Price changes(March 2023)

[sarabando]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

 

They said in a post that there were no price increases for the Australian region.

yet

[Ahzek451]

Today is the day. 

Popped around forgeworld and noticed mostly 6% increase on items. Some were 4%. 

Just enough, I'm priced out on certain things. Can't justify $100 on a 5-man terminator squad(heresy t.sons). Oh well. 

[Doghouse]

I think that the price increases are starting to edge me out as well now, I'm relying solely on ebay and the scalpers are making things hard there as well. The hobby is becoming too frustrating for me, if I want something I can't get it and when I can the prices are getting too high. And with indie store discounts being hit it's a bit much these days for me.

[Ahzek451]

16 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

I think that the price increases are starting to edge me out as well now, I'm relying solely on ebay and the scalpers are making things hard there as well. The hobby is becoming too frustrating for me, if I want something I can't get it and when I can the prices are getting too high. And with indie store discounts being hit it's a bit much these days for me.

Good points, I know I'm frustrated at the price increases, but we've been through these before. I think the latest increase coupled with the things you mentioned is driving an overall frustation that is leading to burn-out. I'm frustrated at things coming in and out of stock, FOMO items and missing them on pre-orders, and I also know a few indie stores having their own frustrations with GW making it difficult to order things. 

I do wonder how many others are feeling similar. I just know that "past me" would have picked up that agastus box (despite not being a big fam of the missile launchers), I would have picked up the new dark angels/chaos box just to get my hands on vashtoor and some obliterators. Pass on all of it. "past me" would have liked to keep adding in new units to some of my pet side project armies, but currently, if its not my primary army interests, I won't consider it. Hard focus on only adding to t.sons and necrons, possibly t.sons heresy. 

I wonder if we are finally reaching the peak for a lot of folks. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ahzek451

[Matcap86]

Yup, same here. I feel like I'm in the upper half of GW consumers (have multiple armies for aos, 40k, titanicus, killteam, necromunda and corresponding terrain sets, with quite a bit of FW), but nowadays I feel badgered into getting stuff. Otherwise I'll never be able to get it or it will have increased in price by 30-50% whenever I get to it. Let alone the bubble on the secondhand market. When I got back in the hobby in 2014ish secondhand meant you'd be able to pick up some stuff 30-40 sometimes even 50% cheaper. Nowadays everyone thinks every single mini is OOP, rare, limited nonsense meriting a 300% mark up or more.

 

Buying stuff for the hobby shouldn't be a reluctant, "...well I guess this is the sensible thing to do..." experience.

[spessmarine]

would sting less if price hikes weren't already basically an annual affair
think I got a riptide in store for 95 CAD back in 2018, it is now 140, less of a jump than first expected

 

5 years, 45 dollars or 47.4 % up, a blistering rise

 

not even the worst offender probably, but hard to check, I think maybe daemons like the bloodthirster shot up ridiculously over the course of a couple years

Edited March 7, 2023 by spessmarine

[sarabando]

i have come full circle i started at 6 years old and couldnt afford the hobby im now 36 years old and i cant afford the hobby. 

[Halandaar]

Probably won't change the amount I spend because I'm not prepared to increase my hobby budget to accommodate the increases, but obviously will mean I get less for my money. Doubly so because I buy from discount third-party stockists wherever possible so already took a hit on pricing there this year.

 

That said, honestly GW prices going up 6% doesn't even register in the top 5 things happening at the moment that are likely to stop me from being able to participate in the hobby. Rent, energy and travel costs have all increased by way more in the last year alone and I've got more increases to council tax, phone bills and childcare to look forward to. An extra fiver on a Combat Patrol is small potatoes by comparison (although still unwelcome, to be sure)

 

 

 

 

[MegaVolt87]

12 hours ago, Halandaar said:

Probably won't change the amount I spend because I'm not prepared to increase my hobby budget to accommodate the increases, but obviously will mean I get less for my money. Doubly so because I buy from discount third-party stockists wherever possible so already took a hit on pricing there this year.

 

That said, honestly GW prices going up 6% doesn't even register in the top 5 things happening at the moment that are likely to stop me from being able to participate in the hobby. Rent, energy and travel costs have all increased by way more in the last year alone and I've got more increases to council tax, phone bills and childcare to look forward to. An extra fiver on a Combat Patrol is small potatoes by comparison (although still unwelcome, to be sure)

 

 

 

 

 

Very true. GW probably assumes we also adjust our hobby budget upwards to match thier price increases.  Nope, we just buy less or nothing. I have been weathering the price rises over the years by buying what I need before what I want. Then I have a money pile to burn later if something I want comes along. There are a fair few new releases I would have liked to buy but didn't as a result of GW's pricing for their other systems besides 40k and HH. GW is definitely making less money from me than they could be at any rate. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

2 hours ago, MegaVolt87 said:

we just buy less or nothing

 

That's a pretty generous "we" considering GW has only raised prices but somehow continues to turn profits, usually more than the previous year. I think GW makes 70-80% of their sales from 30-20% of their player base. That would explain all the people complaining about being priced out or thinking GW is some evil corporate overlord yet GW continues to thrive around that 25% profit margin with strong sales.

 

Taxes are up (US), inflation is at a 40 year high (US), energy costs are at an all time high, shipping costs are at an all time high, raw material costs are up and labor costs are up. It's foolish to think that any larger corporation is just going to eat it instead of passing a majority of the costs onto the customers instead. This is nothing unique to GW.

 

I'd also like to point out I'm not a fan of price increases and I think GW does alot of dumb things to try and make a penny that makes the game/hobby worse. I haven't bought a model in over 2 years. Some people spend so much money on plastic soldiers in the first place its no wonder why GW thinks the sky is the limit on price increases. To even see a $60 increase annually on average, which is now less than the cost of one new Xbox or Playstation game, you would have to spend $1000 a year on the hobby on average. Which is nuts. Someone told me in the last price thread it's easy to spend $100's every year, they bought multiple of the heresy starter box and the new leagues of Votann stuff. They are pulling double duty also playing 30k, which is supported by the even more expensive FW. They also don't have to buy the newest and shiniest faction everytime it comes out. Or if they do, did they sell off an older army to supplement the cost? If someone is in the hobby just for the building and painting side, I strongly recommend they get a 3d printer and play around with them. Everyone I know with one loves them and turns experimenting with them into a hobby itself.

 

I used to think these "whales" didn't exist in the hobby until I joined this forum and with some of the marine releases people would be like "oh I need these for three of my chapters" or the cringey "oof my wallet". Like damn, you have (at least) 3 marine armies that you're regularly adding stuff to? And probably other factions as well? No wonder GW can crank out Primaris <insert silly name here> and charge whatever they want.

[jarms48]

On 2/28/2023 at 6:34 PM, Black Knight said:

 

They said in a post that there were no price increases for the Australian region.

 

There's likely not going to be a price rise in Australia for some time. Considering sales are down right now due to how expensive the hobby is here. So they'll likely wait for the rest of the world to catch up before increasing again.

 

For example $84 for 10 Cadians right now. That's 65 points in-game. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by jarms48

[Halandaar]

7 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Snip.

 

I know that hobby "whales" exist, but it feels harsh to be categorised as one by your reckoning for spending half on my hobby in a month what I spend for the privilege of going to work.

 

I mean the amount you're calling excessive is equivalent to going to see my nearest EPL team play one time, or buying a full price console game whilst also subscribing to Game Pass and Netflix. Neither of those leisure behaviours feel excessive, why so for wargaming/modelling?

[GreenScorpion]

@Halandaar Not commenting on what would seem excessive spending, but you do need to keep in mind that disposable income is different for different countries/social status, so @Special Officer Doofy might be comparing with a different financial situation than yours for example.

 

 

Overall what I have seen with Games Workshop is that their prices have increased a lot more than the overall value perception that many people have of their products.

For example I am mostly focused on building and painting miniatures, so whether those are GW's or not is mostly irrelevant for me, but as I keep purchasing plastic kits from different manufacturers, the more I get the notion that considerations about GW being more expensive due to some higher quality overall than their competition is not really true.

Although it is noticeable that some of the other miniature companies lack a bit in terms of design (minor issues with certain arms/poses or lack of instruction booklets for example), the quality of the end result is on the same level if you look at the sprues that you obtain in the end.

Poses of the miniatures produced by the competitors might not be as dynamic as what is GW is doing now, but often the overly dynamic poses seem to make everything far more repetitive for some reason.

In terms of small details many competitors are able to reproduce similar levels of small details although it is often the case that they avoid doing it on many cases to separate things into a lot of parts. The design mentality is often similar to older GW practices but that is not necessarily bad or good on its own, it depends mostly on the intended result.

 

To summarize it depends a lot on what you value in the hobby and in my case GW kits don't have the attractiveness of other kits due to my own preferences and the price they charge for the miniatures (disposable income in Portugal is not that high even for what could be considered mid class people). That is why I have been working on Stargrave models, Wargames Atlantic and many others over the past couple of years and GW has been left behind in my personal case.

[Captain Idaho]

Thank goodness for 3D printers or I'd only get stuff a couple times a year. 

 

There must be a point where the extra money they generate is less than the money they lose from customers being priced out? Doesn't seem to be happening any time soon, but we gotta be close surely?

[Mr. Oddity]

I've always stuck with purchasing GW kits because I enjoy the converting challenge of working with available materials and repurposing them into new combinations, but that's definitely a lot harder to do now. Between the price increases (again), college tuition, and my fiancée currently being out of work so we're on my income only, I'm definitely cutting my purchase of new models to zero for the time being. I was able to get Agastus at a solid discount from my FLGS, and I've got about 10 years of backlog to work with for now, but that'll be it for a while.

[Special Officer Doofy]

11 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

I know that hobby "whales" exist, but it feels harsh to be categorised as one by your reckoning for spending half on my hobby in a month what I spend for the privilege of going to work.

 

I mean the amount you're calling excessive is equivalent to going to see my nearest EPL team play one time, or buying a full price console game whilst also subscribing to Game Pass and Netflix. Neither of those leisure behaviours feel excessive, why so for wargaming/modelling?

 

I'm not trying to shame anyone for how much they spend, It was an explanation on why it doesn't matter if a few people get priced out, there is a portion of the community more than making up for it. The person I directly quoted used the word "we" and was explaining that people are not going to spend 6% more, they will spend the same or even less as if they were speaking for everyone. I was just saying that it was too generous of a "we" considering a majority are still going to spend whatever they want on whatever they want, specially the people that spend what I consider an excessive amount for a miniature wargame hobby.

 

It has nothing to do with my income, I could spend $1,000's a year on Warhammer no issues. I just never would, not for plastic toy soldiers I have to build and paint myself and buy the rules to the game seperately and has to be regularly repurchase and updated. But some people do, and it's why GW thinks the sky is the limit and can do price increases on a regular basis. I haven't bought a kit in over 2 years because they haven't released a kit in over 2 years for either of my factions. The prices going up is not giving me incentive to start a third faction.

 

This whole thread becomes an echo chamber of "GW bad", and while they are certainly not your friend, it's more like "economy bad" and "some people spend so much money on plastic toys that GW charges what they want whether a few people quit or not".

Edited March 9, 2023 by Special Officer Doofy

[MegaVolt87]

On 3/8/2023 at 6:20 PM, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

That's a pretty generous "we" considering GW has only raised prices but somehow continues to turn profits, usually more than the previous year. I think GW makes 70-80% of their sales from 30-20% of their player base. That would explain all the people complaining about being priced out or thinking GW is some evil corporate overlord yet GW continues to thrive around that 25% profit margin with strong sales.

 

Taxes are up (US), inflation is at a 40 year high (US), energy costs are at an all time high, shipping costs are at an all time high, raw material costs are up and labor costs are up. It's foolish to think that any larger corporation is just going to eat it instead of passing a majority of the costs onto the customers instead. This is nothing unique to GW.

 

I'd also like to point out I'm not a fan of price increases and I think GW does alot of dumb things to try and make a penny that makes the game/hobby worse. I haven't bought a model in over 2 years. Some people spend so much money on plastic soldiers in the first place its no wonder why GW thinks the sky is the limit on price increases. To even see a $60 increase annually on average, which is now less than the cost of one new Xbox or Playstation game, you would have to spend $1000 a year on the hobby on average. Which is nuts. Someone told me in the last price thread it's easy to spend $100's every year, they bought multiple of the heresy starter box and the new leagues of Votann stuff. They are pulling double duty also playing 30k, which is supported by the even more expensive FW. They also don't have to buy the newest and shiniest faction everytime it comes out. Or if they do, did they sell off an older army to supplement the cost? If someone is in the hobby just for the building and painting side, I strongly recommend they get a 3d printer and play around with them. Everyone I know with one loves them and turns experimenting with them into a hobby itself.

 

I used to think these "whales" didn't exist in the hobby until I joined this forum and with some of the marine releases people would be like "oh I need these for three of my chapters" or the cringey "oof my wallet". Like damn, you have (at least) 3 marine armies that you're regularly adding stuff to? And probably other factions as well? No wonder GW can crank out Primaris <insert silly name here> and charge whatever they want.

 

Call me crazy/ a moron, but I don't think a business model built on 20-30 percent of customers is not a good thing in the long run for a company's revanue, especially for something like old school tabletop wargaming, which is facing competition from other competing discretionary consumer money sinks, many with better relative value propositions. I would go further to say much if that is the sunk costs beliefs of quite a portion of that 20-30 percent. As a result I wouldn't put much faith in that portion indefinitely, that would be something that bites you long term potentially. GW has fallen firmly into the corpo cult of the quarterly earnings report these days. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by MegaVolt87

[Warden-Paints]

I remember when start collecting boxes launched at £40/45, and it seemed like everything was gonna be all right. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

43 minutes ago, MegaVolt87 said:

 

Call me crazy/ a moron, but I don't think a business model built on 20-30 percent of customers is a good thing in the long run for a company's revanue, especially for something like old school tabletop wargaming, which is facing competition from other competing discretionary consumer money sinks, many with better relative value propositions. I would go further to say much if that is the sunk costs beliefs of quite a portion of that 20-30 percent. As a result I wouldn't put much faith in that portion indefinitely, that would be something that bites you long term potentially. 

 

Oh I'm not saying it is a good idea, and eventually they will price people out. You're definately not either of those. It reminds me alot of cellphone games and micro transactions, they make a majority of their money on a minority. Who cares if a bunch of people leave bad reviews and quit playing, they maybe only paid a dollar or two. As long as the guy that pumps $100 into it to get around time gates or buy in game currency or whatever keeps paying/playing, it more than makes up for the ones who quit. But those never last that long. Like you said, it's more of a short lived experience.

 

And it's not like it's a business model for GW, it's just something that happens. Some people are just going to throw alot of money at them and they are going to take it, regardless of 6% here and 5% there. If they keep raising prices and then all the sudden make alot less money, I think they will adjust.

[Captain Idaho]

GW makes an absurdly high profit margin. Much higher than the usually expected amount for a successfully running business. GW can afford to dip into that but it will affect the share price.

 

But what also affects the share price is when bubbles burst. New blood not sticking around is unpredictable until it happens and pricing folk out is a tipping point. GW will never go under is a mantra we all chant, but things happen suddenly sometimes. Just remains to be seen if the red line comes before they realise.

 

I'm not that pessimistic but in business terms this is all possible!

[GreenScorpion]

The latest half year report from GW indicated that while their revenue is still increasing, their profit is stabilizing which means they are currently on a potentially problematic situation, because stagnation of profits is something that tends to happen even with increased revenue, mostly due to the increase in expenses, but usually can lead to a cycle of stable profits before a new cycle of growth or it can lead to a decrease in profits (which has happened before to GW).

 

Shareholders typically expect constant growth in terms of profits, but it is extremely difficult even with lower profit margins (for reference automotive companies often consider 7% net profits something sustainable and few actually reach those values) and GW has a really high profit margin at the moment, something which is difficult to maintain long term (many larger companies have tried and failed to ride the train of constant growth).

 

If people purchase less or invest in some other companies to get their hobby supplies, we might see an inversion of the growth from the previous years, something that would force GW to make some changes (none of those changes would be a direct price reduction obviously). Their pressure on retailers with their reduction of the retailer margin might be one of the changes I mentioned, an attempt to force people to buy direct, which might be a direct consequence from the reduction in online sales mentioned in the latest half year report.

The recycling trial might be another way to cut costs, as companies have to pay "compensations" based on emissions and such, a reduction of those payments would help cut the expenses/taxation and potentially compensate the increases in other areas, especially because those environmental taxes are likely to increase in the coming years.

[Closet Skeleton]

If you have years of hobby backlog and aren't able to buy more stuff due to the widespread cost of living crisis then stopping buying new stuff is probably a good idea.

 

I've used decade old armies in tournaments last year without making a single purchase, no one with a large collection needs to buy anything to continue with the hobby. I'd have a lot more reservations in advising new people to start collecting than I would in telling established hobbyiests to not think too negatively.

[Special Officer Doofy]

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

GW makes an absurdly high profit margin. Much higher than the usually expected amount for a successfully running business. GW can afford to dip into that but it will affect the share price.

 

But what also affects the share price is when bubbles burst. New blood not sticking around is unpredictable until it happens and pricing folk out is a tipping point. GW will never go under is a mantra we all chant, but things happen suddenly sometimes. Just remains to be seen if the red line comes before they realise.

 

I'm not that pessimistic but in business terms this is all possible!

 

I think with all the instant gratification and electronics kids have today they are going to have an uphill battle recruiting younger players at the rate they used to. My daughter is 11 and in no way does she have the attention for painting Warhammer or learning just some basic rules. I was in the hobby before I was 11. Wasn't very good mind you haha. 

 

Lack of newer younger blood will bite them in the butt someday. And then the sticker shock of the prices will turn parents away from wanting their kids to participate in the hobby. It's going to be a hurdle for them for sure long term.

[Burni]

I think it's going to interesting to watch a company like Hasbro which seems like a good guide to where GW could end up by not giving decent focus to younger gamers (by pricing them out etc).

 

Hasbro is pretty much reliant on older collectors now, living off their nostalgia buying. But they aren't making things for the next generation to be nostalgic about. Now I understand a big part of that is that kids aren't into toys like we were (certainly my son isn't) so it's easy to see why they switched to cater to the older market, but they need to make more of an effort to find something that works otherwise, they'll have no market down the road.

[ThePenitentOne]

I suspect that GW is about to discover what the market will bear.

 

Canadian prices are out now, and they didn't go up 5% or even 10%. Some went up 33%, some went up 25%.

 

Combined with a hard reset edition churn? I suspect they'll lose a minimum 25% of their player base, although if forums are any indicator, much of that base didn't like the current state of the game anyway, and they may have been hemorrhaging players for some time now.

 

There had been a slim, outside chance that GW could have roped me into 10- an effective crusade replacement, or a continuance on existing crusade material would have helped; a strong, early Imperial Agents dex and a confirmation of Emperor's Children could have done it. But with both the prices and the edition change happening at the same time? 

 

Not a chance.

 

I did have some things I wanted to buy before the edition ended, so that I'd have the 9th edition in its "completed state" - I was interested in KT Kroot, Breachers, Corsairs and Novitiates. I wanted Eldar scout bikes. I needed heavy intercessors to finish a DW Indomitor KT and two more bikes to finish a Fortis KT. I needed dexes for GK, Ksons, Custodes and Guard. I wanted a Guard command squad and Valkyrie. But now that's $1500 CAD or more, and I'm considering just saying It, I've got what I've got.

 

At my current pace, it's enough to keep me painting for a decade, so it's enough.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch
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