Rogal dorn is it worth it?

[Chevaliernoir]

Hi all! New Astra Militarum player here. I’m about to get a few models to bolster my armoured ranks and was wondering if the new rogal dorn is really worth the extra points cost over a russ? I have a Chimera, one Russ and a sentinel as it stands so any other recommendations are always welcome 

[TCC]

It is if you put some tank ace on it (I use knight of pity 5++). Chances are it will last longer than a Russ and gives out more fire power + T9 makes a big difference! Meltas wounding on 5 often bounce. 

[Emperor Ming]

No is the short answer, its just too many points

 

The heavy stubbers should be free really

 

There's a few weird overcosted things in the guard dex

[Santaclauswitz]

Dorn vs russ.... to be honest there probably isn't much in it point to point. I reckon the russ might just pip the dorn but it's so close as to be functionally meaningless. 

 

I've been toying with one list with two variants. The first has a dorn the second has a russ and hydra in it's place. I'll play both and see how it goes. 

[Tokugawa]

For a new player, a 55 pounds model which is ~300pts is a good and safe investment for you to got a 2000pts army earlier.

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Are you planning to go into the tournament scene?

if yes, I think the mathhammer says no.

 

if no, then it’s worth it if you like it. The rules for the tank will change fairly regularly 

[Tokugawa]

10 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Are you planning to go into the tournament scene?

if yes, I think the mathhammer says no.

 

if no, then it’s worth it if you like it. The rules for the tank will change fairly regularly 

One reason of we haven't seen any tournament tops list taking a Dorn, is: no player received the model until last week. And it is not a model which could be converted.  

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

19 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

One reason of we haven't seen any tournament tops list taking a Dorn, is: no player received the model until last week. And it is not a model which could be converted.  

I mean they’ve been getting 3D printed almost since the reveal, but i didn’t say anything about them being used in lists topping tournaments, I said the mathhammer suggests no.

 One or two lists using them and winning events doesn’t change that, it just means some people got some better than average rolls

[Sawtooth]

I have wondered this as I expand my army. One thing I notice is that the Leman Russ is really really good, which detracts from the value of the Dorn. There's also maneuvering around terrain to consider, and Dorn's can't take dozer blades and are extra large so positioning could be tough.

[Shamansky]

Dorn is a new model. It will be made to outshine old models in future editions. So, if you're new player, I'd suggest not to bother with previous editions models at all. Just pick new releases.

[dees]

Chevalienoir As a collector definitely get one.  In games terms It is not tough enough to out last 2 LRBT IMO so you need to upgrade it (like the 5++) to get best use and most points back.   I think it can be in a competitive list as long as you can apply heavy pressure on your opponent from other sources, like Kasrkin, other tanks and Sentinels. 

 

Shamansky as far a future editions that seems likely, but recently many armies have had older units like Wolf Guard Terminators  get glow-ups, and the the LRBL box was upgraded to include all turret options so I think its not going anywhere.  At least I really hope that's the case.      

[Shamansky]

9 hours ago, dees said:

Shamansky as far a future editions that seems likely, but recently many armies have had older units like Wolf Guard Terminators  get glow-ups, and the the LRBL box was upgraded to include all turret options so I think its not going anywhere.  At least I really hope that's the case.      

I have my doubts looking at my Elysian Drop Troops full force battallion with both kinds of Tauroses and 100+ of classic Black Templar marines with classic Grimaldus, EChamp, Bike Chaplain and Helbrecht. And plese save those 'you can still play them'. 

 

Dorn has almost twice as many guns as Russ, and all the buffs you can spare on a BATTLE TANK will have almost twice greater effect. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Shamansky

[OttoVonAwesome]

 Yeah it's got more guns but alot of em are shorter ranged and you'll have to move the thing up to really get the most of it wich can put in harms way. Most Russ variants can happily sit back and just plunk away and make more use of cover. It's a cool tank but i'd never take more than one.

[jarms48]

5 hours ago, Shamansky said:

I have my doubts looking at my Elysian Drop Troops full force battallion with both kinds of Tauroses and 100+ of classic Black Templar marines with classic Grimaldus, EChamp, Bike Chaplain and Helbrecht. And plese save those 'you can still play them'. 

 

Dorn has almost twice as many guns as Russ, and all the buffs you can spare on a BATTLE TANK will have almost twice greater effect. 

 

Dorn is dead-on-arrival at the moment. Russes are just far more efficient. The Vanquisher and Executioner need to go up 10 points and the Dorn needs to go down at least 10 points just to be viable. That's also only the oppressor cannon variant. The twin battle cannon variant is just terrible, far too swingy and it'd still be better to just take 2 Russes.

[Emperor Ming]

More than a 10pts drop is needed really 

 

I don't like any of its weapons, If you roll low by the time you hit wound and saves, you may not even do any damage

 

T9 vs some of the 9th stuff, wont even matter vs the s10-15 bracket

 

Considering Gcults got free heavy stubbers, its something guard need really. 

 

A lot of upgrades that might have been worth 5pts in past editions, are worthless now

[Warhead01]

The contrarian in me almost wants to field these tanks. I'd look for a 3rd party model probably. 
It almost reminds me of the Gladiator tank which on it's onw has not been very good to me on the table. Probably need to field 2 to 3 Dorn tanks to be happy with them. 
At first glance I just want a lot of meltas on them. No plans to buy any, still not sure about how much energy I will put into my Guard now with the new codex.  

I'm sure the mathhammer crowd is probably right as far as competitive choices. 
 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

17 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

 Yeah it's got more guns but alot of em are shorter ranged and you'll have to move the thing up to really get the most of it wich can put in harms way. Most Russ variants can happily sit back and just plunk away and make more use of cover. It's a cool tank but i'd never take more than one.

‘Shorter range’

30” is plenty of range in the current rules and typical table sizes. Long range is pretty pointless unless it’s an indirect fire weapon 

[mertbl]

I think if you bring a Dorn, you bring 3. Total T9 overload. 

[jarms48]

On 2/7/2023 at 10:52 PM, Emperor Ming said:

More than a 10pts drop is needed really 

 

I don't like any of its weapons, If you roll low by the time you hit wound and saves, you may not even do any damage

 

T9 vs some of the 9th stuff, wont even matter vs the s10-15 bracket

 

Considering Gcults got free heavy stubbers, its something guard need really. 

 

A lot of upgrades that might have been worth 5pts in past editions, are worthless now

 

They're not that bad, they just lose out to Executioners and Vanquishers (which all other Russes lose out to as well). 10 point hike on both of those variants makes the others more viable. 10 point hike also reduces the point difference between them and the Dorn. Then dropping the Dorn by 10 as well will be an effective 20 point difference from now.

 

Still doesn't help the twin battle cannon, I don't know what GW were thinking when they left it as 2D6 (should have been cheaper or 6+2D3). The oppressor is pretty decent, basically a better long range demolisher cannon. The heavy stubbers definitely should have been free and leave the 5 points for the meltas, just like how knights are handled.  

[Malakithe]

If you like it then get it as least for the hobby side of painting. For me i opted to take a baneblade finally since the AoO detachment makes it so easy now. 

[TCC]

3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

If you like it then get it as least for the hobby side of painting. For me i opted to take a baneblade finally since the AoO detachment makes it so easy now. 

I take both (Baneblade variant - the Baneblade IMO is not the best).

[Malakithe]

55 minutes ago, TCC said:

I take both (Baneblade variant - the Baneblade IMO is not the best).

I like it as an all rounder

[Warhead01]

I think what I like about it is that it reminds me of the Bauhaus Grizzly from warzone back in very late 90's. It's really close in design to that picture and old armor cast or crystal cast vehicle. Maybe smaller but still very close. 
 

[Tokugawa]

https://listbot40k.herokuapp.com/event_list/BY4L6X0X0P

 

this player won a 50 players GT last week. 

[sairence]

4 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

https://listbot40k.herokuapp.com/event_list/BY4L6X0X0P

 

this player won a 50 players GT last week. 

 

That's a nice list for sure. I'm not super convinced that 2 Dorns is better than the 4 Russes you'd get for the same price...but then I haven't played with them yet and I haven't won any GTs.