Arks of Omen - 5 round event report

[Paulinus]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:59 AM, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

Ah because of the "must" wording. I'd always taken that to mean he must take that trait, not any other trait, and now that he can't take a trait if you don't use the Warlord Trait strategem he's not technically eligible to take the trait. 

I think the best thing to do is check with any TO of a tournament you attend with him. It would be unfortunate if someone ruled that his warlord trait is, effectively, "lose 1 cp" but if that's how anyone ruled against me I'd obviously comply. 

The dangers of 8th edition supplement wordings I suppse!

 

And probably why BattleScribe forces it as well. 

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

9 hours ago, philoktitis said:

As a new player, this post and discussion have been super interesting/illuminating. Have you considered doing a deep dive on how you play Ultras? Or perhaps you have already done this in another post? I would be extremely interested in such an analysis!

Thank you, that's really good to hear. Mostly that's why I like to share these reports; if something I'm sharing is useful for other Ultramarines, that's great. We have a lot of strengths that sometimes get overlooked for more overtly powerful factions (such as Iron Hands).

There are a couple of GT reports I've done below:

Those are older reports, so before our recent buffs, but the principles are largely the same (and if anything my game plan is now easier to achieve due to points cuts, better secondaries and "Sticky" objectives for marine troops.

A lot of it, like many things, comes down to practice. I own three armies (Ultramarines, Daemons and Necrons) but 99.9% of the games I play are using my Ultramarines and I've been playing since 2nd edition so I've had a fair old time to practice!

My general points would be:

1) People tend to underestimate Ultramarines. We don't "math-hammer" quite as hard as some chapters, but our access to multiple sources of re-rolls, redeployment strategems and excellent characters really do combine powerfully.

2) I tend to run dreadnoughts as they get a lot of leverage out of re-rolls and auras, and can function well in multiple phases such as shooting, overwatch (with Guilliman's full re-rolls) and melee, but our chapter tactic does mean I can also take purely shooting focused dreadnoughts. Being tagged in combat by a consolidate is far less of an issue for our units than for many other factions. Redemptors with macro plasma, for example, really enjoy being able to fall back and shoot (and also charge if needed, via the "Fall-back and re-engage" strategem, whereas the redemptors of other chapters would either have to fall back and not shoot, or stay in combat and not be able to fire any blast weapons they have such as macro-plasma and icarus pods. 

3) Resist the temptation to cluster too many units around Guilliman. His aura of full re-rolls to hit is fantastic, but if your entire army is clustered around him you're limited in the enemy units you can attack (due to terrain) and the relatively slow speed can limit the number of objectives a heavy castle can interact with. Instead, make use of over-lapping auras; Guilliman has an aura of re-roll 1s to hit for friendly Imperium units within 12, and dreadnoughts can use Wisdom of the Ancients for re-roll 1s to wound for Core within 6", between those things you can have units which are a long way from Guilliman still re-rolling 1s to hit and wound, without having to "castle" too heavily around the primarch.

4) I like to include a lot of phobos troops. They enable easier access to "sticky" objectives (for example they start the battle deployed on an objective, and if I go first it becomes sticky at the end of the command phase, and my unit can then run off and do something else. Whether that's move blocking enemies, performing actions, running onto other objectives for shock assault or even using the Guerilla Tactics strategem to go into reserves for later in the game.

5) I frequently get asked how a slow army reliably scores Shock Tactics, and again that's partly due to the large number of obsec units I take. Running onto an objective and then shooting enemy units off of it, with my dreadnoughts, is just as effective as "flipping" the objective using melee units. Though you have to plan your deployments and movements to enable firing lines. Here in the UK, especially where I'm based, we use the LGT/WHT/UKTC terrain packs (I don't know why it has so many different names!), so requires a different approach to, say, the GW terrain layouts. 

6) Really familiarise yourself with your datasheets and strategems. I know this sounds obvious, but I see a lot of Ultramarine battle reports where our special characters aren't used correctly (for example people not using Tigurius' Master of Prescience, or not selecting the correct melee weapon for Guilliman, relevant to the enemy he's fighting) and some of the more niche strategems can be really useful. For example Courage and Honour. 1cp in the morale phase for +1LD to Ultramarines. Doesn't sound that appealing, but if you have an Infiltrator sergeant alive on an objective, having lost four of his friends, that bonus leadership puts him to Leadership 10 (in combination with our chapter tactic) and means he cannot fail morale. If he's on an objective, that can be absolutely crucial for primary points - rather than risking the 1/6 leadership failure, or paying 2cp for the once per game auto-pass morale, Courage and Honour has come up at least 6 times for me in 9th. Which isn't THAT often given the number of games I play, but each time it's made a significant contribution to me winning a game. Situational, but very handy. Similarly Avenge the Fallen (1cp for re-roll 1s to hit, for your entire army, against an enemy unit which has killed an Ultramarine unit) can be really handy. Again it alleviates some of the burden of clustering around Guilliman's re-rolls, but it also works for non core units and can be very handy if Guilliman dies. There's an example of that in one of my GT reports where I lose Guilliman turn 1 due to a mistake on my part, but Avenge the Fallen throughout the course of the game keeps my shooting efficiency at a decent level. I probably use the strat more in that one game than any other 30 games combined, but again it was a niche stratagem proving invaluable in the circumstances. 

7) Victrix Guard are incredible units, they're cheap, tough and disposable. They're one of my favourite things for throwing into the middle of the table for Oath of Moment, or performing actions where they have to surive to my next command phase such as March for Macragge. I get the feeling they'll be combined into one unit with Calgar when the next supplement is released, but for now they're incredible.

8) Lastly, as things stand, my army makes very little use of our Super Doctrine (Scions of Guilliman) with so many heavy weapons, and with dreadnoughts already ignoring the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons, it's much more efficient for my army to stay in devastator doctrine all game for the additional ap. It also helps massively with scoring the Codex Warfare secondary. I have a feeling at least one of those things will change with the next balance patch, but for now it works so may as well leverage it!

If there's anything specific you'd like to ask, or any general questions, please just ask and hopefully I can expand on things. 

 

[INKS]

how is the current list looking?

[INKS]

Also Volcon? I can't place the shorthand?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Volkite Contemptor.

[Emperor Ming]

I wonder if Calgar is a suitable sub for RobG now, Calgar got even cheaper and his warlord trait isnt terrible either

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

22 hours ago, INKS said:

how is the current list looking?

Current version of the list is:

Guilliman
Tigurius - Psychic Fortress, Might of Heroes, Null-zone
Primaris Master of the Forge - Rites of War, Seal of Oath

5 Incursors with mine
5 Incursors with mine
5 Infiltrators with Helix Gauntlet
5 Infiltrators with Helix Gauntlet

Relic Contemptor with Cyclone Missile Launcher, 2 Twin Volkite Culverins
Relic Contemptor with Cyclone Missile Launcher, 2 Twin Volkite Culverins
Redemptor with Macroplasma, Icarus Pod, Onslaught Cannon and Storm Bolters
Redemptor with Macroplasma, Icarus Pod, Onslaught Cannon and Storm Bolters
2 Victrix Honour Guard

5 Hellblasters with Assault Plasma Incinerators, Sergeant has Honoured Sergeant: Master-crafted Weapon
3 Eliminators with 2 Las Fusils and Instigator Bolt Carbine
3 Eliminators with 2 Las Fusils and Instigator Bolt Carbine

In complete honesty there's a couple of changes I want to make, but will have to wait till next month. Nothing too major, basically shifting to this:

Guilliman
Tigurius - Psychic Fortress, Might of Heroes, Null-zone
Primaris techmarine - Rites of War, Seal of Oath

5 Assault Intercessors, Thunder Hammer on Sergeant
5 Infiltrators with Helix Gauntlet
5 Infiltrators with Helix Gauntlet
5 Infiltrators with Helix Gauntlet

Relic Contemptor with Cyclone Missile Launcher, 2 Twin Volkite Culverins
Relic Contemptor with Cyclone Missile Launcher, 2 Twin Volkite Culverins
Redemptor with Macroplasma, Icarus Pod, Onslaught Cannon and Storm Bolters
Redemptor with Macroplasma, Icarus Pod, Onslaught Cannon and Storm Bolters
2 Victrix Honour Guard
2 Victrix Honour Guard

4 Eradicators with Heavy Melta Rifles
3 Eliminators with 2 Las Fusils and Instigator Bolt Carbine

 

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

15 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

I wonder if Calgar is a suitable sub for RobG now, Calgar got even cheaper and his warlord trait isnt terrible either

So, with Calgar he gives you 2cp, but then there's 1cp to take his Warlord Trait. Guilliman gives you 3cp (2cp if a judge ruled you were forced to take his trait). So Calgar gives a net gain of 1, and a 5+ regen capped to once a round. Guilliman gives you three. 

Personally I find it's a lot more handy to have more cp up-front, rather than the regen. Especially as most of the time I'm spending 2cp on Rapid Redeployment so every cp helps a lot. 

The points difference is 140, which is something like 3 Eradicators or an Invictor Warsuit - which isn't terrible, but Calgar's buffs aren't anywhere near as good; full re-rolls to hit for one unit, re-roll 1s within 6" compared to Reroll all hits in a 6" aura, re-roll 1s to wound for Core in a 6" aura, re-roll 1s to hit within 12, +1 advance and charge and re-roll morale within 12".

Calgar, as infantry, can move through walls which is a big bonus, but his personal threat is much lower than Guilliman - and his gun is also less powerful. 

I don't think there'd be anything wrong with taking Calgar, but the way my list works/the way I play it, I definitely want Guilliman

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

15 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

I wonder if Calgar is a suitable sub for RobG now, Calgar got even cheaper and his warlord trait isnt terrible either

Calgar can be a true beat stick, especially if you buff him via Tiggy. His only weakness is his gauntlets are random d3 damage.

[Captain Idaho]

Calgar isn't a bad character, but does nothing for non-Core units if you're taking tanks and can't reach as many units with his aura as Guilliman thanks to the additional rules. Guilliman also acts like a free Lieutenant to Ultramarines.

 

Overall, Guilliman in competitive environments is near auto-include. His combat potential on top of it is even more pronounced.

 

I'd say stick with Guilliman in your lists too, @Brother Sergeant Scarus. I quite like the changes you're heading for, mainly for the Eradicators. I wasn't sold on the Hellblasters with Assault Plasma.

[Cruor Vault]

@Captain Idaho I heartily agree on the Eradicators VS Hellblasters.  Eradicators actually have a slim chance of surviving for a turn if they outflank, and 3-4x 40mm bases are a LOT easier to sneak into a building if they start on the battle line.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

I played a game vs the new Guard last night.

Recover the Relics.

My secondaries:

Shock Tactics
Codex Warfare
Raise the Banners

His secondaries:

Inflexible Command
Boots on the Ground
Raise the Banners

My starting cp: 4
His starting cp: 1

My list: The list I linked above with hellblasters

Opponent's list:

Cadian Castellan with Redeploy trait
Command Squad with an Astropath with the cp power and a relic
Tank commander with Meticulous Calculator, Gatekeeper and Lead by Example

6x10 Cadian Shock Troops
Commissar 

2x5 Rough Riders

2 Leman Russ with Plasma Executioners
2 Leman Russ with Vanquisher cannons

3 Chimeras 

I think Recover the Relics is a pretty poorly designed mission to be honest, for a lot of armies it's really punishing to not be able to gain CP in certain situations and the roll off to go first is pretty significant (and usually my army much prefers to go second). 

I've included a little terrain guide to try and explain a few things. Anything in blue is an obscuring ruin with windows. So you can step on the actual "L" itself and see through the windows, but you can safely stage a fraction of an inch behind them to not be seen.

The red Ls block line of sight and have no windows, the green lines are obstacles with the dense cover keyword.

It's worth noting that the objective "top left" and "bottom right" (as we look at it) can only be held if you're standing on the windowed terrain (and thus can be shot, though they give light cover) but this mission is hold one hold two, so is less punishing than it would be in a hold 2/3 mission.

We go back and forth with deployment, I have plenty of space to hide everything behind obscurring ruins, I put my hellblasters in reserve and put one squad of incursors staged behind the blue L on the bottom left, and one squad on the top right 9" away from his deployment zone. My infiltrators start strung out between my home objective and the bottom left objective, and one squad is on the top left objective. 

The idea being that if I go first it'll make all three of my objectives sticky and I can then move off, which is huge in this mission as I then can't be shot off the top left objective. It also means that if I go first the incursors deployed aggressively can charge the infantry holding his top righ tobjective (which he's forced to do in order to receive CP because of the mission rules) which will also allow me to score shock tactics, tag a leman russ and hopefully score one point for the mission tertiary (score one point for each unit killed, per round, to a max of three).

My opponent has a trickier time with such a large number of vehicles, he puts his rough riders in reserve and hides the tank commander and vanquishers as best he can, then the executioners cluster top right, but realistically there's probably no where they can get to that I can't get *some* guns on to them.

I win the roll to go first, and we both use our redeploys. He wins the roll off which forces me to do my redeploys first (as per the wording of Rapid Redeployment) which is a shame, but not huge issue - I mostly use it to drag the redemptors from my back line and they take up positions on opposite sides of the small red L on the bottom of my deployment, I also move Tigurius up.

In my turn I put master of prescience on the top most redemptor (above the small L) and give it +1 to hit with the techmarine, my elimiantors raise banners on my bottom and middle objectives, the victrix guard raise a banner on the top most objective. They're now visible but with a 2+ save, 3++, light cover and access to transhuman (and with the banner already raised and the objective sticky from the infiltrators who were on it during my command phase) they're such and investment to try and kill, for no real gain. 

I have a contemptor behind the blue L at the top of my deployment, it uses Wisdom of the Ancients for re-roll 1s to wound (as it can see an executioner) and my incursors move forward to charge the cadians holding his home objective. 

My bottorm most redemptor just advances to get behind the blue L at the bottom, and the one with all the buffs hides as much as it can behind that same ruin, but with LoS on another executioner. Guilliman, the techmarine and tigurius move up with them.

Tigurius perils on a double 6 to cast psychic fortress, I reroll it into a 3, so the spell fails. He does get Might of Heroes off on the redemptor though. So it is -1 to hit from master of prescience, behind dense terrain and T8 - almost as tough as I can make it, just lacking the invuln. My two dreads do some reasonable damage on the two executioners, putting them on mid bracket but otherwise OK. My incursors charge and kill 6 of the cadians (who then lose 2 to morale) and tag one of the leman runss. This gives me a 4 for shock assault and robs my opponent of a cp due to the mission rule (he didn't deploy anything visible on the bottom objective other than a unit which wisely re-deployed away once he knew I was going first. The angles made his turn a lot more complicated to try and unpack, and whilst the tank commander took a redemptor to 6 wounds, the bracketed Executioner couldn't finish it - BS4, degraded to 5, +1 to hit from turret weapon, -1 to hit from Master of Prescience, -1 to hit from dense. It opted instead to go after my topmost contemptor, but between his lack of cp, a cp reroll save for me and the degraded profile it left the contemptor on 4 wounds. The incursors lost a couple of models to the leman russ they were tagged with, but survived a charging cadian squad and killed the 2 remaining soliders they'd trapped in combat, netting me 1 point for the tertiary.

From this point on, I could sort of explain in detail, but I don't really need to.  It isn't often games are decided so early on, but I scored a 12 for primary, had 3 banners up, and in this turn I killed the tank commander, finished both the executioners, repaired my redemptor back to 9 wounds, the incursors fell out of combat with the charging cadians who were obliterated by onslaught gatling cannons. So I also scored 8 codex warfare in one turn. 

In my opponent's turn, with his 1 banner, 1 cp and dwindling resources he moved out and took shots with his vanquishers. Both missed, and they died in my next turn.

We went through the motions but the final result was pretty clear and my opponent decided to concede. I would absolutely have maxed banners and codex warfare, maxed primary and scored somewhere between 8/12/15 for Shock Tactics, just depending on what my opponent did with his remaining guardsmen. 

It was interesting to get a test game ahead of my league game on the 28th - that opponent also owns Lord Solar and kasrkin so probably an entirely different prospect to take on. Honestly this wasn't the most fun game for me or my opponent, I'd much rather lose a close and back-and-forth game than just have a game like this. The icursors depriving him of 2cp by themselves was just a bit  ridiculous, and I can see why this mission is always relegated to the bottom of event packs.

It and Abandoned Sanctuaries are by far my least favourite missions.

I have another game against Sisters next week, not a league game though so I'll see if he'd like to do a different mission. Fingers crossed, but he is also in the league and may want to practice his list!

 

[Captain Idaho]

Nice win. You're getting some good results.

 

Out of interest, how did the Hellblasters do? In fact, how did you rate each element of the army in general?

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

Thanks, Idaho. 

It feels like the army in it's current iteration certainly suits me well, and things have definitely worked out (as a related aside, I managed to finish the ITC rankings as No.1 Ultramarine in Europe, 4th in the world and 19th overall space marine in the world. So that was pretty cool! My goal was just to hit top five ultras UK, so very pleased with how it has ended up).

Something I forgot to mention in my write up is that I put the hellblasters in strat reserve, and they turned up and nuked some rough riders and that was it. So not enough data to say for sure really, but I am wishing I hadn't locked myself in to them for the month!

In terms of ratings for how things function in my army I honestly would rate all of the following as 10/10

Guilliman, Tigurius, Techmarine, Victrix Guard, Infiltrators, one squad of incursors, Redemptors and Contemptors. They're the core of what makes everything tick and it all fuses together really well.

The second unit of incursors and the 2 units of eliminators I'd probably give an 8. They do a job, do it really well, and appeal a lot more than several of the other options which would take up the same points. I really like having 4 units of innate obsec with forward deploy, and the eiliminators can do some very cute objective play with their move-shoot-move (especially when rites of war is on the table). The raw damage output of the 2 eliminator squads is less than, say, 3 eradicators, but being able to duck back behind cover is just fantastic.

Plus their BS2+ means that at worst they're hitting on 3s - which is fine with so many sources of re-rolls.

The 2nd units of incursors I'm looking at replacing with a 3rd unit of Infiltrators. There are so many teleport/deepstrike/strat reserve/drop-pod/GSC/Daemons to worry about, and now they're so much cheaper (and have a gauntlet for extra resilience) they've been really really useful in all games. Just need to finish painting them! 

The main elephant in the room is the 150 points that's wrapped up in hellblasters - and I change my mind on this so often. Sometimes it's 3 eradicators, which bring some nice anti-tank, but as I camp dev doctrine they're hitting on 4s most of the time, unless I spend a CP and that's kinda annoying in itself. 

I could add a gladiator reaper, if I owned one. Plus a gladiator (or an invictor, or a storm speeder) would bump up my BID to 9. Which isn't horrendous, but it's still more tempting for opponents than the 7 I currently offer. 

Seeing that I'd have to find 10 points to upgrade one unit of incursors to infiltrators, I'm technically working with 140 points. There's honestly part of me that's tempted to throw in 2 individual Invader ATVs. They're not core, but they do benefit from the re-rolls 1s from Guilliman, and their multi-meltas don't suffer the penalty for moving and shooting as they're bikes. They also bring some anti-chaff guns in their auto bolt rifles. It's not much, but 12 total shots (from the two of them) does help a bit with chaff clearing. And it makes them more useful into horde armies than eradicators would be.

They're also much faster than anything else in my list (21" of movement if they advance and start the move within 12 of Guilliman) so I can happily zip one off onto an objective etc. without caring too much that they might kill my 70 point model. They can also benefit from strats like Transhuman Physiology (though it would be pretty specific circumstances to use it on one ATV), Sons of Guilliman for an independent re-roll 1s to hit, Martial Precision to make one multi-melta shot auto hit etc. etc.

I just keep testing things out till I find what I'm totally happy with. 

[Cruor Vault]

@Brother Sergeant Scarus What are your thoughts regarding Invictors VS Volkons?  Do you find you prefer the firepower and MW outputs over the early game pressure Invictors would supply?  Ultramarines are one of the only chapters that have a chance to really make them shine.

 

Alternatively, how would you rate a list running Calgar instead of Guilliman in order to Squeeze in 2 Volkon, 2 Redemptors, 2 Invictors AND 2 Victrix?

 

++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) [113 PL, 4CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Victrix Honour Guard [3 PL, 55pts]

Victrix Honour Guard [3 PL, 55pts]

 

+ HQ +

Chief Librarian Tigurius [7 PL, 120pts]: 2) Might of Heroes, 3) Null Zone (Aura), 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura)

 

Marneus Calgar [11 PL, 1CP, 160pts]: Adept of the Codex, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Warlord

 

Primaris Techmarine [5 PL, -1CP, 85pts]: Chapter Command:  Master of the Forge, Seal of Oath, Stratagem: Relic

 

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 100pts]: Helix gauntlet
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 100pts]: Helix gauntlet
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 100pts]: Helix gauntlet
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

+ Elites +

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 140pts]: Twin ironhail autocannon

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 140pts]: Twin ironhail autocannon

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 195pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 195pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

 

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [14 PL, 180pts]: Heavy melta rifle
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol
. Eradicator Sgt
. Eradicator with MM

 

++ Total: [113 PL, 4CP, 1,995pts] ++

Edited February 7, 2023 by Cruor Vault
Something like this...

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

1 hour ago, Cruor Vault said:

@Brother Sergeant Scarus What are your thoughts regarding Invictors VS Volkons?  Do you find you prefer the firepower and MW outputs over the early game pressure Invictors would supply?  Ultramarines are one of the only chapters that have a chance to really make them shine.

 

Alternatively, how would you rate a list running Calgar instead of Guilliman in order to Squeeze in 2 Volkon, 2 Redemptors, 2 Invictors AND 2 Victrix?

 

++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) [113 PL, 4CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Victrix Honour Guard [3 PL, 55pts]

Victrix Honour Guard [3 PL, 55pts]

 

+ HQ +

Chief Librarian Tigurius [7 PL, 120pts]: 2) Might of Heroes, 3) Null Zone (Aura), 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura)

 

Marneus Calgar [11 PL, 1CP, 160pts]: Adept of the Codex, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Warlord

 

Primaris Techmarine [5 PL, -1CP, 85pts]: Chapter Command:  Master of the Forge, Seal of Oath, Stratagem: Relic

 

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 100pts]: Helix gauntlet
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 100pts]: Helix gauntlet
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 100pts]: Helix gauntlet
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

+ Elites +

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 140pts]: Twin ironhail autocannon

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 140pts]: Twin ironhail autocannon

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 195pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 195pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, 2x Twin volkite culverin

 

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [14 PL, 180pts]: Heavy melta rifle
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol
. Eradicator Sgt
. Eradicator with MM

 

++ Total: [113 PL, 4CP, 1,995pts] ++

Hello, 

I definitely think this could work - it only gives up a max of 10 on Bring It Down which isn't terrible at all, might just be enough to tempt people into taking it then cap their secondaries somewhat. 

Calgar helps the eradicator squad to be efficient, although he obviously doesn't help the general bubble as much. There's also a slightly annoying lack of an innate re-roll 1s to wound, which you can get around with Wisdom of the Ancients, but then that stops Wisdom being used elsewhere (vs the Guilliman variant) and I really like having access to more auras spread across the army. 

I haven't really experimented with invictors too much, but if you did give the list a run out I'd be really interested to hear how it goes

[Meletiah]

Hi @Brother Sergeant Scarus,

I am struggling w8th my Ultramarines st 1k points game. Do you have any advice for general strategies and units?

I will play an 1k casual tournament at the end of the month

[philoktitis]

 

On 2/3/2023 at 7:18 AM, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

Thank you, that's really good to hear. Mostly that's why I like to share these reports; if something I'm sharing is useful for other Ultramarines, that's great. We have a lot of strengths that sometimes get overlooked for more overtly powerful factions (such as Iron Hands).

Sorry, I only saw your detailed response right now! Thank you so much, that is more than I could hope for! I will go through it carefully and perhaps will bother with you with more questions. Seriously, thank you for being so generous with your time! As a new player, you look at the models, you read the rules, but it really does not click unless someone who knows spends the time to walk you through their thought process. 

 

Edit: I am going through the thread, and this is like a masterclass on how to run Ultramarines; amazing. I am so happy I stumbled upon your post! I have been trying to figure out which chapter to go for, and your analysis alone has me very excited about Ultramarines. Also congrats on your ITC finishes!

Edited February 9, 2023 by philoktitis
Update after reading other replies

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

On 2/8/2023 at 3:51 PM, Meletiah said:

Hi @Brother Sergeant Scarus,

I am struggling w8th my Ultramarines st 1k points game. Do you have any advice for general strategies and units?

I will play an 1k casual tournament at the end of the month

Hi @Meletiah - I don't have much experience with1k points, it's been a very long time since I played a non 2k game. The units I like generally are phobos units, dreadnoughts and victrix guard. I don't know how well that would translate into 1k games though. Do you have any thoughts on the list you'd run?

 

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

On 2/9/2023 at 3:51 AM, philoktitis said:

 

Sorry, I only saw your detailed response right now! Thank you so much, that is more than I could hope for! I will go through it carefully and perhaps will bother with you with more questions. Seriously, thank you for being so generous with your time! As a new player, you look at the models, you read the rules, but it really does not click unless someone who knows spends the time to walk you through their thought process. 

 

Edit: I am going through the thread, and this is like a masterclass on how to run Ultramarines; amazing. I am so happy I stumbled upon your post! I have been trying to figure out which chapter to go for, and your analysis alone has me very excited about Ultramarines. Also congrats on your ITC finishes!

No problem! I'm genuinely happy to help, and I like talking about Ultramarines. For the longest time they were dismissed as not very good, but I honestly just think people didn't always put the time in to try and figure things out, and picked more notably powerful chapters. Because I only focus on playing Ultramarines, I obviously focus heavily on them and different interactions with other factions/missions/map packs. 

Which is partly why I mention my ITC results, whilst I'm very pleased to have done well, it's more to say that I've faced some really good players and have been to a wide variety of tournaments and played all different calibres of players.  The gaming groups in my area also have some really great players, so I'm in a constantly evolving and high standard meta (though it's a really friendly one here in Leeds UK!).  We've had numerous players in no.1 spots for various factions, and at close of season some narrowly missing out. So I'm certainly in at the deep end and really have to work hard to keep the Ultramarines working. 

For new players, I notice a lot of Ultramarine players get told (on the internet, I hasten to add) "Just run them as Iron Hands" or something to that vibe, and it's a shame. So if anything I can share can help you with playing your games or your motivation for Ultramarines, great stuff!

So as always, feel free to ask away.

[Company Command]

Great battle reports, this has helped me gain my confidence back with Ultramarines! I've got the major part of the list except the two Contemptors, will look at picking those up for sure, since dreads are so key for the faction. 

[NKirkham24]

I'd second that, it's inspiring to hear of someone doing so well with the Ultramarines. 

 

I play every couple of weeks at a local gaming club, and have exclusively taken my Ultras, I've also done a couple of events, and have 2 more coming up in the near future. 

 

The next event I've got is an RTT, Playing the following missions:

 

Round 1: Tear down their Icons

Round 2: Tide of Conviction

Round 3: Death and Zeal

 

The list I took to my last game was as follows:

 

Guilliman

Tigurius - Psychic Fortress, Null Zone, MoH

Primaris Techmarine - MOTF - Seal of Oath & Adept of the Codex

 

5x Infiltrators - helix gauntlet

 

5x Bladeguard

Judiciar - Rites of War, Armour Indomitus

Redemptor - Plasma

Redemptor - HOGC

5x Vanguard Veterans - Storm Shields, Power Sword, TH on Sgt (one has a pistol rather than shield for points)

 

3x Eradicators

Kratos - Battlecannon, Volkite everywhere else

Vindicator Laser Destroyer. 

 

I've only played one game with this version and it was a 68-66 win vs Death Guard on Monday.

 

Any glaring changes you'd make to this from your experience? I was considering taking the Eradicators out for another unit of troops, possible assault intercessors and a 2man unit of Victrix guard?

[philoktitis]

16 hours ago, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

So as always, feel free to ask away.

 

OK, I am going to take you up on that (more than once I think)! 

 

Question #1: How does it look on the table?
I have very little experience, so apologies if this is a bit obvious, but how would your ideal positioning look like? How is the ideal castle and who is in it and who can be out? I have attached a screenshot of what I would imagine it would look like (although I doubt it is like that). I have also attached the pptx I used to make the image in case you have too much free time in your hands and fell like messing around with it :)

 

 

Question #2: How difficult is it to pilot this list?
Making that cartoon made me realize that this might not be a trivial list to run! Keeping track of the auras alone... Do you have have any tips on potentially simplifying things for a beginner?

 

Question #3: What do you make of this list?
Based on some of your post and replies (and what would be easier for me to put on the table), I have put together the list below (2K on the nose). Would it be a good place to start, or would you change something?

 

Roboute Guilliman

Tigurius: 2) Might of Heroes, 4) Psychic Scourge, 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura)

Primaris Techmarine: Chapter Command:  Master of the Forge, Rites of War, Seal of Oath,

 

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

 

+ Elite +

Redemptor Dreadnought: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Redemptor Dreadnought: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought: Cyclone missile launcher, Multi-melta, Twin lascannon

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought: Cyclone missile launcher, Multi-melta, Twin lascannon

Victrix Honour Guard

 

+ Fast Attack +

Invader ATV Squad (Multi-melta)

 

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad: Las Fusil
. . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine
. . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

Eliminator Squad: Las Fusil
. . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine
. . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

Gladiator Reaper: Auto Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Ironhail Heavy Stubber

 

Many thanks for all the information you have been sharing!

 

castle.pptx

Edited February 11, 2023 by philoktitis
Adding more questions :)

[Meletiah]

12 hours ago, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

Hi @Meletiah - I don't have much experience with1k points, it's been a very long time since I played a non 2k game. The units I like generally are phobos units, dreadnoughts and victrix guard. I don't know how well that would translate into 1k games though. Do you have any thoughts on the list you'd run?

 

Hi,

 

My list is a little like yours:

AoO Elite

HQ

 Primaris Captain with the relic shield and WL Rites of War

 Primaris Techmarine with Relic Seal of Oath

Troop

 Infiltrator Squad with Helix x2

Elite

 Victrix Honour Guard x2

 Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with Twin-Volkite culverin

 Redemptor Dreadnought with MPC, SB, IR & OGC

Heavy

 Eradicator with HMR

 

OS

 Oath

 CW

 ST

 

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

16 hours ago, NKirkham24 said:

I'd second that, it's inspiring to hear of someone doing so well with the Ultramarines. 

 

I play every couple of weeks at a local gaming club, and have exclusively taken my Ultras, I've also done a couple of events, and have 2 more coming up in the near future. 

 

The next event I've got is an RTT, Playing the following missions:

 

Round 1: Tear down their Icons

Round 2: Tide of Conviction

Round 3: Death and Zeal

 

The list I took to my last game was as follows:

 

Guilliman

Tigurius - Psychic Fortress, Null Zone, MoH

Primaris Techmarine - MOTF - Seal of Oath & Adept of the Codex

 

5x Infiltrators - helix gauntlet

 

5x Bladeguard

Judiciar - Rites of War, Armour Indomitus

Redemptor - Plasma

Redemptor - HOGC

5x Vanguard Veterans - Storm Shields, Power Sword, TH on Sgt (one has a pistol rather than shield for points)

 

3x Eradicators

Kratos - Battlecannon, Volkite everywhere else

Vindicator Laser Destroyer. 

 

I've only played one game with this version and it was a 68-66 win vs Death Guard on Monday.

 

Any glaring changes you'd make to this from your experience? I was considering taking the Eradicators out for another unit of troops, possible assault intercessors and a 2man unit of Victrix guard?

Hello! Those three missions are all pretty interesting in their own ways, and have a few little quirks to them that can influence what you do.

What sort of terrain maps do you play on? My main worry for the Kratos is, at 18 wounds, it can't be obscured and as it isn't core it can't benefit from Master of Prescience from Tigurius to help it survive (or might of heroes either).

With Tear Down Their Icons the mission specific action kind of relies on having cheap expendable units to perform the action, so if you own victrix guard I'd definitely recommend including them. Another slight problem with the kratos is that, as it isn't core, it doesn't benefit from the rerolls for Seal of Oath or rerolls to wound from Guilliman - both of which make volkite a lot more effective. And you can do quite a bit with those 320 points, such as victrix guard and some additional troops for secondary play. Do you have a plan for the secondaries you'd take?

One thing I would consider, is moving Rites of War to the Techmarine and then putting Warden of Macragge on the Judiciar. I honestly find that Adept of the Codex is just a bit too unreliable for what it does, whereas having Warden on the Judiciar allows him to heroically intervene 6" which massively increases his defensive power.

Having the additional units would also be handy for Tide of Conviction, with the numerous objectives. Especially if you have to take something like March for Macragge (which is actually pretty viable on Tide of Conviction, depending on what you face). 

I know the vindicator laser destroyer also isn't Core, but it's fewer shots so the loss of rerolls isn't as much of an issue, and you can make one of the shots auto hit for one cp, which is solid value on the damage 6 weapon,