Strike Force Agastus

[Tacitus]

The new Dread is nice.  The talking heads are pushing Melta/Talon, but I'm thinking Dakka Fists.  Melta, Talon, Fist are most likely all going to overlap.  But two heavy Bolters, two Icarus Ironhail, and 4ish Bolt Rifles is going to come out to about 20 midlevel shots. 

 

I'm not sure what to make of the Desolation Squad tells me the FOTM of the next edition is probably missile launchers.   Looking at the description they're walking Whirlwinds.  They're called Castellan launchers.  And the example squad implies you can mix and match versions which appear to roughly pattern after the Hellblasters with Assault, Rapidfire, Heavy or Assault, Heavy 1, Heavy 2 of Eradicators.  The difference is it looks like these can mix and match.

 

But I can't get past how many totally empty holes Primaris still have to get filled more than they need a few slots to have more options.  Especially anohter Mark X Tacticus armored Lieutenant. 

[Captain Idaho]

The big aggressive Dreadnought can be interesting alongside Redemptors since opponents will have to choose between them.

 

I generally approve of a Dreadnought. 

 

The negative though is the Brutalis completely makes the Redemptor with Onslaught Cannons obsolete. Plasma or go home really, which was pretty much already the case anyway.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

The big aggressive Dreadnought can be interesting alongside Redemptors since opponents will have to choose between them.

 

I generally approve of a Dreadnought. 

 

The negative though is the Brutalis completely makes the Redemptor with Onslaught Cannons obsolete. Plasma or go home really, which was pretty much already the case anyway.

 

So happy I no longer play :).

[Tacitus]

The last I checked the Onslaught and the Plasma was roughly the same mathmatically speaking.  I like the Dread, I even like the Primaris Missile Devs.  But I think we had bigger holes to fill first.  One could argue the MultiMelta version also invalidates the Plasma Redemptor.  4 MM shots vs Average 3.5 Plasma shots? 

[Captain Idaho]

You know I totally missed the Brutalis can have twin Multi-melta... well that just makes Redemptors obsolete then. More attacks, better shooting... why take a Redemptor. 

 

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Totally agreed… the heavy plasma cannon has always been a big disappointment, so often you roll 3 or less for the number of shots as well. Four multi-melta shots is prime time.

[Captain Idaho]

Giant Dreadnought with smashy Fists and big guns?

 

Yeah sign me up.

[CCE1981]

Only way I see that Plasma being useful is if it changes to 3+d3 shots or the Brutalis with the Multi-Meltas is ridiculous on points.

[Tacitus]

I'd probably keep the Plasma Redemptor in Dark Angels lists.  And we haven't seen the rules for the Brutalis yet.  Based on the "leaks" in the commercial GW put out, I would have made it differently.

 

I would have given the Talons a version of the Chaff - each attack is two attacks at normal S - rule we're used to in other places.  The Dakka Redemptor (Onslaught, Heavy Onslaught, Two Storm Bolters) nets you 28ish shots.  The same theme in the Brutalis gets you 22.   I'd also posit this Dread isn't really for the basic Chapters.  Its for the BA and SW.  It's the ground work for Furioso, and Bjorn crossing the Rubicon first, and the Ironclad Dread Primaris-ified second. 

[ArielRSA]

I just hope the brutalis chest guns aren’t locked to the fist weapon load outs 

[Tacitus]

That I don't think will happen.  I'm kind of curious if the Desolators can mix and match like they're displayed.

[Guest]

To clarify :) I am happy I don't have to decide what's the "in" thing for gaming. I simply paint.

 

I am still thinking that added pods kept off will for me solve a few issues.

 

I am also going to speak to a few 3d modellers I know and see if we can get some backpacks and optic helmets.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

I'm very excited for the Brutalis, I'm a huge fan of dreadnoughts as it is, so I could very easily find myself running 2 Redemptors and 2 Brutalis.

I'm actually a big fan of the macro plasma, I understand other people's frustrations, but I find them really handy.

I'm also inclined to agree with you @Tacitus I'll probably go Fists+bolters and Multi-meltas. It makes it excellent at clearing chaff, can hunt tanks at range and close up, and if our re-roll capabilities remain the same, we can leverage a lot from weight of dice and flexibility of roles.

[Karhedron]

I think either build of Brutalis will be decent at chaff clearing. If you take the Fists, you get 6 bolter shots which can also be fired in melee.

 

If you go claws you get to make twice as many attacks in melee (with a weaker profile) but still reroll wounds. 12-ish S7 Ap-3 attacks with rerolling failed wounds is also pretty effective chaff clearance. 

[Captain Idaho]

I like the idea of Fists just because as an Ultramarines it kind of fits. Plus the bolters on them benefit from Tactical Doctrine which sits well with me.

 

He's essentially got a Hurricane Bolter with the Fists, only AP-1.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

17 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I think either build of Brutalis will be decent at chaff clearing. If you take the Fists, you get 6 bolter shots which can also be fired in melee.

 

If you go claws you get to make twice as many attacks in melee (with a weaker profile) but still reroll wounds. 12-ish S7 Ap-3 attacks with rerolling failed wounds is also pretty effective chaff clearance. 

Oh definitely, I just find clearing chaff at range is usually quite handy for a dreadnought heavy list, but both variants will definitely do it well.

I do like more flexibility from my dreads, being able to contribute well at range and melee, rather than being overly good at one.  But I suspect all loadouts will be really solid!

 

[Prot]

Well I just pre ordered the box.

 

Personally I'm all about the claws and Melta belt!

 

This suits my playstyle a lot. I'm fine with leaving the Redemptors in the list but the Brutalis might be a beast at clearing screens. I don't really rate the fist weapons highly, and with a sweep attack I don't think I'm going to be using it. 

[Tacitus]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:08 PM, Captain Idaho said:

I like the idea of Fists just because as an Ultramarines it kind of fits. Plus the bolters on them benefit from Tactical Doctrine which sits well with me.

 

He's essentially got a Hurricane Bolter with the Fists, only AP-1.

That and as UM you're more likely to fall back and shoot than you are to advance and charge.  I'm thinking chapter tactics/super doctrines does a lot more for that decision than anything else. 

[NKirkham24]

I've pre-ordered the box, there's some work to do on the Desolator marines to be sure, but very excited for a new Dreadnought. 

 

Rumour was 200 points for the Brutalis, which i'm already trying to factor in to my list.

[beefeb]

I would imagine that in 10th in the summer, we will see amendment of the redemptor on the back of the brutalis which is a beast at cc or shooting.  GW will need to do something to keep selling the kit after the initial rush of people grabbing the brutalis.  I  imagine we will see a points drop and maybe a boost of the plasma loadout.

 

In the meantime, the brutalis is a lovely big beastie....having seen on the gw site the summary of its clashes with other big equivalents in other armies....its definitely going to be a must have for competitive players out there.....the claws just rip thru stuff.  Ill get 2, and model one as primary shorter range (meltas and claws) and one as firebase (bolters and fists).  

[Karhedron]

55 minutes ago, beefeb said:

I would imagine that in 10th in the summer, we will see amendment of the redemptor on the back of the brutalis which is a beast at cc or shooting.  GW will need to do something to keep selling the kit after the initial rush of people grabbing the brutalis.  I  imagine we will see a points drop and maybe a boost of the plasma loadout.

 

I doubt it. Redemptors have had an edition of being excellent, everyone who wants one has probably got one by now. And just in case anyone hasn't yet, they are selling them cheaply in the Imperium partwork magazine. Why bother buffing a unit they have sold all they need when they can release the new hotness and start selling loads of Brutalis?

[Tacitus]

It'll be a little bit of both.  The INITIAL sales of Redemptors are done, but there's going to be some fill-ins and new players - and there will be ebb and flow as various unit types/weapon types become the Flavor of the Month for the next edition.  We also don't know what kind of fallout to expect from the points drops on so many INFANTRY squads cutting into or providing more Dreads.