to help have bases/assets on the other side of the rift and due to both the time dilation during the devastation but also general timeline issues normal to warhammer 40k may have had decades without news/contact.  So far so good, but then i started reading the book...

 

Look I get that the flesh tearers are an angry bunch, i know they have issues with the thirst/rage that overshadow many others chapters of the blood but, this books constant presentation of EVERY marine being ANGRY is comical.  It reminded me of the ANGRY MARINE memes and that is not a good thing. Every conversation between anyone for pretty much anything is ANGRY, everyone is 1 second away from killing everyone else. Likewise the thirst, not 1 day into the missions and already they are talking about bleeding the crew, blood rationing and if need be decimation of trained staff. Like i am sorry what?  Was this a Blood Drinkers novel at some point, and even then it would be too much on the nose. 

 

Then it hits me, 99% of the marines are primaris newborn, they did not even know they could fall to the rage when this novel starts, why are they so ANGRY?. Why is every conversation between 'brothers' always with a inner monologue of how every marine is desperately trying not to go for a gun/sword/murder? And then the captain dies, we are TOLD they are 9 sergs/lieutenant ( at least of the latter) and are then told that not one of them is fit to lead the company like at all, many because they are simply too ANGRY. But how on earth did they get promoted during indomitus? Are we to believe this utter degeneracy of anger happened post devastation? If so just wow. 

 

Are others having the same thoughts/issues arise?  Context I have read about half the book. 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[theSpirea]

I didn't have high expectations for this one, so far the author's short stories weren't anything exceptional and the majority of the previous 40K Flesh Tearers stories were garbage. All written (those I've read) by Andy Smillie and he had a weird fetish with constantly pushing the anger theme to the point it was ridiculous. Also obsession to have SMs headbutting each other all the time (mentioned multiple times within a story).

 

By the sound of it, it seems Chris is continuing with this ridiculous over-the-top approach. It's a shame, FT are an interesting chapter but they need more than "I'm so angry, I'm gonna kill you all"

[Moonreaper666]

I thought only TWELVE Flesh Tearers survived Leviathan's onslaught on Baal? (Out of 500 or more Marines)

 

That's miniscule compared to the few Companies of surviving Blood Angels!

[Felix Antipodes]

I was hoping that Forrester would revive the (written) fortunes of the Flesh Tearers after the angry marines depiction of Smilie’s run.  To the back of the reading pile it goes.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

13 hours ago, Moonreaper666 said:

I thought only TWELVE Flesh Tearers survived Leviathan's onslaught on Baal? (Out of 500 or more Marines)

 

That's miniscule compared to the few Companies of surviving Blood Angels!

 

There were definitely a lot more than twelve survivors. They evacuated in six Thunderhawks and each one was full before it took off and the next one descended.

[Nagashsnee]

Well i finished it. Non spoiler review unless you are a DIE HARD fan of flesh tearers skip this book.

 

Spoiler

Ok full book review.

After decades of no contact with the chapter monastery a company of primaris flesh tearers accompanied by a firstborn dreadnought are sent by seth to see whats up and kick start recruitment.  To do this they must cross the dark imperium, the great rift and defeat whatever has happened to the garrison ( if indeed anything has). 

 

I honestly cant even be bothered for a proper review, the marines are ANGRY, in such a over the top constant way that it stops being funny fast. Instead questions on how anything ever gets done except by serfs ( who get killed in huge numbers near constantly, either because of blood, or because one of the marines was simply too ANGRY, or because they raised some excellent points about crew morale/efficiency when they are constantly being murdered).

 

Our two main characters is a chaplain whose main trait is that he is VERY ANGRY because he thinks the mission is a waste of time and they should just forget about the homeworld (except the relics, he LOVEEEES him some relics). Also he loved being ANGRY and wants the death company re instated ( why it ever went away when the firstborn are still around is never addressed however). 

 

The other is a apothecary whose main trait is 'checks notes' that he is VERY ANGRY because he hates being angry and wants to cure the black rage. He thinks the secret to this is on the homeworld. Why does he think this? Who knows, his master plan seemed to be get there and the answer will be hidden away somewhere. Why does he think there was a cure this entire time that was never used? Who knows? Maybe the utter lack of sense is why he is so very very ANGRY. 

 

Several other marines have names but honestly its angry reiver, angry agressor, angry company champion etc. They are all so very very ANGRY. 

 

Anyhow they get back home which has been taken over by a chaos warband, details on how this happened are vague ( something about 1 serf getting possesed/sad and then....something something dark side?).  This is where any form of logic goes straight out the window. The entire system is either dead or abandoned, included a Mechanicum outpost, 2 other worlds ( an agri world and i wanna say a feudal world). Answers are few and not very convincing. How long ago did this happen? Why did the imperium never check out the situation when a system containing 3 planets ( one of which is a marine chapter world) and had a mechanicum presence go total dark? (Well here fair enough they probably barely noticed in the post rift mess. ) How did the fortress monestary fall without a fight and with an active defence grid, voids and weapons? Who knows. 

 

What we do know is that a chaos warband took over cretacia, corrupted about half the local population, looted the chapter relics ( only some mind you, the rest  were left in mint condition) and kinda chilled there while planning to go to other worlds thru a warp rift. Tho if they lacked any ships, again what happened to the rest of the system? 

Anyhow our ANGRY marines try some stupid stupid plans ( charging  the curtain wall with the voids and all defenses fully active being the top, hoping a single damaged strike cruiser can pop the FOTRESS MONESTARIES voids shields, etc).  Eventually  they get inside by employing the most basic of strategies ( maybe we know some ways into the fortress that they dont, which they talked about earlier but was apparently a cowards choice...sigh) and a fight ensues.  Our apothecary finds out that the super duper secret cure to the black rage doesn't exist ( gasp of surprise all round I am sure)  and loses his sanity by of course !!!BECOMING SO ANGRY HE FALLS TO THE RAGE!!!.  While our chaplain wins the day by failing into a trap by being too ANGRY and so unleashing the ANGRIEST of marines ( death company) To angry their way out of it. 

 

Honestly i skimmed allot during the last 1/3 so 100% plot accuracy may not be here. This was at times a very fun book to read for all the wrong reasons ( the part where the other marines basically DARE YOU BRAH  the chaplain into charging the walls when they all know it will go badly was frankly glorious). But wasn't bad enough to be so bad its good. It reads like fan fiction often, with someone taking what the chapter is famous for and dialing it up to 11 constantly.  

 

I regret buying this book. I intend to sell it off as fast as i can. And to me that says more then a number score ever could.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[Felix Antipodes]

Gee, maybe I was a bit harsh before  It’s like the Chapter was recruited from the geneseed of some guys named Moe, Larry and Curly Joe 

[Moonreaper666]

Looking this up on Amazon. Why is this shown to be part of the Last Chancers series?

[Brother Tyler]

5 hours ago, Moonreaper666 said:

Looking this up on Amazon. Why is this shown to be part of the Last Chancers series?

 

Because someone made a mistake.

[Arkangilos]

Honestly the way I read their fluff in the codex and Malevolence, and the way I’ve seen them portrayed in 40K novels (though I liked them in DoB), and how people are describing this, I kind of wish they were handled more like they culturally returned to the Revenant Legion culture rather than just angry. Like the revenant legion, particularly with Amit, was described as having the same kind of reputation of as the Flesh Tearers, but they weren’t “angry.” They just cared nothing about appearance, and gave into the thirst far more.

[theSpirea]

Didn't plan to but ended up reading it anyway. Mainly because some of my friends enjoyed it. It's definitely better than FT written by Andy Smillie. The only decent FT entry by him is Flesh of Cretacia and even that one is nothing amazing. Unfortunately, I have to agree with @Nagashsnee, his review is spot on.

 

I liked the idea of the main two characters dealing with Rage differently. Both Dumah (Chaplain) and Barachiel (Apothecary) struggle to find their place, what it meas to be FT, whether to embrace it, hide it, etc. All this is sadly buried by constant mention of "rage" and "wrath". Every single dialogue is them "gotta hold it back or I will kill them all". Forrester is pushing this theme so hard (but still less than Smillie) it became a joke and everything he tried to build around it loses meaning.

 

 Here are some examples 

Spoiler

He envisioned tackling the assault sergeant to the ground, fracturing his skull with hammer blows of fist and forehead.

 

He envisioned clutching the sergeant’s head in his hands, drinking his blood from the polished skull.

 

...envisioned himself tearing [redacted] arm from its socket, then his head from his neck. He resisted the impulse, and for a short time there were only the clicks and snarls of their power armour and the hololithic table stuttering to life. 

 

[Redacted] wanted to strike Seth, to crush his skull and tear the beating, bloody hearts from his chest. His fangs slid from his gums. 

 

‘I warned you,’ [Redacted] said, envisioning himself pulverising the [redacted]’s skull, tearing his spinal cord and skull free from his body. The beast chortled, delighted by the imagined carnage, imploring him to enact it. 

These are just a few examples.

 

Not to be only negative, there were parts I greatly enjoyed.

 

Spoiler

Conversations with mortals were deeply uninteresting, too sanitised by their fear, awe, and the trivial concerns that plagued their brief existences. But Barachiel had learned much from the Lord Guilliman’s example and shared his belief that conversation lent context to reports and could prove more informative than even the most detailed summarisation.

or
‘You take Appollus too literally,’ Barachiel said. Their fanaticism perturbed him. ‘Wrath alone cannot rule our hearts. It must be tempered with wisdom, lest we become impotent caricatures enslaved to our fury, like the traitor World Eaters.’

 

And I do like Forrester's prose. 14K unique words! I don't think I've ever seen that in any other BL book. I'm not saying a higher vocabulary range = better writing but it's definitely noticeable.

Spoiler

Space rippled, the stars dragging out like the ocean before a tidal wave.

The warp detonated into the Corythos System. Psychedelic particle storms leaked raw madness and radiation through the suppurating wound, granting brief life to beasts that could not dwell outside that nightmarish realm. Undulating tendrils of etheric lightning lashed the aseptic stillness of reality; the throbbing clouds of twisted light framing the tear were infected haematomas pressing against reality’s skin, its membrane rippling like water on plastek.

The Cretacian Justice limped through the fissure alone.

 

This one is hard to rate. If Forrester ends up writing another novel for BL, I'm going to buy it. I'd like to think the issues I have with this one are down to the topic/editors/BL's requested direction rather than author's doing.

 

6/10. No regrets reading it but too heavy on "rage" theme.

[Nagashsnee]

Ok @theSpirea so glad someone else read it on here, so questions. 

 

Spoiler

1) Did you maybe better understand what happened to the planets/system/populace better then i did?  Did the fortress monastery really just fall to 1 possesed thrall? 

2) What did you think of the scene where the plan to take out the power fails but the chaplain gets dared into ordering the charge anyhow? 

3) Is it just me or did the dreadnought advisor really really suck at his job? Like i expected him to at some point be pivotal to the plot but he kinda just fades into the background.

 

 

 

 

 

[theSpirea]

Spoiler

1) Honestly not sure what exactly happened there.

2) I was thinking how the heck this chapter survived all this time. They basically consider tactics to be for cowards and the only proper way to fight is a headless charge. It was dumb but still somehow made sense if we consider how the individual members were depicted.

3) Pointless character, I completely forgot about him. For a book this long, there weren't that many memorable characters.

 

[Moonreaper666]

9 hours ago, theSpirea said:

  Reveal hidden contents

1) Honestly not sure what exactly happened there.

2) I was thinking how the heck this chapter survived all this time. They basically consider tactics to be for cowards and the only proper way to fight is a headless charge. It was dumb but still somehow made sense if we consider how the individual members were depicted.

3) Pointless character, I completely forgot about him. For a book this long, there weren't that many memorable characters.

 

Spoiler

When you can run 65mph while doing perfect headshots from far away for weeks without stopping or eating or resting tactics are optional

 

Both the Sons of Sanginius and Sons of Angron are faster, stronger and tougher than normal Marines for similar reasons

 

Marines are basically what the Jedi and Sith wish they could be. Angels of Death that kill Billions wherever they go

 

Last Chancers: Armageddon Saints shows how powerful a few Marines are against Sisters of Battle and Guardsmen

 

[Nagashsnee]

15 hours ago, theSpirea said:

  Reveal hidden contents

1) Honestly not sure what exactly happened there.

2) I was thinking how the heck this chapter survived all this time. They basically consider tactics to be for cowards and the only proper way to fight is a headless charge. It was dumb but still somehow made sense if we consider how the individual members were depicted.

3) Pointless character, I completely forgot about him. For a book this long, there weren't that many memorable characters.

 

Spoiler

Damn i was really hoping 1 was me, because its a massive feat for chaos and i really hope the book doesnt just Palpatine it. 

On 3, thats because it barely had characters, it had unit descriptors agressor/reiver/etc a rank and a description of anger level.  But the dreadnough had real promise, the veteran firstborn, the only one born of the planet they went to save, the only one who must have learned to master their rage and has experience with the rage/thirst. Sent specifically to advice/oversee and he just does ...nothing? What a giant waste.

 

[drooling blood]

It was a load of grox :cuss: tbh. Im assuming, hes 14 yrs old and has a family member, that is quite high in the BL chain.

Barely any decent character development. Lots of wasted opportunities there. The bolter porn parts went on far to long. I dont think anyone understands the system, station fight.

Im not sure why theyre even touching on the BA or successors at this time.  Just leave them be, until the siege finishes.

 

 

[Sothalor]

Really struggling to make it through this one. As has been adroitly observed by many fraters here, the constant depiction of the Flesh Tearers as constantly being on the edge of losing control and filled with RAGE is just overwhelming.

 

It actively damages the verisimilitude of the book for me; I'm sorry, I can't see how these guys get anything done. The rate at which they lose Astartes to stupid tactical decisions (or lack thereof), or trying to dismember each other in the training pits, or completely disregarding all semblance of logistics or materiel concerns, or draining hundreds or thousands of their crew serfs bone dry on a single trip... it's just too much.

 

That depiction also swamps the portrayals of Dumah and Barachiel, the two main protagonists. The whole RAGE angle ends up drowning out the differences in their perspectives, values, and goals. It weakens the contrasting texture between them that should be one of the driving forces of the narrative.

 

And that's all kind of a shame, because Wrath of the Lost has an otherwise solid premise underlying it. You've got two Primaris inheritors of a broken, wild Chapter with a toxic reputation. They have drastically different opinions on the direction the Chapter should go. All the while here are these Primaris newbloods who have to deal with the legacy of their bloodline, tossed into the deep end with disdain and malice from their Firstborn predecessors. There's a lot of potential here.

 

But so far, what this reminds me of is... there was this one time a buddy and I got some fried chicken sandwiches from this place. They offered different levels of spiciness you could choose. We got level four of five - and that turned out to be a mistake. Now, the individual components of the sandwiches themselves were great. Fluffy, soft, well-toasted buns. Snappy and creamy coleslaw. The chicken was moist and tender, with a good crunch on the fry. But we couldn't taste any of it. All we could taste was burning, from the hot sauce. It just overpowered everything else.

 

That's what Wrath is like for me about halfway through. I like the underlying ideas and premise; it's got solid prose and wordsmithing. But what should be thematic spice is way too heavy.

[Moonreaper666]

On 2/1/2023 at 11:20 AM, Sothalor said:

Really struggling to make it through this one. As has been adroitly observed by many fraters here, the constant depiction of the Flesh Tearers as constantly being on the edge of losing control and filled with RAGE is just overwhelming.

 

It actively damages the verisimilitude of the book for me; I'm sorry, I can't see how these guys get anything done. The rate at which they lose Astartes to stupid tactical decisions (or lack thereof), or trying to dismember each other in the training pits, or completely disregarding all semblance of logistics or materiel concerns, or draining hundreds or thousands of their crew serfs bone dry on a single trip... it's just too much.

 

That depiction also swamps the portrayals of Dumah and Barachiel, the two main protagonists. The whole RAGE angle ends up drowning out the differences in their perspectives, values, and goals. It weakens the contrasting texture between them that should be one of the driving forces of the narrative.

 

And that's all kind of a shame, because Wrath of the Lost has an otherwise solid premise underlying it. You've got two Primaris inheritors of a broken, wild Chapter with a toxic reputation. They have drastically different opinions on the direction the Chapter should go. All the while here are these Primaris newbloods who have to deal with the legacy of their bloodline, tossed into the deep end with disdain and malice from their Firstborn predecessors. There's a lot of potential here.

 

But so far, what this reminds me of is... there was this one time a buddy and I got some fried chicken sandwiches from this place. They offered different levels of spiciness you could choose. We got level four of five - and that turned out to be a mistake. Now, the individual components of the sandwiches themselves were great. Fluffy, soft, well-toasted buns. Snappy and creamy coleslaw. The chicken was moist and tender, with a good crunch on the fry. But we couldn't taste any of it. All we could taste was burning, from the hot sauce. It just overpowered everything else.

 

That's what Wrath is like for me about halfway through. I like the underlying ideas and premise; it's got solid prose and wordsmithing. But what should be thematic spice is way too heavy.

 

The Flesh Tearers only had 500 until Leviathan killed most of them

 

They did fight the Space Wolves (who had 1700 Marines until Magnus and Abaddon reduced them to 700 after) to a standstill.

 

The Sons of Sanginius are faster and stronger which suites them well in melee like the World Eaters. They also age slower (too bad Sigismund isn't a Son of Sanguinius)

[WARMASTER_]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:29 AM, theSpirea said:

I didn't have high expectations for this one, so far the author's short stories weren't anything exceptional and the majority of the previous 40K Flesh Tearers stories were garbage. All written (those I've read) by Andy Smillie and he had a weird fetish with constantly pushing the anger theme to the point it was ridiculous. Also obsession to have SMs headbutting each other all the time (mentioned multiple times within a story).

I personally really enjoyed Andy Smillie’s Flesh Tearers! I think he gets them spot on…

 

IMO he’s the only one who actually captures the curse gripping them with not the most obvious “We’re the angry guys” On one hand he shows how Space Marines are far superior to base line humans not just with sheer physicality but with processing and cataloging data better than almost anyone in BL! you get a sense of just how genetically enhanced these warriors are but despite this they’re almost completely lost to the degradation of their gene seed and the grip of the twin curses which makes them almost berserkers, rash and prone to suicidal acts in anger, it’s a more nuanced perspective then just “We’re BA but angrier” 

 

I think his series of 40K shorts and Novella’s are some of the best I’ve read regarding SM 

[Roomsky]

I tried on this one, I really did, but I dropped it about halfway through the audiobook for all the reasons people already described.

 

Like, I'm the first to enjoy good prose over substance. I'm the first to overlook a book's flaws if it's sufficiently grimdark and edgy and miserable. Heck, I've looked down my nose at people who let established fluff get in their way of enjoying an otherwise good book more than once. But it's so one-note and misguided that even I am defeated. When the Tearers got to Cretacia and I saw we were only halfway through I was genuinely shocked.

 

And I'm down for loyalist chapters being horrible. In fact, I prefer it. But if they only reached their worst towards the end of their ship journey I can't help but think this would've been many times more compelling. What happened to Amit being worried about a bunch of Ultramarines in red? A gaggle of Primaris slowly coming to terms with how much they share with their namesake and ultimately embracing the "necessity" of butchering most of the crew would have been lovely. Instead we get Flesh Tearer primaris who seem even less restrained than their firstborn counterparts and whose constant rage is just exhausting.

 

I agree with theSpirea though. I'll try this author's next book because there's some solid craft shining through the cracks here. I LOVE the debate about the Black Rage being a good thing because it's the closest they can ever get to their primarch since the Blood Angels hoard so much of the legion's history, culture, and artefacts. The prose is good. The grimdark is grim and dark. Just… let the guy write about Guardsmen or Ultramarines or something.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Roomsky