Rubicon and the flaw

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just curious if there’s ever been an attempt to subdue a brother fallen to the rage, or thirst and put them threw the rubicon to try to do a factory reset on their brains.

[Blindhamster]

Interesting idea. It was used to stabilise mephiston, which isn’t the same, but could be an interesting idea to play with

[Spyros]

I think they did something similar with Mephiston in "Darkness in the blood". 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Spyros said:

I think they did something similar with Mephiston in "Darkness in the blood". 

Mephiston’s issues had nothing to with the flaw.

his body just couldn’t contain his psychic power any more so they gave him a stronger body 

[Arkangilos]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:08 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Just curious if there’s ever been an attempt to subdue a brother fallen to the rage, or thirst and put them threw the rubicon to try to do a factory reset on their brains.

I don’t think it works because the Primaris suffer from the rage as well. If they didn’t I 100% believe it would be used that way because it would be the cure they all hoped for.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Arkangilos said:

I don’t think it works because the Primaris suffer from the rage as well. If they didn’t I 100% believe it would be used that way because it would be the cure they all hoped for.

Just because they suffer from the curse doesn’t mean crossing the rubicon couldn’t act as a factory reset.

 

i imagine both parts of the curse are chemical imbalances in the brain. Crossing the rubicon could theoretically balance out the brain chemistry.

[Slave to Darkness]

If they cant make geneseed that works on women I doubt they are smart enough to fix mental health issues. Fabius on the other hand... 

 

Mind you it could reboot the brain, they just need to make it believable and not just 'it works because Cawl is like really cool and can do everything and he had the loopy medication ready before Sanquinius was even found and because Guilliman said so'.

[Cleon]

I wouldn't mind if they end up saying the Rubicon process pushes the rage back down - I can't see it helping if the brother is already lost, but someone who is teetering on the edge, or feels it coming might buy more time - the question then is 'is it enough time to be worth it'

[Majkhel]

Another aspect is that battle-brothers usually fall to the Rage on the eve of battle. So does the force about to go into battle has resources and time to spare to perform the procedure? Or is it more prudent to just paint the falla's armour black and point him in the general direction of the Hor.. enemy?

Edited January 20, 2023 by Majkhel

[Arkangilos]

9 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Just because they suffer from the curse doesn’t mean crossing the rubicon couldn’t act as a factory reset.

 

i imagine both parts of the curse are chemical imbalances in the brain. Crossing the rubicon could theoretically balance out the brain chemistry.

It isn’t a brain issue, it’s an issue with the organ that gives them memories from eating flesh and a psychic backlash.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 hours ago, Majkhel said:

Another aspect is that battle-brothers usually fall to the Rage on the eve of battle. So does the force about to go into battle has resources and time to spare to perform the procedure? Or is it more prudent to just paint the falla's armour black and point him in the general direction of the Hor.. enemy?

Some brothers survive the battle. That’s when it would be attempted in my mind.

12 hours ago, Arkangilos said:

It isn’t a brain issue, it’s an issue with the organ that gives them memories from eating flesh and a psychic backlash.

Not a brain issue, but psychic backlash…and where do psychic powers come from or most often effect? Oh yeah the brain.

[Arkangilos]

17 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Not a brain issue, but psychic backlash…and where do psychic powers come from or most often effect? Oh yeah the brain.

Actually, the soul. 
 

The psychic backlash affects the memory, which the rubicon doesn’t destroy. The memory may be in the brain, but as the soul is conduit of the powers, the soul will retain the spiritual memories.

 

The rubicon doesn’t touch the memories, and even if it did, the effect of the rage would still be there, hence mindwiping doesn’t work. 
 

Also, if that is snark I detect and you want an good discussion, I’d drop it.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Jolemai]

Play nice folks...

[Leonaides]

To be a blood angel, they literally have the curse running like a thread through every cell in their bodies. 

 

 

 

Blood Angels are the only gene line that are forced to use the flesh/blood of a dead primarch, taken from him after his death, to create new marines. Every cell in their body still remembers horus killing them, every cell still reverberates to the psychic damage. The rage is the living flesh trying and eventually failing to reconcile knowing its death but yet being alive. The only way to avoid it would be to strip out every organ, cell and every bit of dna that makes them a marine.

 

 

[Blindhamster]

8 hours ago, Leonaides said:

To be a blood angel, they literally have the curse running like a thread through every cell in their bodies. 

 

 

 

Blood Angels are the only gene line that are forced to use the flesh/blood of a dead primarch, taken from him after his death, to create new marines. Every cell in their body still remembers horus killing them, every cell still reverberates to the psychic damage. The rage is the living flesh trying and eventually failing to reconcile knowing its death but yet being alive. The only way to avoid it would be to strip out every organ, cell and every bit of dna that makes them a marine.

 

 

First batch of primaris didn’t use anything from dead-guinius as far as we know (seems unlikely cawl had access).

 

anyway.

 

I doubt the rubicon can stop the rage directly, and it only has physical elements of the godmaker that was used to make primarchs, so it isn’t going to further amplify the will of an astartes. 
 

to me, we have seem a single marine truly overcome the thirst and rage - mephiston, and based on his novels, it is definitely not as simple as that even for him.

 

lemartes hasn’t overcome it, he simply has occasional lucid moments due to his iron will. He still has to be kept in stasis, he will be the test. If he gets a primaris update, they’ll likely update his lore. 
 

otherwise, I think it isn’t possible to overcome the rage. And whilst cawl could have removed the thirst, he didn’t because recognised that as part of the emperors design for the blood angels. 

[Xenith]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:05 AM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

i imagine both parts of the curse are chemical imbalances in the brain.

 

I don't think they've ever been described as such - they drink blood so have Sanguinius's memories, and it drives them insane over time. The rubicon doesn't seem to effect memory, however mass mind wiping does, as is what used to happen to marine chapters after fighting daemons. It would be interesting to see, however I feel unlikely, whether a mindwipe would erase the rage, as you;d have to go so far back they would probably forget their training. 

[Arkangilos]

5 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

I don't think they've ever been described as such - they drink blood so have Sanguinius's memories, and it drives them insane over time. The rubicon doesn't seem to effect memory, however mass mind wiping does, as is what used to happen to marine chapters after fighting daemons. It would be interesting to see, however I feel unlikely, whether a mindwipe would erase the rage, as you;d have to go so far back they would probably forget their training. 

Yeah, considering how big the search for the cure is, is mind wiping is the key they’d have started that. 

 

Training wouldn’t be an issue because of how their organ works. They can get muscle memory just from eating the relevant dead guys and bam, now they are veterans again.