Kasrkin or scions?

[Marshall Bretton]

So I've just picked up the new codex and am trying to work out what units to use for my army.

 

I have previously had a Scion army and used some additional detachments to get access to heavier weapons etc.

 

Having read through the rules I am struggling to decide whether this is still the way to go, or whether I would be better using my scions as kasrkin now as part of a combined arms detachment. I don't really want to have to pay a troops tax but clearly there are ways to deal with that so that's not an issue.

 

Clearly we now also only have 1 officer who can issue 2 orders without relics etc and he can't be used in a pure Scion detachment.

 

On paper I can see very little difference between the 2 units. Kasrkin have a few more wargear options and access to the regimental doctrines. Scions get the air drop and stormtroopers doctrine.

 

Would appreciate people's advice on this.

[Harrowmaster]

Kasrkin have better stragme synergy as they have Regimental and Cadian. They're also cheaper (100 points for ten, scions are 110 points). The hot shot marksman rifle is in addition to special weapons; sou you get 5 per squad. 

 

Edit: Scions also don't get Born Soldiers or doctrines (they do get stormtroopers but it's not as strong). 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Harrowmaster

[sairence]

Both fill slightly different roles.

 

Kasrkin are your elite Specialists. You pick the extra doctrine for the task you want them to do, you invest extra support in form of specific officers and relics so they can do that job as well as possible. They are also the better delivery vehicle for the overcharged las cells Mortal Wounds bomb, for frankly ludicrous damage output. But that is almost certain to get nerfed soon, very likely in the upcoming FAQ. Also, they are currently cheaper, but in my view there's really no justification for that.

 

Scions are more general elite units. You don't really need to invest anything other than the unit themselves and they'll do work. No doctrines, but Stormtroopers is really good. They can also deepstrike, which a lot of people are dismissing right now because you can't really order them, but it's still a great option to have. And they have some pretty nice options of their own. Their unique WL-traits are great, they get Commissar orders from their Command Squads for a cheap upgrade and you can bring them as troops. 15 10-man squads and 3 Tempestus Command squads is a legal Arks-list that fits into 2k points, and has a hell of a lot of punch and versatility.

 

So...while on the surface they look pretty similar, they have different roles and you need to figure out what fits your army better.

 

[Marshall Bretton]

That's a really helpful breakdown thank you. I haven't really played for some time so I find it hard to understand how alot of the rules interact.

 

It sounds like for what I want (an army of elite humans with carapace armour) scions is the way to go with an extra detachment to get some heavier weapons. I will just use the kasrkin models because I absolutely love them and they are the reason I started down this army design in the first place!

[sairence]

One thing to keep in mind there is that Scions are only troops in a "pure" detachment, so only Scions + Auxilia can be in it.

 

So your heavy weapons need to be in a different detachment, which is no problem for normal matched play, but a bit more tricky for the Arks of Omen tournament pack.

[Sawtooth]

For what it's worth, if you're planning to use Valkyries Scions can jump out closer to the enemy. Not something I've ever tried myself, but there you go.

[Shamansky]

As sairence mentioned this two units have different roles. Kasrkin is your 'surgical' instrument for a specific target/mission, and they can be equipped in many different ways to deal with the mission you take 'em for. And they WILL do this mission if you prepared and used 'em right. And Scions are your "KILL!"-troopers, you take 'em for damage which you can apply exactly where you need it. That's your hammer with a laser guidance system.