missed opportunities for tank commander...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

i kinda can't believe that the larger dorn can't be a TC. it would make sense that the larger tank would be a better fit for a TC. 
i also think the gatekeeper relic should simply be an upgrade for any turret weapon for a russ or dorn. something like S+1 AP+1 D+1 (random damage weapons would then 1+d6 or whatever)

Edited January 25, 2023 by duz_
Updated title

[greatcrusade08]

Yeah it is a shame. With one dorn and half a dozen russes it would make sense the tc would take over the big boy 

[Minsc]

While I wouldn't mind TCs being able to ride Dorns I'm not against the restriction either.

 

In June 1944 Michael Wittman was still driving around in a Tiger I despite having "better" tanks at his disposal.

 

I imagine IG TCs view their LRs the same way he viewed his Tiger I's. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Minsc

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

32 minutes ago, Minsc said:

While I wouldn't mind TCs being able to ride Dorns I'm not against the restriction either.

 

In June 1944 Michael Wittman was still driving around in a Tiger I despite having "better" tanks at his disposal.

 

I imagine IG TCs view their LRs the same way he viewed his Tiger I's. 

but was the command structure forcing him into a tiger?

[duz_]

3 hours ago, Minsc said:

I imagine IG TCs view their LRs the same way he viewed his Tiger I's. 

 

 Pask is said to have this view. Although in Cadia Stands or something he is seen manning a Baneblade of some description. 

 

I'm guessing it's this way for balance. 

[sairence]

4 hours ago, duz_ said:

 

 Pask is said to have this view. Although in Cadia Stands or something he is seen manning a Baneblade of some description. 

 

I'm guessing it's this way for balance. 

 

Not quite. In the book there's other troopers claiming they saw Pask on Cadia and in a Baneblade, but he was actually off-planet at the time. And he sticks to his Russes.

[Harrowmaster]

It can be done with vaunted praetorian so not a total loss.

[Emperor Ming]

6 hours ago, Harrowmaster said:

It can be done with vaunted praetorian so not a total loss.

I don't see the point in that

 

As it cant buff itself

 

Am I missing something

[Harrowmaster]

14 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

I don't see the point in that

 

As it cant buff itself

 

Am I missing something

It can still give orders to other squadron units. Regular tank commanders can't buff themselves either so even if the tank commander entry allowed for the Dorn to be used it wouldn't get the benefit. 

[Minsc]

A regular TC can give tank orders to itself with the Lead by Example WLT though.

Since the Dorn only becomes an Officer and not a Character from the Vaunted Praetorian Tank Ace there's currently no way to combine Lead by Example and Vaunted Praetorian into having a Dorn that can issue orders to itself.

So the choices are thus;
1) Take a Dorn that can issue orders to others (Vaunted Praetorian)
2) Russ TC that can issue orders to itself or others (Lead by Example)

Since the Gatekeeper-relic is so good, I often find myself fielding a TC with it and Lead by Example, and simply have it order itself and bounce the order to a nearby Dorn.
It's not what some people are asking for, but it works.
 

[Harrowmaster]

1 minute ago, Minsc said:

A regular TC can give tank orders to itself with the Lead by Example WLT though.

Since the Dorn only becomes an Officer and not a Character from the Vaunted Praetorian Tank Ace there's currently no way to combine Lead by Example and Vaunted Praetorian into having a Dorn that can issue orders to itself.

So the choices are thus;
1) Take a Dorn that can issue orders to others (Vaunted Praetorian)
2) Russ TC that can issue orders to itself or others (Lead by Example)

Since the Gatekeeper-relic is so good, I often find myself fielding a TC with it and Lead by Example, and simply have it order itself and bounce the order to a nearby Dorn.
It's not what some people are asking for, but it works.
 

Sure but then you're missing out on grand strategist or spending a command point to get both, I guess it's a matter of personal opinion. 

[Minsc]

9 minutes ago, Harrowmaster said:

Sure but then you're missing out on grand strategist or spending a command point to get both, I guess it's a matter of personal opinion. 

Yeah it would be easy to spend an additional CP to simply get both WLTs, but I often field an Astropath so Grand Strategist would often be waste.
I'd rather have my Gatekeeper TC re-roll 1's to hit.

[sairence]

15 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

I don't see the point in that

 

As it cant buff itself

 

Am I missing something

 

There is no rule in the new Codex that specifically says a unit can't give orders to itself. It's all about keyword access.

 

In order ro be able to receive a mechanised order, from any source, you need the squadron keyword. TCs don't have it, so normally can't benefit.

 

The Dorn has the squadron keyword, so it can order itself with Vaunted Praetorian.

 

Baneblades with the trait can order themselves, because the trait has a specific exception when it's given to a Titanic model.

Edited January 23, 2023 by sairence

[Harrowmaster]

I think the rules for orders say they can't be issued to Officer models, with exceptions for solar and commissars in their datasheets.

[sairence]

1 hour ago, Harrowmaster said:

I think the rules for orders say they can't be issued to Officer models, with exceptions for solar and commissars in their datasheets.

 

They do not say that. The underlying rule is on p75 of the English codex and says an Officer must select a friendly PLATOON unit for regimental/prefectus orders or a friendly SQUADRON unit for mechanised orders.

 

That's it. Beyond that, various models and abilities grant exceptions to this. Vaunted Praetorian lets a superheavy order a titanic unit, lead by example let's the officer issue an order to his own unit even though he normally couldn't (because no officer has the platoon/squadron keyword), Leontus can do what he wants, Commissars get to order Auxilia and INFANTRY OFFICER in addition. And I think that's it.

 

Note: Lead by Example has a slighty odd wording that suggests the OFFICER keyword may block an order, yes. But it doesn't directly say so and that is simply not supported by the actual rule for who can receive an order. Officers can't get orders normally, but purely because of the interaction with PLATOON/SQUADRON.

[Harrowmaster]

10 hours ago, sairence said:

 

They do not say that. The underlying rule is on p75 of the English codex and says an Officer must select a friendly PLATOON unit for regimental/prefectus orders or a friendly SQUADRON unit for mechanised orders.

 

That's it. Beyond that, various models and abilities grant exceptions to this. Vaunted Praetorian lets a superheavy order a titanic unit, lead by example let's the officer issue an order to his own unit even though he normally couldn't (because no officer has the platoon/squadron keyword), Leontus can do what he wants, Commissars get to order Auxilia and INFANTRY OFFICER in addition. And I think that's it.

 

Note: Lead by Example has a slighty odd wording that suggests the OFFICER keyword may block an order, yes. But it doesn't directly say so and that is simply not supported by the actual rule for who can receive an order. Officers can't get orders normally, but purely because of the interaction with PLATOON/SQUADRON.

Huh, I could have sworn it said somewhere they couldn't. Must have been the wording on lead by example and the commissar order section that confused me, oh well. 

[jarms48]

Not just the Dorne but any tank really. Would be cool to have Hellhound, Malcador, Macharius, Carnodon, and Baneblade options. 

[Emperor Ming]

Should we chat here about the FW update

 

The title of that could be missed opportunities

 

Sucks for anyone using the drill, attached unit only combat engineers

[duz_]

At this point it would seem this thread has run its course.