Arks of Omen - 5 round event report

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

Hello everyone,
 

I'm back with another tournament report, this one a 5-round (but small scale) local tournament using Arks of Omen rules and the recent Balance Dataslate/MFM.
 

Anyone whom has read my previous GT reports may be familiar with the typical list that I run, and given that it's taken me to four 4-1 results and the last four GTs, I thought I'd test it out here and see what a difference losing AoC makes; when weighed against permanent doctrines, sticky objectives and more points to play with. All of which is exacerbated by the ridiculous raw power of Codex Warfare.
 

Rather than making sweeping changes, I ran a list that's similar to those I've run before with a few minor tweaks to account for new points.
 

List is as follows:
 

Guilliman - Warlord (No Trait)

Tigurius - Might of Heroes, Psychic Fortress, Null-zone
Primaris Techmarine - Rites of War, Seal of Oath

5 Infiltrators with Helix Gauntlet
5 Infiltrators with Helix Gauntlet
5 Incursors with Haywire Mine
5 Incursors with Haywire Mine

RContemptor with 2 Twin Volkite Culverins, Cyclone Missile Launcher
RContemptor with 2 Twin Volkite Culverins, Cyclone Missile Launcher
Redemptor with Macroplasma, Onslaught, Icarus pod, Storm bolters
Redemptor with Macroplasma, Onslaught, Icarus pod, Storm bolters
2 Victrix Guard
2 Victrix Guard

3 Eradicators with Heavy Melta Rifles
5 Devastators, 3 Grav-cannons, 1 Multi-melta, Combi-melta

2000 points

Starts with 5 command points.
 

General army information:
 

I'd already been enjoying the way this army worked, I know a lot of people view marine troops as a 'tax' but that absolutely hasn't been my experience, as Ultramarines.

Forward Deploy and rapid Redeployment is just so powerful, and the fact we now have "Sticky" objectives just makes it all the more appealing.

Now, on top of all that, we get the free bits of wargear, which I'd always wanted to take but couldn't justify the price.
 

The loss of AoC was worrying, but permanent dev doctrine unlocks the crazily powerful Codex Warfare. Sure, it means I don't benefit from the Super Doctrine (unless I just squad doctrines on something) but frankly my army had never really needed tactical or assault before, whereas dev boosts so many of my weapons.

With that in mind I'd loaded up on as many heavy weapons as possible, Forward Deploy troops to play the mission, Infiltrators to ward off the worst attentions of drop-pods, GSC, Daemons, Teleports - all of that stuff.
 

2 units of Infiltrators is so good I can't see me dropping them any time soon.

 

Game 1:

Mission: Abandoned Sanctuaries 

GSC: Myriad Cult
 

Magus 
Primus
Acolyte Iconward 
4x20 Neophytes, Heavy weapons and icon
10 Neophytes 
5 Acolyte Hybrids
7 Purestrains 
Kelemorph 
Clamavus 
Nexus
3x Max Atalan Jackals with Wolf Quads, Demo charges and power weapons 

My Secondaries:

Codex Warfare
Shock Tactics
No Prisoners

His Secondaries:

Broodswarm
Ambush
Retrieve Battlefield Data
 

A GSC list that's had some decent success, and has an incredible number of bodies and recursion mechanics.

 

The mission is both useful, as it stops the atalans from making a pre-game move, and frustrating, as it prevents Forward Deploy.

He won first turn which gave him the opportunity to missile some purestrains into one of my Infiltrators, which was annoying, but the sheer volume of fire my list puts out was enough to cope with the large number of bodies. This was a very close, back and forth game however. Fall Back and shoot is invaluable here, other chapters would soon find their dreads tagged and far less efficient.
 

My opponent made a good show of contesting the primary, and is an excellent player, but my secondaries were all very easy to max and my remaining Infiltrators kept him from maxing RBD.

Final score: 94-85

Secondaries:

Codex Warfare - 15
Shock Tactics - 15
No Prisoners - 15

 

Game 2:
 

Mission: Data Scry Salvage 
White Scars
 

His List:
 

Korsarro Khan
Primaris Master of Sanctity on bike, Canticle of Hate, Wise Orator, Exhortation of Rage 

2x5 Infiltrators 

10 Assault Terminators, TH+SS 
4 Assault Centurions with Melta
2x5 Bladeguard 
Primaris Chief Apothecary with Selfless Healer and Vox Espiritun 
Company Champion with Rites of War and Plume of the Plains-runner 

3 Multi-melta Attack Bikes
6 Plasma Inceptors 
3 Outriders 
 

My Secondaries:
 

Shock Tactics
Codex Warfare
No Prisoners 
 

His Secondaries:
 

Shock Tactics
Lightning Strike
Raise the Banners
 

I won the roll to be the defender, and forward deployed incursors on the right hand side objectives, he mirrored me with Infiltrators. I won the roll to go first and, honestly, I think the Map and mission was a bit of an uphill struggle for my opponent. I managed to take out his innate obsec early, and managed to clear the unit screening his champion and kill that too.
 

Guilliman took a hefty toll on anything that came into my army and killed:
 

4 Centurions
6 Terminators (my Seal of Oath target)
3 Plasma Inceptors
Korsarro Khan
An Outrider
 

And survived the battle on one wound, without having to roll for resurrection - bonus!
 

For anyone who hasn't experimented with Dreads, Guilliman and permanent dev doctrine - you should. Iron Hands may reroll 1s, but we have fall back and shoot, an AoE reroll aura, Seal of Oath and lots of cp. It's really, really good.
 

Final Score: 90-55

Shock Tactics - 15
No Prisoners - 15
Codex Warfare - 15

 

Game 3:
 

Death and Zeal
Emissaries Imperatus Custodes

 

His list:
 

Trajan 
Bike Captain with 5+ Feel No Pain, Auric Aquillas and Tip of the Spear 

4x3 Sagitarum 
5 Prosecutors 

Achillus Dread
2 Individual Allarus 
Vexilla with the Dense Cover and Ignore Cover

2 Pallas Tanks
Caladius 
 

My Secondaries:
 

Codex Warfare 
Shock Tactics
Oaths of Moment 
 

His Secondaries:
 

Auric Mortalis
Stand Vigil 
Raise the Banners

My opponent is an excellent player, he's been top in the world on ITC with various factions and I knew this would be a hard game. Anyone who has followed my reports knows I have a bit of a "Custodes Curse". That said, he didn't have great secondary options, he'd built his list for Behind Enemy Lines but that would have been a trap against my army and the Infiltrators.

We both wanted to go second, due to Oath of Moment and Stand Vigil, thankfully I was fortunate enough to go second.

The entire game was very close and a brutal slog, Emissaries Imperatus Sagitarum shoot very well and Emperor's Auspice protects them well too.
 

However the vehicles are much more vulnerable, and I knew I had the better Secondaries. So the plan was to not fall too far behind on primary and make the most of second turn advantage.

The game was very back and forth, and very brutal, both armies absolutely mauled each other. But, in a rarity for competitive games, the game came down to a duel between both faction Leaders.

Trajan had made his way across the field, even shrugging off a failed save vs an eradicator (thanks to the moment shackle) and had bullied my army off my home objective.

The only thing I had which could reliably take him down, was Guilliman. But this is risky, if Guilliman dies I lose 15 points. But if I don't kill Trajan I probably don't score primary for two turns.

After much debating, Guilliman charges in and forces Trajan to take 6 saves (neither Commander has anyone around who can realistically contribute to the fight). Trajan fails three saves against the Hand of Dominion, and has to make 12 Feel No Pain rolls. With "average" dice, he should die. Unfortunately my opponent makes 5 of the Feel No Pains and survives on a wound.

He swings back and. After I use a cp reroll, leaves Guilliman on 6 wounds.

Unfortunately, in Emisarries, Trajan has Fights First. 
 

So in my next turn Trajan will swing before Guilliman: He forces 4 saves onto Guilliman's 3++.
 

I roll: a 4, a 3, a 2, a 1. Guilliman would be dead. However I have my one cp for the turn and reroll the last save..... a 4. Guilliman lives.
 

He smashes Trajan to the ground in return and realistically seals the win. Second turn advantage and better Secondaries lead me to win  84-74. Very close and an epic conclusion to the battle.
 

My secondaries:
 

Codex Warfare - 15
Shock Tactics - 15
Oaths - 14
 

Game 4:
 

Tide of Conviction 

Imperial Knights, Freeblade Lance
 

His list:
 

Paladin with Helm Dominatus and Ion Bulwark 

3 Hunters of Beasts Helverins, Bastrds Helm

3 Strike and Shield Warglaives 

3 Noble Combatant Warglaives 

Last of their Line Moirax, Blessed by the Sacristans 
 

My secondaries:
 

Bring It Down 
Shock Tactics 
March for Macragge 
 

His secondaries:

All Knight Specifics
 

I haven't played against the Freeblade Lance before, so thus was going to be interesting.
 

I know the knights get much more powerful as they get their buffs up, so I was hoping to go first, pick up a couple and jam the rest in his DZ with incursors and move blocks.

He strategic reserved his helverins to protect them in case he went second. Sadly he went first, though he had very little to shoot at and only killed 2 incursors.
 

In my turn I picked up a couple of armigers, and started three marches for Macragge. Now that March can be done on objectives in your deployment zone, it's a lot more viable, and he had no way to stop 2 of my marches. The third March was done by Victrix Guard behind dense terrain and my opponent, who also plays Ultramarines knew he'd have to massively over commit to kill the Victrix, and didn't, which meant I scored 12 for March on my turn two. Sticky objectives was also very powerful here, I consistently controlled my three home objectives whilst my phobos ran onto points and my guns shot any armigers who were stood on said points.
 

I lost both redemptors and a volcon, but by the end of the game every armiger was dead. Guilliman died bravely, killing three armjgers in melee and half killing the paladin, before dying horribly.

But the damage was done.
 

Final Score: 100-45 
 

Bring It Down - 15 (BID is strictly better here than codex warfare)
Shock Tactics - 15
March - 15 (I could technically have marched on every objective)

 

Game 5:
 

Securing Missing Artefacts 
Solar Watch Custodes 
 

Trajan 
Praetorian Plate Captain
Sally Forth Blade Champion 

2x3 Sagitarum
2x3 Custodian Guard 

2 Individual Allarus 
Achillus 

2x3 Vertus Praetors with Melta 
3 Venetari 
 

My secondaries:
 

Codex Warfare
Shock Tactics
Oath of Moment 
 

His Secondaries:
 

Auric Mortalis
Behind Enemy Lines
Raiser the Banners
 

Game 5 and I'm 4-0, I've manged a few 4-1s in Nephilim with this list, but never managed all five. Even if this is a very small event, it'd still be nice. I'm very thankful for the improved Oaths of Moment, gives me a decent third secondary here.
 

I win the roll to go first, which isn't great for Oaths or Shock Tactics, hut does really help with sticky objectives and screening out his allarus with Infiltrators. Thanks to the wide deployment map he can't hide everything and I Rapid Redeploy the Techmarine and Contemptors, and they utterly obliterate my seal of Oath target (3 praetors). The fact they can't transhuman or turn off rerolls makes them really vulnerable to my guns.
 

Unfortunately for my opponent the game continues like this, and even though the blade champion gets a charge into Guilliman, Guilliman puts him down pretty easily.

When all is said and done the final score is 97-32
 

Shock Tactics - 15
Codex Warfare - 15
Oaths of Moment - 12
 

So that's the run, 5-0 and a store champion trophy, which was kind of nice, this was a very small event though, but still nice that my list is still performing in Arks of Omen.
 

If anything, and I'll be completely honest, it's better. AoC protected my enemies from my volkite more than it helped me, and Codex Warfare is an absolutely ridiculous secondary.

I don't know why they decided to keep it the same after allowing armies to stay in Dev Doctrine all game, but there we are. I expect it to change in future, I've played six games of Arks of Omen now, and maxed it every time I've taken it. Whether against Custodes, Marines, Drukhari or GSC. 
 

People asked me why I wasn't running Iron Hands (even though my army is clearly painted as Ultramarines, I've played Ultramarines for 20 years and would never switch!) but I genuinely think we run dreadnoughts at least as well. Arguably better, as I mentioned, thanks to fall back and shoot and all the rerolls available to core in Ultramraines. Guilliman, Tigurius, Victrix Guard and Rapid Redeployment all remain exceptionally powerful.
 

My local league has started up again, with around 40 players (it's essentially a protracted GT format) so I'll see how things go there as I play a variety of opponents.
 

Any questions, please let me know. These reports are always lengthy so I cut a lot of the details, hut happy to expand on things.
 

Probable changes going forwards:

- Devastator
- Eradicators 
 

Both were fine, but Eradicstors feel so vulnerable to bouncing off I vulnerable saves, and against things like GSC they really didn't feel that valuable.

The devastators are good, but very fragile. And I'll be honest, I don't like the scale of the models.
 

+ Master of the Forge Upgrade 
+ 2x3 Eliminators, 2 Las Fusils and Bolt Carbine 
+ 5 Assault Hellblasters, Sergeant with Master Crafted weapon 
 

I used to use Eliminators all the time, not sure why I dropped them. I really missed their ability to move, shoot, move, and even without our super doctrine they hit on 3s when moving (usually with access to reroll 1s). Plus the fusils are heavy weapons and count towards Codex Warfare.
 

Master of the Forge is just a nice quality of life upgrade, saves rolling a 1 for repair rolls. Hellblasters: probably the most controversial pick. They don't count toward codex warfare and they're not exceptionally durable. But with inceptors being expensive, I wanted some efficient plasma fire in there, and the high ap is handy. Ultramarines provide lots of ways to reroll 1s, and their ability to advance and shoot (+1 to advance from Guilliman) allows them to advance up and shoot things that are hiding behind terrain.

Free strategic reserves is also a useful quasi deep-strike, and Sons of Guilliman allows them to operate independently.

I was tempted by Aggressors or a Gladiator reaper, for the same points, but the Reaper bumps up my BID count and the Aggressors, whilst good, kind of need to clump near Tigurius and Guilliman too much.
 

We shall see how it pans out.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Congrats on the big win and overcoming your nemesis!!

 

Just curious, what allows the Eliminators to move, shoot and move again ? /figured it out.

Edited January 27, 2023 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Enda]

This is the kind of tactical mastery I aspire to! I've seen your other GT reports and as I was reading I was wondering how you managed to consistently score that high on shock tactics? Do you always forward deploy the incursors, hope you go first and step on an enemy objective per turn? Until now I was firmly in the troop tax camp but you made me reconsider my stance, now that less Obsec is running around. I also tried to play Elimnators, but it seems I never know what to really DO with them. I'm looking at Invictors for being right in the opponents face and having a lot of heavy weapons though I don't like it that in 50% of games I won't be able to do that. It also boosts the "Bring it Down"-score higher.

 

Thank you for your detailed battle reports on here!

[greatcrusade08]

Wow congrats.

im a bit rusty do please forgive the silly question.

how does one unlock a permanent dev doctrine?

[Captain Idaho]

Well done and very interesting to read your take on things. Beating Custodes right now is also impressive, twice no less!

 

What was the kill tally of Guilliman you reckon?

 

I'm surprised you're intending to get rid of the Devastators and Eradicators mind. The Dreadnoughts provide plenty of firepower but in tournament play surely the threat of at least Eradicators can be decisive?

 

Still, you'll have the Eliminators.

 

I feel the Devastators and Hellblasters with Assault Plasma are doing the same thing really. You've got 12 S5 shots that are damage 2 and won't kill the bearer vs 15 S6 shots going to S7 to get to Damage 2 and might blow you up. The Devastators also get an additional 2 Multi-melta shots, 1 model fires at BS2+ and at the moment in the game a free Combi-weapon on the Sergeant. Then there's a free cherub too to fire the Multi-melta twice (probably the choice)!

 

And in comparison the Devastators are 125pts vs Hellblasters at 150pts!

 

I just don't think the trade is worth it.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

16 hours ago, Enda said:

This is the kind of tactical mastery I aspire to! I've seen your other GT reports and as I was reading I was wondering how you managed to consistently score that high on shock tactics? Do you always forward deploy the incursors, hope you go first and step on an enemy objective per turn? Until now I was firmly in the troop tax camp but you made me reconsider my stance, now that less Obsec is running around. I also tried to play Elimnators, but it seems I never know what to really DO with them. I'm looking at Invictors for being right in the opponents face and having a lot of heavy weapons though I don't like it that in 50% of games I won't be able to do that. It also boosts the "Bring it Down"-score higher.

 

Thank you for your detailed battle reports on here!

Hello, thank you! 

That is a question I get a lot, and it's understandable given my list is quite slow. But it's also the reason I have so many phobos units, the combination of forward deploy and obsec is extremely useful for Shock Tactics. It's not so much that I can aggressively take enemy objectives, but it's having the bodies available to run onto a point - and then have my guns clear out whatever is on there (or if the enemy isn't obsec, the incusors just take the point by virtue of obsec).

And, as you say, a lot of people have pivoted away from objective secured and that opens up the scoring for me. 

With Eliminators, it's just that they do chip damage (particularly against 3 wound infantry and vehicles) but the carbine allows them to move back to safety, or move to take up space; there's also some cute things you can do with Rites of War and Eliminators. For example - the sergeant's carbine is assault, so the unit can advance, fire the carbine, and then move again - which is a total of 12"+d6 (potentially with a +1 if Guilliman can buff their advance with his aura); then if they can string back to the techmarine's Rites of War aura, you can sneak away objectives people otherwise thought were safe. 

I know some players really like Invictors, but they've always been underwhelming for me.  For one thing I want to go second the majority of the time, but also the invictors at T6 and no -1d are surprisingly squishy. I also find, unless you're a successor chapter, the output of invictors isn't phenomenal - and I always run main chapter Ultramarines. Other people may have different experiences, but I'm firmly in camp dreadnought. Plus, as you've noted, I don't want to push my Bring It Down score higher. One of the strengths of my list is that it doesn't really give anything up for secondaries.  Which is so helpful

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

16 hours ago, greatcrusade08 said:

Wow congrats.

im a bit rusty do please forgive the silly question.

how does one unlock a permanent dev doctrine?

Thanks! Good to see a name from long long ago, are you still all in on the 10th Company?

The recent balance datasheet removed the bit about having to progress through doctrines. It's a bit weird, and I don't like it thematically, but it's undeniably very powerful. Especially with the new iteration of the Codex Warfare secondary; especially if you build your army around, or your army does it very well (like mine).

Somewhat sad that an extra pip of ap is better, for me, than our "Super Doctrine" but there we are!

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

14 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Well done and very interesting to read your take on things. Beating Custodes right now is also impressive, twice no less!

 

What was the kill tally of Guilliman you reckon?

 

I'm surprised you're intending to get rid of the Devastators and Eradicators mind. The Dreadnoughts provide plenty of firepower but in tournament play surely the threat of at least Eradicators can be decisive?

 

Still, you'll have the Eliminators.

 

I feel the Devastators and Hellblasters with Assault Plasma are doing the same thing really. You've got 12 S5 shots that are damage 2 and won't kill the bearer vs 15 S6 shots going to S7 to get to Damage 2 and might blow you up. The Devastators also get an additional 2 Multi-melta shots, 1 model fires at BS2+ and at the moment in the game a free Combi-weapon on the Sergeant. Then there's a free cherub too to fire the Multi-melta twice (probably the choice)!

 

And in comparison the Devastators are 125pts vs Hellblasters at 150pts!

 

I just don't think the trade is worth it.

Hey Idaho, thank you - I was really happy to defeat Custodes twice, they're a trick faction for marines some times. 

Hah, the primarch had an excellent shift. Against GSC he just killed whatever models he could get near or shoot, but there were so many of them I'm not sure what he killed.

Against Scars I know he killed: Korsarro Khan, 4 Assault Centurions, 6 Terminators, 1 outrider and 3 plasma inceptors.

Against Custodes round 3 he killed possibly some Sagitarum at range, he finished off one pallas with his gun, but his main kill was the melee duel with Trajan to decide the game.

Against Imperial Knights he killed 3 Armigers and half of a Paladin

Against Custodes round 5 he killed a blade champion, a Shield Captain in Allarus armour, 2 custodian guard and a vertus praetor.

He's just so good, I still wish he had the Infantry keyword, but his multiple auras and his personal physical threat are just so good with my army, dreadnoughts love all of his buffs.

He's still quite expensive, and the inability to go through walls is frustrating, but I wouldn't replace him for anything. I know there's a lot of debate about Calgar and more stuff vs Guilliman, but in all of my experimentation I've always found Guilliman comes out on top for me.

As for the hellblasters, I actually really agree. I want them to be useable, and with the price drop I can see ways I can leverage them, but I've already found a list variation I'd prefer more! Just a shame list submission for round 1 of the league has already passed (typical!). In this format though we are allowed to change our list at the start of every month, before we know who our opponents are, so I'll only have to use the hellblasters in one game if I really hate them. So there's that at least. 

Essentially I'll be going back to 2 units of eliminators and 3 eradicators. Eliminators are just consistently useful and, as you say, the Eradicators provide a threat that people have to work around.

[Emperor Ming]

Super impressive 5-0 with Ultras esp your secondary scores

 

Does the ultra rules really benefit dreads?

 

compared to the likes of iron hands? more of a general knowledge question since I'm not a marine player

 

 

[Captain Idaho]

That's fair enough. List variation means a lot to some of my friends too and I enjoy playing them.

 

It wouldn't be a poor choice overall anyway.

 

I like to see the kill tallies of Guilliman. I think I'd take Guilliman in my tournament lists going forward for 9th now. He provides so much more than any other character simply because he can lead well and is a threat no one can take lightly.

 

Funny that a Blade Champion tried his arm and got smashed into the dirt.

 

When's your next practice game?

[greatcrusade08]

2 hours ago, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

Thanks! Good to see a name from long long ago, are you still all in on the 10th Company?

The recent balance datasheet removed the bit about having to progress through doctrines. It's a bit weird, and I don't like it thematically, but it's undeniably very powerful. Especially with the new iteration of the Codex Warfare secondary; especially if you build your army around, or your army does it very well (like mine).

Somewhat sad that an extra pip of ap is better, for me, than our "Super Doctrine" but there we are!

 

I had stepped away for a while to work on infantry themed guard, but am returning with a vengeance, relying on my ultra-bros to fill in the gaps in my knowledge.

I like the idea of permanent dev doctrines  to add some kick to my sniper riles and las fusils. Really makes a difference, -2ap snipers, yes please :)

But the codex warfare secondary is really good: 2vp for every unit destroyed by heavy weapons, i also like shock tactics.

Ill be running 4 units of infiltrators, but land speeder storms and scout bikes etc too. holding obs wont be easy, but taking them should be doable.

 

I have a 10th co thread open, just for theorycrafting whilst i rebuild the force, im aiming to be built by end of Feb

 

anyway gratz on the win, well deserved, solid generalship!!

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by greatcrusade08

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Super impressive 5-0 with Ultras esp your secondary scores

 

Does the ultra rules really benefit dreads?

 

compared to the likes of iron hands? more of a general knowledge question since I'm not a marine player

 

 

Thanks Ming :) 

They really do. Iron hands gain the re-roll 1s from their super doctrine, and some extra resilience with their chapter tactic. However Ultramarines have numerous things which grant full re-rolls to Core (such as Guilliman and Seal of Oath), as well as the Rapid Redeployment stratagem which is incredibly useful. Additionally, Master of Prescience (-1 to be hit) from Tigurius aids with resilience, and lastly the ability to fall back and shoot which prevents redemptors from being locked up in combat (as they can't shoot the macroplasma in combat, due to blast). 

Iron Hands run massed vehicles better (like mass gladiators/storm speeders etc) but my dreadnought focussed list benefits heavily from the Ultramarines supplement.

[Captain Idaho]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Does the ultra rules really benefit dreads?

 

compared to the likes of iron hands? more of a general knowledge question since I'm not a marine player

 

For my part, though @Brother Sergeant Scarus will have his own answers, Ultramarines really enjoy Dreadnoughts as they supplement our infantry well with heavy weapons and melee punching power.

 

As Ultramarines we get plenty of rerolls and you can use Dreadnoughts to extend your reroll auras around the table, further enhancing our quality.

 

****

Ninja'd!

Edited January 30, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

That's fair enough. List variation means a lot to some of my friends too and I enjoy playing them.

 

It wouldn't be a poor choice overall anyway.

 

I like to see the kill tallies of Guilliman. I think I'd take Guilliman in my tournament lists going forward for 9th now. He provides so much more than any other character simply because he can lead well and is a threat no one can take lightly.

 

Funny that a Blade Champion tried his arm and got smashed into the dirt.

 

When's your next practice game?

He really is great. There are some games where he never even fights but he's still useful. I get so much value out of the reroll 1s/+1 advance and charge within 12". And the Hand of Dominion is a surprisingly decent gun.

Sometimes the 3++ invulnerable, when combined with a cp re-roll, is just such a hard nut to crack. Guilliman died once over the entire weekend, and even though he didn't stand back up, he'd already killed about 500 points of knights by then! The multiple weapon profiles are also really handy, considering he doesn't have any innate way to re-roll to wound. The Hand of Dominion, for example, is fantastic in to things like Assault Centurions or Death Guard terminators. 

I have a game lined up on the 6th, my first game against the new guard codex (my opponent doesn't have any kasrkin though, so I'll be escaping the worst of it!). Might have my first league game before then, not sure.

 

[Paulinus]

Very cool list and good run down.  I’ve only played 3 AOO games with a similar list.  
 

I play with the same troops make up, G man, Tiggy and the Techmarine.

 

my differences are that I have 3x redemptors and a 5 man bolt aggressor squad.  2x surpressors and 2x eliminators 

 

Totally agree on your troop argument plus they really help with March for Maccragge.  And I play against a daemon player regularly so the infiltrators are worth their points to mess that sort of army up.  
 

working on a list for a tourney in a few weeks.  
 

i can see the value of keeping the volcons and I’ve been trying to fit them in.  Your list is a decent baseline to see how that could work.  With DA being a likely meta army it might be worth ke reconsidering throwing them in,  I’ve had good success in the past with them. 
 

I’m the same way as you, I’ve always played ultras since the rogue trader days.  I sometimes get asked if I’m a new player at tourneys from people that don’t know me lol.

 

anyways, solid post. 

[Prot]

Great showing. I really do wish the Ultra's weren't so reliant on Guilliman, but with the current rules making UM a challenge to play, I don't blame you.

 

I play Scars a lot too... I'm surprised he stuck out Plasma Inceptors after the point hike. What a nerf though to Plasma Inceptors.

 

Honestly Scars would just bounce off of that. Once you peel away the centurions, I think he's done for threats. Bladeguard are good with White Scars, but against G-man they will fail.

 

I'm a bit of a sucker for named characters, and Guilliman holding his own is really good to hear. Great job.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

6 hours ago, Paulinus said:

Very cool list and good run down.  I’ve only played 3 AOO games with a similar list.  
 

I play with the same troops make up, G man, Tiggy and the Techmarine.

 

my differences are that I have 3x redemptors and a 5 man bolt aggressor squad.  2x surpressors and 2x eliminators 

 

Totally agree on your troop argument plus they really help with March for Maccragge.  And I play against a daemon player regularly so the infiltrators are worth their points to mess that sort of army up.  
 

working on a list for a tourney in a few weeks.  
 

i can see the value of keeping the volcons and I’ve been trying to fit them in.  Your list is a decent baseline to see how that could work.  With DA being a likely meta army it might be worth ke reconsidering throwing them in,  I’ve had good success in the past with them. 
 

I’m the same way as you, I’ve always played ultras since the rogue trader days.  I sometimes get asked if I’m a new player at tourneys from people that don’t know me lol.

 

anyways, solid post. 

Hah, I have a very similar experience - I've played Ultramarines since 2nd ed. and it does bring a smile to my face when people ask if I'm new, just because I'm playing Ultramarines! Always better to be underestimated though I suppose. 

I totally agree, infiltrators are absolutely worth their weight in gold. Especially against armies like Daemons and GSC, but also against a lot of the teleport abilities that are out there such as Leagues of Votann, TSons and, in theory, the Barbicant's key kasrkin. 

Combined with the free Helix Gauntlet and the massive points cut, infiltrators feel like a great troops choice. There's definitely an argument to running my list as three redemptors and one volcon, but I've been enjoying having 2 of each. Quite looking forward to getting my hands on the new brutalis whenever that's released.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

2 hours ago, Prot said:

Great showing. I really do wish the Ultra's weren't so reliant on Guilliman, but with the current rules making UM a challenge to play, I don't blame you.

 

I play Scars a lot too... I'm surprised he stuck out Plasma Inceptors after the point hike. What a nerf though to Plasma Inceptors.

 

Honestly Scars would just bounce off of that. Once you peel away the centurions, I think he's done for threats. Bladeguard are good with White Scars, but against G-man they will fail.

 

I'm a bit of a sucker for named characters, and Guilliman holding his own is really good to hear. Great job.

Thank you, and I hear you - it is a bit of a shame that Ultramarines feel so heavily reliant on Guilliman (and Tigurius too). Guilliman is my favourite character from the lore, so it's nice to get to use him a lot (plus I spent ages painting the model!) but I definitely feel like he's a bit of a crutch for me. For one thing the bonus cp alone is massive.

Ah, this tournament was before the points got reverted, so he had 6 40 points plasma inceptors. Like you say though, against my army they really don't have a tonne of great targets, and the infiltrators help limit the spots they can drop in on. One of my most played opponents plays White Scars so that helped me too - and like you say, Guilliman picking up the Centurions and then most of the terminators was really the death knell for his army. 

I've got games against Guard, Bloody Rose Sisters, and then Guard again this month. Hopefully the guard errata drops sometime soon and saves me some pain!

[Captain Idaho]

Just came to my attention Guilliman HAS to take a Warlord Trait! It says so in the Warlord section of the Ultramarines supplement. 

 

That was disappointing to see as it's such a waste of a CP!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah it’s a super waste for sure.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

10 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Just came to my attention Guilliman HAS to take a Warlord Trait! It says so in the Warlord section of the Ultramarines supplement. 

 

That was disappointing to see as it's such a waste of a CP!

Ah because of the "must" wording. I'd always taken that to mean he must take that trait, not any other trait, and now that he can't take a trait if you don't use the Warlord Trait strategem he's not technically eligible to take the trait. 

I think the best thing to do is check with any TO of a tournament you attend with him. It would be unfortunate if someone ruled that his warlord trait is, effectively, "lose 1 cp" but if that's how anyone ruled against me I'd obviously comply. 

The dangers of 8th edition supplement wordings I suppse!

 

[Captain Idaho]

Indeed yes, left behind etc.

 

Be a harsh tournament organiser to refuse it eh.

 

I'm following suit and building a tournament list that takes Guilliman as well. And Dreadnoughts. And tanks. And Terminators. 

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

Haha, there's so much good stuff to include eh?!

Let me know what you come up with, and how any games go.

I'd quite like to test:

Guilliman
Tigurius
Master of the Forge

5 Infiltrators
5 Infiltrators
5 Incursors
5 Incursors

Volcon with Cyclone
Volcon with Cyclone
Redemptor
Redemptor
Victrix Guard

Gladiator Reaper
3 Eliminators, Bolt Carbine and 2 Las Fusils
3 Eliminators, Bolt Carbine and 2 Las Fusils

It would put the amount of Bring It Down I give away to 9, rather than 7, but one of those 9 points is Guilliman (so not an easy point) and even in the worst case scenario, 9 points is not exactly loads to give away.

Between the +1 to hit from the Techmarine and re-roll 1s from Guilliman, the Gladiator can put out some fairly ferocious fire

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I'm favouring a big old tank with Master of the Forge support. I like it as you got the Redemptors to soak attention and the T8 of the Gladiator means speculative firepower won't have as much of an impact.

 

Bit light on the ground for infantry wounds but I think it could be quite good actually. Sticky objectives helps a lot.

[philoktitis]

As a new player, this post and discussion have been super interesting/illuminating. Have you considered doing a deep dive on how you play Ultras? Or perhaps you have already done this in another post? I would be extremely interested in such an analysis!