Post Arks of Omens point drops playing chaos (and Votann)

[Prot]

11 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I had dropped Abaddon at some point for Black Legion, because I was playing down at like 1500 points and I thought he was too much even then. Do y'all think he is still worth it at 350 points, or are you considering dropping him as well?

here’s the thing… I have been playing him at 350 and it’s really hard mode right now without AoC and loyalists getting more while we are typically taking jacked up Termies. I don’t think both work.  Abaddon in a list has to have a list built around him or there’s no point. He simply can’t be everywhere at once so he has to be the centre piece and that means even your secondary’s have to focus somewhat around where he can exercise board control.  
 

So I still take him for now but it’s very hard to make an all comers list around him. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

5 minutes ago, Prot said:

here’s the thing… I have been playing him at 350 and it’s really hard mode right now without AoC and loyalists getting more while we are typically taking jacked up Termies. I don’t think both work.  Abaddon in a list has to have a list built around him or there’s no point. He simply can’t be everywhere at once so he has to be the centre piece and that means even your secondary’s have to focus somewhat around where he can exercise board control.  
 

So I still take him for now but it’s very hard to make an all comers list around him. 

That's what I was thinking would happen, but I haven't played him at 350 yet. The way I've been building lists, I think I'm not even going to include him if we go back up to 2000 points now, I personally think I'd rather just have 500 points of more units.

[Toldavf]

I've always disliked paying that much for a character, especially one that if an opponent is ready for them can easily remove (for example a DP with Golthax). I feel their are other options that have reasonable offense for half the cost thus allowing you more army. 

[Prot]

Well my most recent Chaos game I faced off against the recently tweaked Genestealer Cult.

 

I did pull out Abe, Black Legion, Possessed (no termies). After the Votann game I just decided they are way too easy to kill now for the points/buffs/etc.

 

Long story short I did pull off a win, but talk about last minute and lucky.

 

Short notes:

- I went second which I find to be HUGE vs Genestealer Cult.

- I was getting torn apart from the shooting. It surprised me how much better it got for Genestealers. Mining Lasers everywhere.

- Two squads of Muscle Beach gave me big problems, however even after warning my opponent that I had a mark of Tzeentch Legionairie squad with Reaper cannon available to "Auspex Scan" him, he still deep struck within 12" because he wanted to charge me so badly. That Legionarie squad killed all but 1 model from that muscle beach squad, the last model ran to morale. 

- I still love and use Helbrutes. They're my secret sauce, ignored by most but they make every list, from every chaos legion I play. It's going to be tough picking a final legion to place them in!

- Possessed. Good and bad. They got stuck on these 'fire assault trucks' from hell. Seriously these things are crazy good in CC. 6 attacks each, and they do 2 damage an attack and negate 1 damage an attack, pretty much rendering my Possessed useless.  It took Abaddon getting in there AND a Daemon Prince to save the Possessed which were down to 2 models at one point (from 7).

- End game I am getting out pointed, and with so few models to start with I felt the pain of trying to cover quarters while not letting the Genestealers rick roll into my zone which had my Predator... the Predator was amazing, but I rolled a stupid amount of 6 ups on mining laser saves to keep it rolling all game long.

- End game a big squad of Genestealers and the HQ Patriarch came in and diced up my 8 man Legionairie squad like butter. I realized I am going to lose if I can't stop it right now.... I get my winged DP without a mark so I could take my favorite Daemon Weapon of choice.... I have to make a long charge. Then it hits me; I can do the double move psychic power on myself to get there quicker... nope! After a double check I remind myself it can't be on Monsters. Wait... One more long shot; I spend my last CP to give the DP "Red Corsairs" trait, move/advance for 17", puts me within 5 of the Patriarch. The Daemon Prince saves the day, cutting the Patriarch down before it can strike back.

 

Conclusion:

Abaddon is flat out over priced right now. I love the model so I continue to take him, but his kill tally was simply half of one of those assaulty flame trucks, and about 5 peons that deep struck in and tried to shoot me up. His 'big' value is his aura's. No doubt. A savvy player is not going to assault him with anything that isn't super tanky. Abe's ability to make a Core unit (hard to find actually) re-roll hits and wounds is, imho, his number 1 use, and number 2 use is to literally 'own' a small, important piece of the table.

 

The Black Legion vs. Iron Warriors still tilts towards Black Legion in my opinion. I know there are stronger legions however the BL ability to have that +1 to hit in CC is big with most of the units being assault oriented. This is where my IW run into issues, and that leads to larger scoring issues. So the plus with my BL is, Abe, and the DP can score very well on secondaries. Despoil is a horrible secondary though, maybe nearly as bad as the IW one. (Sabotage?) Even with rewording, I'm not a fan of either one.

 

As my experimenting continues, until (or if) GW doesn't 'fix' Chosen, there's no point. Just my opinion but the value in obsec Legionaries with some free toys is a much better choice for me.  

[danodan123]

19 hours ago, Prot said:

 

- End game a big squad of Genestealers and the HQ Patriarch came in and diced up my 8 man Legionairie squad like butter. I realized I am going to lose if I can't stop it right now.... I get my winged DP without a mark so I could take my favorite Daemon Weapon of choice.... I have to make a long charge. Then it hits me; I can do the double move psychic power on myself to get there quicker... nope! After a double check I remind myself it can't be on Monsters. Wait... One more long shot; I spend my last CP to give the DP "Red Corsairs" trait, move/advance for 17", puts me within 5 of the Patriarch. The Daemon Prince saves the day, cutting the Patriarch down before it can strike back.

 

 

Good read, I just wanted to point out this bit sorry to be a buzzkill, but your Daemon Prince has to take a mark! :(

 

I wish they couldn't as I'd like a true undivided word bearers list!

[Prot]

Funny you say that, I just noticed that last night.

 

I've not been running the DP since the new codex came out, and I thought "Mark of Undivided" was a mark, then I see... he's gotta take an allegiance, followed up by the corresponding mark! 

 

Believe it or not I leave little errors in my mini-batreps to get people to post. But not this time. Often an error will get people to post over just a 'good read'. So thank you!

 

Very true about Word Bearers, I never even thought about that but it would be very fluffy, and come to think of it possessed can take an icon but have no allegiance.

[Malakithe]

So DPs cant stay Undivided?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I suppose if you're doing Open Play they can, but their rules state that if your army is battleforged then you must Mark them.

[Prot]

Yup, what Iron Father said.

 

I did it wrong. I thought the Mark of Undivided was a 'mark' but the problem is the rules state you have to dedicate your DP to a specific power. So ... Slaanesh, Khorne, etc.

 

Then the "mark" has to correspond with that allegiance. 

 

Too bad, I REALLY like that daemon weapon.

[Toldavf]

5 hours ago, Prot said:

Yup, what Iron Father said.

 

I did it wrong. I thought the Mark of Undivided was a 'mark' but the problem is the rules state you have to dedicate your DP to a specific power. So ... Slaanesh, Khorne, etc.

 

Then the "mark" has to correspond with that allegiance. 

 

Too bad, I REALLY like that daemon weapon.

Try Gollthax it's crazy good.

[Malakithe]

Strange how they force a god mark in 40k but AoS you can choose undivided 

[Prot]

15 hours ago, Toldavf said:

Try Gollthax it's crazy good.

 

I have, and it's certainly a great option but I still prefer the mortal wound generating effect.... but as mentioned I would have to put it on a character (undivided) other than a DP. :)

 

[danodan123]

24 minutes ago, Prot said:

 

I have, and it's certainly a great option but I still prefer the mortal wound generating effect.... but as mentioned I would have to put it on a character (undivided) other than a DP. :)

 

 

I was looking at running a Lord Discordant with the undivided daemon weapon and flames of spite... lots of mortal wounds! 

[Toldavf]

5 hours ago, danodan123 said:

 

I was looking at running a Lord Discordant with the undivided daemon weapon and flames of spite... lots of mortal wounds! 

Yeah don't forget that the Bale flame can also generate MW from the trait.