Why do you love 30k?

[Sawtooth]

I've only just started looking at the game seriously, but noticed that every 30k player I meet is seriously passionate about the game. I'm curious what makes you love the game so much? I was very surprised to realize how widespread and dedicated the fanbase is.

[BrotherAtrox]

I got into the hobby during 3rd Ed., and for me at the time the Heresy felt so wildly mythological in how it was portrayed in the fluff. You'd see the odd diorama or some gnarly artwork, but mostly it was something you just read about in a sidebar or textbox, etc. That made it distant, kinda strange, and gave it a lot of gravitas. I think that mysterious and legendary vibe it had during my formative years in the hobby is what lets the Heresy era retain some of the magic - even though now it's so much more fleshed out.

Edited February 5, 2023 by BrotherAtrox

[bushman101]

Heresy has a lot to like.

The setting is great. The Primarchs are active and technology is at a high point.

The game play is old school and not overly streamlined. Most armies share the same base pool of models.

The models are more interesting with 'more' distinct armor marks and retro feel.

Heresy gets back to customizable models. 40k mono-builds kinda railroads your options. 

[Gorgoff]

9 hours ago, BrotherAtrox said:

I got into the hobby during 3rd Ed., and for me at the time the Heresy felt so wildly mythological in how it was portrayed in the fluff. You'd see the odd diorama or some gnarly artwork, but mostly it was something you just read about in a sidebar or textbox, etc. That made it distant, kinda strange, and gave it a lot of gravitas. I think that mysterious and legendary vibe it had during my formative years in the hobby is what lets the Heresy era retain some of the magic - even though now it's so much more fleshed out.

Couldn't agree more. Only difference is that I started in 2ed.

9 hours ago, bushman101 said:

Heresy has a lot to like.

The setting is great. The Primarchs are active and technology is at a high point.

The game play is old school and not overly streamlined. Most armies share the same base pool of models.

The models are more interesting with 'more' distinct armor marks and retro feel.

Heresy gets back to customizable models. 40k mono-builds kinda railroads your options. 

Again 100% agree here.

 

I always liked the idea of playing SM and building the army with a company in mind giving each unit the proper unit number and all that. 

The Nigel Stillmanian approach if you like.

;)

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Gorgoff

[Slave to Darkness]

3 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Couldn't agree. Only difference is that I started in 2ed.

Again 100% agree here.

 

I always liked the idea of playing SM and building the army with a company in mind giving each unit the proper unit number and all that. 

The Nigel Stillmanian approach if you like.

;)

 

GW would never print that now, build your army and never touch it after is the opposite of 'buy moar stuffs!!'

[Brother_Angelus]

It's all the things I loved about 40k when I started back in 3rd edition. The randomness of templates, the lack of rerolls, the jank of some rules, and the encouragement of hobby/conversions.

[Mr_Zakalwe]

I love the style, the aesthetic, I love the symmetry between armies and finally because it's still a wargame with success largely dependent on the movement and activation of units on a board rather than (current 40k and AoS) ability stack resolution. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

At the LVO, everyone I talked to said the same thing. It "feels how warhammer should be played." And I agree with that. A peon grunt guardsmen/commissar even basic space marine shouldn't be able to hit an Avatar of Khaine, a litteral embodiment of a god of War on a 3+ or 4+ just because. A basic HQ shouldn't be able to hit a primarch, demon or otherwise on a 2+ or 3+

 

The game mechanics. My opinion is the system just better than 40k or AoS.

 

From a lore perspective you get to play your space marines at the height of their power. Loyalist get to be played how they are meant to be played, before the legions were crippled by Guilliman's book. Every army is on equal footing with options to create a unique feel with the flavor of specialty units, insignias and lore.

 

Personally I feel that 2.0 is what 8.0/9.0 should be.

[Gorgoff]

MORE.

I meant I couldn't agree more. I forgot that word in my last post. 

[NemoVonUtopia]

One of my favorite things is that my local groups and I think in general, 30k is much more narratively focused rather than competitive. And although 40k has more freedom, I like the stronger narrative framework of 30k.

[Cactus]

Alan Bligh's big black books.

[Papy carni]

Lore wise, it's the epicness and over-the-top (the good one, not the "I put gun on my gun next to my gun" one) of the battle of this era that I like, super human fighting each others, Demi gods leaders fighting for entire systems, Titans roaming around in pack, entire Tanks divisions etc. It's a war to the bone, on every spectrum, from skirmish to the planetary system. Nothing is held on, spared or forbidden. every boots are on the grounds, every engine who can runs are, evey stompers stomp  and those who can't are actively worked on to do so. It's the fight or die of the human race, no middle ground. 40k just isn't at this level.

Rule & game wise:
The fact that it's a continuation/refinement (debatable with 2.0 additions) of the 40k's old rules system, that I like more than the newer (8th +) one.
The fact that by the narrowed scope of forces present it's more likely to give a "balanced" experience, less subject to powercreep and "shiny new miniature is OP,buyitbuyit" syndroms.
Still, Legions are differentiated enough so there is proper identities and gameplay styles to each one of them.
Bigger format games are a real thing without any alternative rules.
Books and Illustrations are really good, especially the black books of first Ed.
I like the slower pace of production, edition. You've time to thing about your army composition, painting your miniatures etc. No need to destroy your nostrils to be able to keep up with the new codex, the new chapter approved, the new unit etc... It's more chill.

And community wise: 
I know this will sound gatekeeping to some, but I liked the reaction of the online community when a part of the more hardcore competitives/dickometer influencers tried to work the new edition hype to come in. It's an approach of the hobby that I don't particularly enjoy and, I think, is responsible, with other things, for the current state/mess that 40k is in now. 
And the community is accustomed to deal with homerules tweaks, modifying profiles etc, more self sufficient and relaxed on their approach of the hobby, at least in my circle of players.
I have concern with the game (hello 2.0, specially tanks and artillery) but knowing that something I can propose changes and balance tries without problem, is nice.

 

[Hfran Morkai]

I love the tragedy of it all.

 

The fall of brothers, the betrayals, the grandiose scale.

 

I appreciate the less "Wolf everything" for the Sixth.

[Slave to Darkness]

5 minutes ago, Hfran Morkai said:

I love the tragedy of it all.

 

The fall of brothers, the betrayals, the grandiose scale.

 

I appreciate the less "Wolf everything" for the Sixth.

Yeah I like my Viking Wolves, Im not vibing with the furry chapter they are in 40k. 

[sarabando]

for me its a better setting, but as im not a gamer per say the most important things are. 

1. better style minis, i simply dont like the style of modern GW 40k kits they are chunky and toy like imo. 

2. more options for characters. Primaris LT with THAT loadout? no way (until we release it as an event only mini) vs heres 10 hq choices go make something mad. 

3. better community. The level of talent in the 30k sphere is astronomical and the only community thats more engaged and passionate imo is the bloodbowl fans and we try to not make eye contact with them. 

[Xenith]

The game play is really what keeps me playing it. Not only does it bring me back to me starting the hobby in 3rd ed, like so many of you longish fangs, the main thing is that I laugh a hell of a lot more playing 30k than 40k. This is because:

 

• Stratagems and CP's take up too much headspace, this is 40k, not a resource management Yu-Gi-Oh, alike. 
• Less access to rerolls: Zero universal rerolls and restricted other applications, e.g. virtually none for saves means rolling that one at a critical moment actually means something, you can't just CP reroll the bad luck away. I laugh/moan when a character rolls 1's to save, or misses all their attacks. This is good random. 
• WS actually meaning something (this was true of the previous edition, but I'm a fan of the HH2 tweaked table)
• 2+ saves mean something. I am a fan of the modifier system that 40k (and 2nd ed) uses, however the application of it is flawed. In heresy, it actually feels like an ordeal to try and crunch your way through a bit unit of 2+/4++ models. 
• Interesting, varied legions that feel more fleshed out in some ways than their 40k counterparts, particularly the Chaos/Traitorous ones. 
• Volkite weapons. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

The game play is really what keeps me playing it. Not only does it bring me back to me starting the hobby in 3rd ed, like so many of you longish fangs, the main thing is that I laugh a hell of a lot more playing 30k than 40k. This is because:

 

• Stratagems and CP's take up too much headspace, this is 40k, not a resource management Yu-Gi-Oh, alike. 
• Less access to rerolls: Zero universal rerolls and restricted other applications, e.g. virtually none for saves means rolling that one at a critical moment actually means something, you can't just CP reroll the bad luck away. I laugh/moan when a character rolls 1's to save, or misses all their attacks. This is good random. 
• WS actually meaning something (this was true of the previous edition, but I'm a fan of the HH2 tweaked table)
• 2+ saves mean something. I am a fan of the modifier system that 40k (and 2nd ed) uses, however the application of it is flawed. In heresy, it actually feels like an ordeal to try and crunch your way through a bit unit of 2+/4++ models. 
• Interesting, varied legions that feel more fleshed out in some ways than their 40k counterparts, particularly the Chaos/Traitorous ones. 
• Volkite weapons. 

Here here!

[4b4dd0n]

I saw this in the mid or late 90s in a white dwarf and it stuck to my head.

Spoiler

 

Until I could get the first 3 black books from Alan Bligh in the early 2010s. For me the books are like the Holy Bible from GW/FW^^

It was the peak time of HH. Every year a event with new releases and new models. Whole armys of blogger reported from the events and get you hyped. Until he sadly dies. 

You got so much fluff with every new book. It brought me back to buying and painting models from GW/FW after years.

Horus Heresy is a fantastic setting. The idea of religios free Imperium dragged down by crazy Chaos whorshippers is really good and you can see the legions in their prime.

You can jump at any point in the HH and build you legion at this specific time. It could be pre primarch or late HH. You make the choice. And at its peak you had every armor type you want from FW.

You could go all out for MKII/III or for traitors MKIV at the early stages of the HH or MKV and VI at the late stages. You could tell your story of your army just by selecting the different armor marks. And I think this is the best part about it.

You can take the same legion from different guys and every army will have a different story. And you will hardly see the same army twice.

And now think about 18 legions, loyalist and traitor. Blackshields and shattered legions. Normal human and mechnicum forces and demon/custodes stuff. The story which you can tell with your army are endless. I love the HH so much because of this. 

[arnesh88]

I like it because:

- Peels back the curtain in the lore of the "Mythology" known in 40k vs "Here's what really happened" of 30k

- The tone of how mankind was about to reach their peak, only for a civil war to bring it crashing down. More of a tragedy than a hopelessness

- Space Marines were a lot more complex in 30k as far as agendas, motivations, and emotions go vs a more 1-dimensional feel in 40k

- Feels like there's a lot more character between the different legions as far as aesthetics go

- Despite it being mostly space marine vs space marine, having a large variety of units commonly shared and available to everyone with special rules pushing each legion to favor certain units makes the battles feel both familiar and very different each time (because of this design, it looks like roughly 80% of the space marine units are usable, depending on you chosen legion)

- A lot more customization in each unit

- Being able to use Primarchs

- A community more focused on narrative vs competitive. I'm too busy to keep up with the competitive metas of other games, and even in 40k or AoS "casual" games, they tend to be more about "testing competitive ideas"

Edited February 6, 2023 by arnesh88

[Hfran Morkai]

4 hours ago, Slave to Darkness said:

Yeah I like my Viking Wolves, Im not vibing with the furry chapter they are in 40k. 

 

True that. I got into them in 4th and yes, the Wolf theme was there but at least it didn't go too far for me. I wanted tribal, Norse inspired with wolf and raven symbols.

 

I also think I prefer most of the rule set, I like the idea of vehicle facings for example.

 

Rites of War allowing for great variety in lists, you can pretty much build a specialised force.

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I started really getting into Warhammer a couple of years after the heresy novels first came out. This was the collecting an army and actually playing the game phase (instead of a couple of models here and there and painting them), and of course, it was space marines as the first army. Space marines were just so cool as techno-super-human-knights that were also "good guys", with crazy heroic feats described in the codex, with even more legendary events hinted at. And then the novels brought you to those legendary times; it felt like a secret you were being let in on, with some huge twists coming in the first handful of novels (Legion was the most recent book when I got into the novels, and the double whammy of the ALs being "loyal" and having two primarchs was insane) that just added to that. The hits felt like they kept coming, with a thousand sons, first heretic, know no fear, Prospero burns, angel exterminatus, and betrayer all coming out in a 2 year span; the two anthologies in that period had some genuinely great stories too, so the "bad" books were easily ignored. And just as shadows of treachery came out, so did Horus Heresy: Betrayal. Now you could play games in that universe instead of thinking about how cool it seemed compared to 40k's setting; you were part of that secret history. 

 

And the game. They had basically made a mega-codex, taking all sorts of inspiration from the loyalist and chaos marine books from across the previous editions, but also adding other factions twists to it. Artificer armour made a return from 4th edition codex marines. The units could be up to 20, like chaos Marines. The tanks could come in squadrons, like imperial guard. Units were focussed on their roles, like eldar (and tacticals even got blade storm). Even without the Legion rules, you could really customize your forces with rites, which felt like the custom chapter/Legion rules from 4th ed Marines and 3.5 csm. The game used 6th edition, which was a pretty great system, and avoided all the issues that prompted an early edition change (no independent character monstrous creatures, very few psykers, no inquisitors/knights/assassins/formations to break the ally system).

 

As editions changed, the strengths of Heresy's rules just kept on shining in the face of detachments/formations of 7th and the whatever-you-wanted of 8th. The less abstract army building and rules made for a game that just felt more realistic, and rewarded good gameplay instead of good combos. The restrictions and downsides that came with rites, legion traits, and special rules/wargear just added to it.

 

So that's why I love it. Even after the novel series has basically concluded (with a lot of duds), the setting still feels legendary to play in. Even though 2nd removed a lot the downsides, and has more abstraction and combos, the game is still the skeleton of the excellent 6th edition. It's a great game in a great setting. 

 

 

[Billy Butcher]

I didn't like what 40K became (I started in 87 with rogue trader - yes I'm old).

 

HH is like a mature version of what got me hooked in the first place, and yes it still has flaws, but I like it. 

 

And then there's the depth of the backstory, the HH novels etc. There are howlers, but there are also great stories and characters, and they seem less 'cartoonish' and childish compared to what I see in modern 40K.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Billy Butcher

[Rejects of Anvilus]

23 hours ago, Billy Butcher said:

I didn't like what 40K became (I started in 87 with rogue trader - yes I'm old).

 

HH is like a mature version of what got me hooked in the first place, and yes it still has flaws, but I like it. 

 

And then there's the depth of the backstory, the HH novels etc. There are howlers, but there are also great stories and characters, and they seem less 'cartoonish' and childish compared to what I see in modern 40K.

Pretty much the same for me. I still remember back when it was first invented and seeing it grow in those early days. Then seeing it come back and develop into the system we had for so many years, with this coinciding with me falling out of love with 40k in 6th Edition. 

[suxdavide]

I could write tons of words but, to me, this trailer summed it up atmosphere-wise (and I've started with Massacre).

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by suxdavide

[frankendoodle65]

I got into the hobby late 3rd/ early 4th edition, just in time to catch the brilliant chaos space marine codex with all the customisation options you could ask for and armies with so much character. Then the 4th edition codex came out and we all know what happened then...

The 40k chaos models also keep getting more ornate and elaborate, making it harder to customise and create your own miniatures - you're almost forced into making GW's idea of what a chaos army be. 

 

30k by comparison feels like a blank canvas, there's enough scope in the background that you can make whatever you want within reason, and there's so much possibility for kitbashing and customisation with the models - in a lot of ways 30k feels like a spiritual successor to 3rd edition 40k to me. 

Also let's be honest, 30k Sons of Horus are more interesting and characterful than The Black Legion, the same can probably be said for most 30k legions Vs their 40k equivalents.