Arks of Omen - 5 round event report

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

12 hours ago, philoktitis said:

 

OK, I am going to take you up on that (more than once I think)! 

 

Question #1: How does it look on the table?
I have very little experience, so apologies if this is a bit obvious, but how would your ideal positioning look like? How is the ideal castle and who is in it and who can be out? I have attached a screenshot of what I would imagine it would look like (although I doubt it is like that). I have also attached the pptx I used to make the image in case you have too much free time in your hands and fell like messing around with it :)

 

 

Question #2: How difficult is it to pilot this list?
Making that cartoon made me realize that this might not be a trivial list to run! Keeping track of the auras alone... Do you have have any tips on potentially simplifying things for a beginner?

 

Question #3: What do you make of this list?
Based on some of your post and replies (and what would be easier for me to put on the table), I have put together the list below (2K on the nose). Would it be a good place to start, or would you change something?

 

Roboute Guilliman

Tigurius: 2) Might of Heroes, 4) Psychic Scourge, 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura)

Primaris Techmarine: Chapter Command:  Master of the Forge, Rites of War, Seal of Oath,

 

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad: Helix gauntlet
. . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. . Infiltrator Sergeant

 

+ Elite +

Redemptor Dreadnought: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Redemptor Dreadnought: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought: Cyclone missile launcher, Multi-melta, Twin lascannon

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought: Cyclone missile launcher, Multi-melta, Twin lascannon

Victrix Honour Guard

 

+ Fast Attack +

Invader ATV Squad (Multi-melta)

 

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad: Las Fusil
. . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine
. . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

Eliminator Squad: Las Fusil
. . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine
. . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

Gladiator Reaper: Auto Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod, Ironhail Heavy Stubber

 

Many thanks for all the information you have been sharing!

 

castle.pptxUnavailable

I very much enjoyed the graphic! As a general concept that's exactly the sort of approach I'm talking about, the overlapping auras - not everything needs to be within 6" of Guilliman, but just being within 12 with some stuff can dramatically increase unit efficiency when you also have Wisdom of the Ancients to provide yet more re-roll 1s to wound.

One thing I would say, and this isn't me being pedantic, is making sure that anything within the 12" bubble is just in by the slightest fraction. The aura only has to be touching the tiniest part of a base, and that can extend the overall aura ranges dramatically. That may also be obvious, but it's just worth pointing out. And then Guilliman need to be pretty close (certainly within 3") of the dreads he's giving full rerolls too, so they character screen him.

But all of this is match up dependent, I'll send through a photo as an example - where I have some of my dreads nowhere near Guilliman's 12" aura because of the map/mission/opponent. 

As for piloting the list; at it's very simplistic state it's a castle and sort of walks forward and shoots. But that'll only get so far. The more you play with it the more you'll see different ways to make the most of it, and when and where to group up, and when to split. For the auras, I'd definitely recommend tokens for the following: +1 to hit (from the Techmarine), -1 to be hit (Master of Prescience) Might of Heroes and Psychic Fortess. There are cards you could use, but a black base with some white paint on works perfectly well (and is less clutter). 

For Guilliman's auras, I've just used him so often that they're kind of ingrained - because he has so many effects (+1adv/charge, re-roll morale, re-roll 1s, then full re-roll to hit for core/character, re-roll 1s to wound for core) just focus on keeping those in mind and then allow the tokens to ease the cognitive burden for other stuff. I hit a point where the tokens are there for my opponent's information not mine, repetition is a wonderful thing. But it's also nice to make it abundantly clear where things like -1 to be hit and +1T from might of heroes are. Both those abilities skew your opponent's maths so I like to make sure the opponent knows where my buffs are. 

For your list, looks very solid! I really like the reaper with Guilliman, especially if a techmarine gives it +1 to hit. You have a good mix of anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons. Are your contemptors magnetised? 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m disappointed the Kratos isn’t core… especially for the points cost.

[philoktitis]

10 hours ago, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

Are your contemptors magnetised? 

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it!

 

Also thanks for going into details regarding the auras. I was not sure who should be screening Guilliman; it makes sense to have the  Redemptors do that since they are tough and the techmarine can keep them going. Especially since you have suggested using the VHG for actions/objectives. Also great point about spreading out to barely have the units in the aura. It's a big challenge to visualize the castle for someone with as little experience as myself; particularly how far you can spread and who gets what (especially when terrain gets involved). I would definitely love some photos from your games! The token setup is genius, thanks for the tip; small things like that can make a big difference for someone who is new to all this.

 

My contemptors are in their boxes still, so please feel free to suggest any changes for them (and for any other units; some of them I have not even bought yet)! 

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:48 AM, Meletiah said:

Hi,

 

My list is a little like yours:

AoO Elite

HQ

 Primaris Captain with the relic shield and WL Rites of War

 Primaris Techmarine with Relic Seal of Oath

Troop

 Infiltrator Squad with Helix x2

Elite

 Victrix Honour Guard x2

 Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with Twin-Volkite culverin

 Redemptor Dreadnought with MPC, SB, IR & OGC

Heavy

 Eradicator with HMR

 

OS

 Oath

 CW

 ST

 

That looks like a solid and sensible list for the points, 2 units of infiltrators provide an enormous amount of utility to the army; forward deploy, rapid redeploy, protecting your dreads from deepstrike charges from factions like daemons. 

I also really like the 2 units of VHG for actions, and disposable units for throwing at Oath. Dreads work best at a critical mass, but I don't think it's realistic to take more than 2 at 1k points, at least from looking at it. 

The main thing is just to be conscious of your shooting lanes with the dreads, and try and protect them from enemy return fire by predicting where units might move to in order to shoot them. Don't be afraid to run VHG onto an objective and then shoot the enemy off with dreads, that's a viable way to score shock tactics; doesn't always have to involve melee or your obsec units. Just don't under-commit to the kill when you do that.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:19 PM, philoktitis said:

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it!

 

Also thanks for going into details regarding the auras. I was not sure who should be screening Guilliman; it makes sense to have the  Redemptors do that since they are tough and the techmarine can keep them going. Especially since you have suggested using the VHG for actions/objectives. Also great point about spreading out to barely have the units in the aura. It's a big challenge to visualize the castle for someone with as little experience as myself; particularly how far you can spread and who gets what (especially when terrain gets involved). I would definitely love some photos from your games! The token setup is genius, thanks for the tip; small things like that can make a big difference for someone who is new to all this.

 

My contemptors are in their boxes still, so please feel free to suggest any changes for them (and for any other units; some of them I have not even bought yet)! 

I've gone through a bunch of photos but I'm notoriously bad for/at taking photos in tournament games. Here are two slight examples of how I split things up:

In the photo with the custodes, you can just see the volkite of one of my contemptors, they're both down there with the techmarine - I'd used a rapid redeploy, turn one, to kill one of the two units of vertus praetors. Guilliman, Tigurius and the redemptors are up top defending my priority objective and drawing firing lines down the middle of the table.The front redemptor is also close enough to move up to the obscurring ruins directly ahead of him, so he can potentially move up and shoot through it by touching the terrain. However, as you can see, there are custodes to deal with at the top of the map first.

In the photo with the drukhari, I have Guilliman, a Techmarine, Tigurius, 2 Redemptors and a Volcon all very close to each other, and all getting close to the ruin for the same reason as the redemptor mentioned above. I then have a volcon at the top of the picture (on the left) to shoot any drukhari who come and attack my objective, and draw a line of sight into the middle objective. 

The main thing to think about are where your lines of sight will be, where you'll be able to move to in order to draw line of sight once the enemy moves. Dreadnoughts aren't particularly fast so you have to find the right mix of keeping them defended, but also putting them in positions where they can move to firing lines. There are games where I advance both redemptors just to get them into decent staging positions, there are games where I have a volcon out on it's own (the 5+ invuln makes them a little safer to operate away from Tigurius, and their long range is useful. I have games, like against the custodes, where both volcons move with the techmarine because they're excellent at punishing whatever my seal of oath target is.

It really does depend on the enemy list, threats, map and mission.

As for contemptors, I really like two twin volkite and cyclone missiles. Ultramarines and permanent dev doctrine make them very efficient. I also quite like Multi-melta, Cyclone, Chainfist and heavy flamer. That loadout is a real menace for vehicles, especially the chainfist, and the flamer helps clear screens. 

In your list I'd be tempted to have one with two twin lascannons and a cyclone, and then multi-melta/cyclone/fist (that comes to the same points total as you had in your list). I'd definitely recommend magnetising though, adds so much value! 

[philoktitis]

 

17 hours ago, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

It really does depend on the enemy list, threats, map and mission.

 

Thanks again for the feedback! These two examples are great, but I can definitely see that in the end I have to put them on the table and get the experience the hard way :) I will magnetize the contemptors for sure, thanks for the load-out tips!

 

I now have a philosophical question for you. You have stuck with Ultramarines for a long time, through what I can only assume have been big ups and downs in terms of their overall competitiveness in the meta. At the same time, you are clearly a competitive player, so playing well and winning must matter to you. Ideally I want to have an experience like the one you seem to be having with Ultramarines, so I want to know a bit more about that.

 

When Ultramarines are supposed to be pretty bad (say average win rate 35% on Nephilim Q3 according to stat-check), how does that affect someone like you, who has so much experience with them? Do these percentages mean much? Do you lose much more or only a little more? Does that affect your enjoyment of the game? Does it ever get to the point were you consider using another army, or running them as another faction?

 

I know that answers to these questions depend on individual personality, but I would like to hear your perspective. As a newer player who is stilling building his army, a lot of my experience of warhammer comes not from playing, but consuming online content. Most of that content is talk about the meta, who is up/down, who is on top/bottom. I feel that gives me a valid, but very skewed view of the game. I personally care about winning, but not enough to be switching armies every few months (especially since I kind of get attached to my models and the memories I am creating with them).

Edited February 14, 2023 by philoktitis

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

5 hours ago, philoktitis said:

 

 

Thanks again for the feedback! These two examples are great, but I can definitely see that in the end I have to put them on the table and get the experience the hard way :) I will magnetize the contemptors for sure, thanks for the load-out tips!

 

I now have a philosophical question for you. You have stuck with Ultramarines for a long time, through what I can only assume have been big ups and downs in terms of their overall competitiveness in the meta. At the same time, you are clearly a competitive player, so playing well and winning must matter to you. Ideally I want to have an experience like the one you seem to be having with Ultramarines, so I want to know a bit more about that.

 

When Ultramarines are supposed to be pretty bad (say average win rate 35% on Nephilim Q3 according to stat-check), how does that affect someone like you, who has so much experience with them? Do these percentages mean much? Do you lose much more or only a little more? Does that affect your enjoyment of the game? Does it ever get to the point were you consider using another army, or running them as another faction?

 

I know that answers to these questions depend on individual personality, but I would like to hear your perspective. As a newer player who is stilling building his army, a lot of my experience of warhammer comes not from playing, but consuming online content. Most of that content is talk about the meta, who is up/down, who is on top/bottom. I feel that gives me a valid, but very skewed view of the game. I personally care about winning, but not enough to be switching armies every few months (especially since I kind of get attached to my models and the memories I am creating with them).

 

It is the trickiest part, and practice is the only real way to find out what works and what doesn’t. Everyone plays things slightly different, and will look at situations from their own perspective (inevitably) so there’s no substitute for practice games! I don’t know what your local gaming group is like, but try and get as many games as you can across a broad spectrum of opponents. Not that you would, but don’t be afraid to shy away from tougher games and match-ups. It’s all very helpful for developing your familiarity with the army, similarly don’t change your list too quickly. I see far too many people completely abandon things because a couple of games don’t go their way.

For me personally, I play the Ultramarines because they’re my favourite faction – I’ve owned Ultramarines since 2^nd edition and, aside from some of the awful lore which was penned around 5^th edition, they’re a really well constructed army in the background material. Guilliman is such a reasonable guy, and that really appeals to me (Dan Abnett’s Know No Fear is probably my favourite book in all of the Black Library, and I think it presented Guilliman in the way he was finally meant to be written). I also spend a very long time painting my miniatures, and that takes a lot of time and effort. So even if I wanted to switch to other factions, that would hold me back.

I am definitely a competitive player, and that’s true whether it’s table top games or sports or what have you. But, for me, the goal of the game is to win. But the *aim* is to have fun. I’d much rather lose a really close and interesting game, than just absolutely walk all over someone. These things happen, but I don’t set out or aim to just crush someone. I’ve never really been interested in “netlisting” – if I can see the reasoning behind something I think is clever, I’m not too proud to adapt it or anything, but I like trying out different things. Which is kind of why my list is where it is now – the final 150 points, or so, are something I haven’t quite settled on, but the rest comes from a long process of trial and error. I know I could, for example, just switch to Iron Hands. But something about that doesn’t sit right with me. I’ve no problem if other people want to do that, but my marines are my Ultramarines and I’ll always play them that way. We also have some real hidden strengths, like I’ve attempted to discuss in this thread, that can be surprisingly powerful. I always ask people, at tournaments, if they’ve played against Ultramarines before. Everyone says yes. But then they’re always surprised by the things we can do. I’ve never been tempted to run my marines as other chapters, even when the numbers look grim for the Ultramarines, but there have been a couple of times where it has felt like playing them is certainly playing on “hard-mode”. In 9^th good examples of that were against Harlequins (especially before any nerfs) and Custodes as they were on release. An army that is built around re-rolls falls apart a little when the opponent can turn them all off! Or when you’re hit by an absolute barrage of mortal wounds (like un-nerfed Tyranids). But on the whole I’ve managed to keep up with the meta as best as I can. In 9^th I’d say I was mostly a 2 wins, 1 loss RTT player, and 3 wins 2 losses or 4 wins 1 loss GT player. When I moved across to more dreadnought heavy, that ratio definitely swung to 4-1 (and my previous four GTs prior to Arks of Omen were 4-1s) so that did help with motivation. There’s a lot to be said for practice and not getting too caught up on the meta perception of different factions.

But mostly it’s my love of the faction, the time I’ve put into collecting and painting them, and (as you’ve said) the memories models make that keep me hooked to the army. I have one incursor sergeant who is notorious in my gaming group for his heroics, and the amount of times he’s done something spectacular to score me precious primary points and so on. He’s often been the last man standing against a Nemesis Grandmaster/Be’lakor/Phoenix Lords and so on and so forth. Courage and Honour being a fantastic strat to make sure he doesn’t then fail his leadership test, and score me extra primary.

Or my victrix guard, who are possibly my most hated models amongst my regular opponents. And are one of the reasons I could never even run as successor tactics, the VHG are just excellent value.

Plus they look awesome!

[philoktitis]

18 hours ago, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

But, for me, the goal of the game is to win. But the *aim* is to have fun.

 

That's such a great way of putting it! Thanks for the honest account of your approach/rationale. I also want to win, but the other aspects of WH (the hobby part, having a cool army that looks cool, has a cool lore, and you identify with) are also very important for me. I have played games in the past with the approach of just maximizing efficiency on the competitive domain with no considerations to style/lore and I have always burned out. I feel that what's unique about WH (compared say to MtG that I have played and enjoyed) is all these other facets of the game, and I don't want to make the mistake of sacrificing them for the sake of competitiveness. So I am really thrilled to see you with a competitive mindset but also taking into account all these other aspects of the game.

 

It's very impressive that you were able to maintain such a high win rate at the peak of Harlequins and Custodes meta (I was not there for either, but I have heard stories!). It's very reassuring to know that this is possible as long as you have put the hours and have really learned your faction. It sounds like a much healthier approach than jumping on the bandwagon every few months.

 

Btw, I have only read 10 or so books from the Black Library (all from Horus Heresy) but Know No Fear is also my favorite! Although to be fair, this might have more to do with Dan Abnett's writing skill and his vision of Ultramarines than with GW's canon (Prospero Burns made me sympathize with the Space Wolves; before that book they seemed like a joke to me, a 12 year old's vision of Vikings in space). In any case, the other faction I am drawn to, Salamanders, also have that feeling of reasonable, honorable people in a mad universe, doing the best they can, that I like about the Ultramarines and Guilliman (although I have not read any Salamanders books, and unfortunately Dan Abnett does not seem to have written any).

 

I have a bit of a commitment issue, so I have been painting my minies in a custom scheme that is reminiscent of Ultramarines but clearly different to allow me to switch (see below for a Bladeguard Veteran sergeant). If you could go back, would you do something similar? Related to that, what other Space Marine factions do you think have the same tactical depth that Ultramarines offer? I know Ultras are your favorite, but because I really like your approach to the game, I think you are the right person to ask this question.

 

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

On 2/15/2023 at 5:04 AM, philoktitis said:

 

That's such a great way of putting it! Thanks for the honest account of your approach/rationale. I also want to win, but the other aspects of WH (the hobby part, having a cool army that looks cool, has a cool lore, and you identify with) are also very important for me. I have played games in the past with the approach of just maximizing efficiency on the competitive domain with no considerations to style/lore and I have always burned out. I feel that what's unique about WH (compared say to MtG that I have played and enjoyed) is all these other facets of the game, and I don't want to make the mistake of sacrificing them for the sake of competitiveness. So I am really thrilled to see you with a competitive mindset but also taking into account all these other aspects of the game.

 

It's very impressive that you were able to maintain such a high win rate at the peak of Harlequins and Custodes meta (I was not there for either, but I have heard stories!). It's very reassuring to know that this is possible as long as you have put the hours and have really learned your faction. It sounds like a much healthier approach than jumping on the bandwagon every few months.

 

Btw, I have only read 10 or so books from the Black Library (all from Horus Heresy) but Know No Fear is also my favorite! Although to be fair, this might have more to do with Dan Abnett's writing skill and his vision of Ultramarines than with GW's canon (Prospero Burns made me sympathize with the Space Wolves; before that book they seemed like a joke to me, a 12 year old's vision of Vikings in space). In any case, the other faction I am drawn to, Salamanders, also have that feeling of reasonable, honorable people in a mad universe, doing the best they can, that I like about the Ultramarines and Guilliman (although I have not read any Salamanders books, and unfortunately Dan Abnett does not seem to have written any).

 

I have a bit of a commitment issue, so I have been painting my minies in a custom scheme that is reminiscent of Ultramarines but clearly different to allow me to switch (see below for a Bladeguard Veteran sergeant). If you could go back, would you do something similar? Related to that, what other Space Marine factions do you think have the same tactical depth that Ultramarines offer? I know Ultras are your favorite, but because I really like your approach to the game, I think you are the right person to ask this question.

 

I absolutely understand the burn-out of playing purely for competitive aspects, I’ve quit other gaming systems before just because there wasn’t anything else to keep me really engaged with the hobby – whereas with 40k, because I’ve played for so long and I’m attached to lore and factions etc. that’s always kept my interest. If ever I need a little break there’s always just some painting to do, or converting or what have you. There’s even alternative ways to play that are fun – like Tempest of War. Every so often my team mates and I will play some tempest with pre-discussed forces, just to focus on a cool-looking game with less commonly used units. It’s fun, and a nice little diversion from tournament practice to keep things interested and varied.

Thanks, I think focusing just on the one army means it was possible to win even in those horrendous match-ups, but not if the opponent was similarly practiced with their army. It’s much better these days – I still don’t *want* to be drawn against Harlequiins, but everything else at least feels like a game. I’m yet to play against Leagues of Votann though, so can’t comment for certain on them.

Hah, that’s exactly what I like about the Salamanders/Ultramarines too. Compared to the majority of the setting they’re at least not actively trying to be horrendous to everyone and everything! There are a fair few Salamanders books, although I personally didn’t click with them (either the 40k ones or the Horus Heresy ones).

First of all, that bladeguard looks awesome! The scheme reminds me of something, Iron Ravens maybe? Either way it’s very clean and looks distinctive enough to be it’s own thing, but nobody would be surprised to see you running them as Ultramarines, it has that vibe about it. I think the bladeguard model which is wiping it’s sword on a traitor flag is possibly one of my favourite space marine models. I, obviously, painted the flag as Word Bearers and used a heresy era helmet to mark him out as a sergeant. I’ll find a photo of him (you can just see him here on the bottom left).

As for the “What would I do in hindsight?” question; I personally would not just because of my love for Ultramarines BUT it’s definitely something I encourage people to do if they don’t have a lore/aesthetic reason for painting their marines as one thing or another. If people want to paint an in-lore chapter but have it be flexible rules-wise I tell them to use the Minotaur chapter. Their gene-seed is chimeric and deliberately obscured from records, so people can use them as any chapter and it be lore friendly (if they care about that at all). The Minotaurs though, are very much the opposite end of the spectrum to Ultramarines (they’re even barred from entering Ultramar). Very interesting chapter but very much not nice people to be around.

[Prot]

Great looking stuff. I'm glad you have been able to hang on to the army.

 

I have painted up 3-4 full sized UM armies, and I am heavily chastised about this with the locals as I have always sold them, then restarted them until now. I have to agree, it's not always a very competitive choice, but a great chapter that often gets the raw end of the deal from players.  Plus a great colour scheme!

[philoktitis]

First of all, your army looks amazing! Are they all painted at that standard? Really, impressive! There is something about a fully painted founding chapter army (especially such an iconic one like Ultras) that no successor or custom home brew can capture. You look at an Ultramarines army, and you just know/feel so many things about them instantly. Like, I see the army and I think of Ventanus explaining to Selaton why they needed to bring the banner with them, and then Selaton explaining the same thing to the Skitarii :) Part of me wanted to capture that feeling and go for Ultramarines, but I was worried that I wouldn't do it justice (or find the tabletop experience not suited to me). Which just makes people who just go for it and do it right, even more impressive.

 

 

On 2/16/2023 at 2:04 AM, Brother Sergeant Scarus said:

The scheme reminds me of something, Iron Ravens maybe?

 

Spot on! I made a couple of very minor changes (main one being that I paint the powerpack mostly blue instead of just silver), but other than that it is Paul Norton's Irons Raven's scheme! I really liked it aesthetically, and since I am very much a beginner in the hobby aspect as well as the game, I like that it doesn't really need edge highlighting on the leadbelcher parts. It does need highlighting for all the other parts, and as you can see from the sergeant, this remains to be done. I think I will try to get 2,000 points at battle-ready standard first, and then start on the highlighting. I really don't like playing with unpainted models, but I can live without the highlights (for now). Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate them, but I still have so much to learn.

 

Btw, it never occurred to me that the Bladeguard sergeant is using a heretic flag! I thought it was just a piece of cloth and thought the model to be a bit silly actually; now it is actually awesome, and the Word Bearers' flag is the perfect choice for an Ultramarine sergeant! I really love it when you see top players be so dedicated to the hobby/lore aspect of the game. Like you said, I can see how one can stick with this for as many years as you have; there are so many ways to get enjoyment from this hobby.

 

Thank you so much for all the advice on Ultramarines specifically and on the game in general. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for your next battle report!