'Siege of Terra - The End and the Death Volume 1' by Dan Abnett

[EverythingIsGreat]

Good day,

 

If one considers the Siege of Terra as a setting, the treatment makes sense, as precursor to game supplements, miniatures and spinoffs. And more stories exploring aspects of the SoT to keep a level of interest and fill in the overall setting. It is possible that after the SoT is (nominally) over more peripheral stories about it and about the Horus Heresy will be published. The cost of supporting 3 main settings (WH40K, HH and SoT) is probably manageable since so many components can be reused/interchangeable.

[b1soul]

SoT is more like a mini-setting within the HH setting. The biggest set-piece in the history of the Imperium.

 

It's temporally a bit too short to be its own setting imo on par with the rest of the Heresy or Great Crusade or Unification Wars or "modern" 40K

 

(My kingdom for a Unification Wars tabletop RPG)

[Scribe]

6 hours ago, Corinthus said:

I don't understand why you get so heated with anything Abnett related...

 

I'll finish the book and let you know.

[EverythingIsGreat]

1 hour ago, b1soul said:

SoT is more like a mini-setting within the HH setting. The biggest set-piece in the history of the Imperium.

 

It's temporally a bit too short to be its own setting imo on par with the rest of the Heresy or Great Crusade or Unification Wars or "modern" 40K

 

(My kingdom for a Unification Wars tabletop RPG)

Well, having a narrow focus (basically one grand campaign with supporting actions) it may more easily translate into multi-faceted game scenarios. Compare the Unification Wars which presumably involved multiple campaigns over extended time periods. 

[DukeLeto69]

4 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

I have been thinking about this and i hope that one day we get the real story on how that came about. I cant decide if Abnett started writing and one day called into BL and said 'there is no way i can make this one book' and they went back and forth and eventually agreed to 1-? books ( or some version of this).

 

Or if BL told Dan 'Write it and it will sell' and just waited for the final page count.  

 

Did they get to 1.5/2.5 books and push him for more to close book 2/3.  Or did try and fail to get it down to 1/2.  I want the behind the scenes story on this.

 

On a purely curious level, if he was commissioned to write 1 book and delivered 3 would it affect his payment?  Did they have to re negotiate his royalties?  On a cynical level Was he having fun? Or did he pull a Beatles and write himself a new swinging pool? Its the finale of the HH the guaranteed sales will never ever ever be better or as certain for him and BL . 

Can only answer your last point on royalties (although the only people who actually know are BL and Abnett of course).

 

Abnett will have an established rate for an advance. It will almost certainly be the biggest advance any BL author gets due to his sales and popularity.

 

I suspect he was paid one advance for delivering one book. He/they may have negotiated a further advance once the scale and increased scope was agreed as he would naturally be spending longer writing it.

 

I suspect Abnett is one of the few BL authors who sells enough to quickly earn out his advance and start receiving royalties. Again, as THE big hitter in the BL stable, his royalty rate is likely higher than most/all other BL authors. 

 

As HH:SoT books are released in Special/Ltd editions and HB simultaneously, Abnett is likely to earn out his advance quickly too.

[DarkChaplain]

7 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

Or if BL told Dan 'Write it and it will sell' and just waited for the final page count.  

 

From the interviews, it seems very much like Dan realized he had a lot he wanted to write and called the editors about it, and they gave him the go-ahead to just write it, they'll worry about the rest later. Definitely seems like Dan struck a creative vein of gold and kept churning things out.

 

And while I believe some parts were added "by committee", basically, like Rann and Zephon, I honestly don't believe that this whole multi-parter was BL/GW trying to just double or triple dip for the sake of it. It's a matter of logistics and their most favorite author being let loose to tackle it without worrying about word counts in this specific instance. Which is honestly something I wish they'd do more often in general - Fehervari, for example, has been on record saying that he struggles with the limitations and would've added a lot more to books like Cult of the Spiral Dawn, and his shorts tend to go over-count pretty often, to varying results with the editors.

[EverythingIsGreat]

In universe:

This is an apocalyptic situation of incomprehensible scale. Cardinal events with galactic significance such as the Great Crusade and conflicts of unprecedented viciousness such as the Horus Heresy culminate in a purported endgame (the Siege of Terra), where at minutes to midnight no-one’s plans have survived intact, where years-long campaigns have lost all tactical and strategic cohesion and the outcome depends on the coin-toss of desperate and/or delusional last-minute gambits. Nothing has been settled, everything still depends on what happens the next, unpredictable, moment. Maybe a small, insignificant action will tip the scale. Maybe that last and very personal confrontation of the two principals will do it instead. But in-universe absolutely nobody knows with certainty. Even the protagonists that are insane somehow recognize that everything is still up in the air and nothing can be taken for granted. As Abaddon says, everything is broken.

 

The storyline developing this way is an excellent choice. We as readers are omniscient, and part of the fascination is seeing how story characters react to situations whose resolution is known to us. I believe Abnett’s telling manages to convey this in a very skillful way, and his presentation satisfies both in-universe and, I am sure, IP development/editorial concerns.

[Dornfist]

13 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

I have been thinking about this and i hope that one day we get the real story on how that came about. I cant decide if Abnett started writing and one day called into BL and said 'there is no way i can make this one book' and they went back and forth and eventually agreed to 1-? books ( or some version of this).

 

Or if BL told Dan 'Write it and it will sell' and just waited for the final page count.  

 

Did they get to 1.5/2.5 books and push him for more to close book 2/3.  Or did try and fail to get it down to 1/2.  I want the behind the scenes story on this.

 

On a purely curious level, if he was commissioned to write 1 book and delivered 3 would it affect his payment?  Did they have to re negotiate his royalties?  On a cynical level Was he having fun? Or did he pull a Beatles and write himself a new swinging pool? Its the finale of the HH the guaranteed sales will never ever ever be better or as certain for him and BL . 

I would be interested to learn this "behind the scenes" fun tidbits too.

[System Sound]

15 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

And while I believe some parts were added "by committee", basically, like Rann and Zephon, I honestly don't believe that this whole multi-parter was BL/GW trying to just double or triple dip for the sake of it. It's a matter of logistics and their most favorite author being let loose to tackle it without worrying about word counts in this specific instance. Which is honestly something I wish they'd do more often in general - Fehervari, for example, has been on record saying that he struggles with the limitations and would've added a lot more to books like Cult of the Spiral Dawn, and his shorts tend to go over-count pretty often, to varying results with the editors.

I dont think any of us are ready for Fehervari unleashed. I'm pretty sure a novel with no limits from him would summon demons and warp reality while reading it...

 

As for what led to multiple volumes of TEATD. I doubt that we will ever really know. Just like we don't fully know what happen between Parrot and GW.

[Nagashsnee]

27 minutes ago, System Sound said:

I dont think any of us are ready for Fehervari unleashed. I'm pretty sure a novel with no limits from him would summon demons and warp reality while reading it...

 

Finally a LE pre order worth killing over.  I would pre order that book before they even told me whats its about. I would pre order that book even if they revealed it has a my little pony cross over.  

 

The fact that Fehervari does not get more BL support and love is nothing short of criminal.  

[DarkChaplain]

People harp on Laurie Goulding a lot, but he's apparently been one of Fehervari's bigger proponents among BL. His departure also meant the loss of a strong voice of support among the editors, I guess.

[Arguleon Veq]

What would you recommend to start with for someone who has not read Fehervari?

[Sothalor]

47 minutes ago, Arguleon Veq said:

What would you recommend to start with for someone who has not read Fehervari?

 

Fire Caste.

[DukeLeto69]

2 minutes ago, Sothalor said:

 

Fire Caste.

Yep! While his stories are certainly not chronological, I think reading them in published order is the best approach.

[wecanhaveallthree]

Fire Caste is an absolute banger. Apocalypse Now IN SPACE. Fehervari's whole world construction just oozes with malice and horror. Nearly everything is wrong in some way, wrong in a visceral, uncomfortable way to us as readers - but because this is 40K, not even the most genre-savvy character clues in until things start getting really bad. It's 'DON'T GO INTO THE HOUSE!' - the book. There are so many moments that I recall raising the actual hair on my arms. Brrr.

 

Fehervari does seem to get as much support as he wants. The afterword to Requiem seemed to suggest he was burned out - but he seemed to find the passion again quite quickly (which can often be the case when you feel you've got no more left to give). I much prefer him to go at his own pace and craft stories in his own fashion, because the man writes Warhammer like nobody else.

[Petitioner's City]

On 3/27/2023 at 1:34 PM, Inferno XXVth said:

Reading the book, it felt to me as if Dan Abnett just wanted to have his fun.

 

Experimenting with words is fun. Finding new ways to convey a certain impression or message is fun. Drawing from different terminologies and lexicons, mixing them, and cobbling them is fun. It's great than Dan Abnett can still have fun while writing a book literally so big that couldn't be printed one piece and Emperor-knows-how-many novels, short stories, etc. etc. A  writer having his fun is a good canary-in-the-mine for the quality of the work, because once a writer start to simply dump words because he's contractually obligated to, you know things are bad.

 

There is a rather good article on Tor.com that has some relevance to discussion of The End and the Death at https://www.tor.com/2023/03/30/style-texture-boundaries-on-being-a-fluid-reader/

 

Most especially it's inclusion of this tweet:

 

 

 

I do feel that in having "fun" as you describe it, Abnett is also expressing prose-forward writing. It's such a love of text as text, of language as language, and in the evidentness and visibility of writing as writing (as opposed to writing often having to be "invisible" in order to tell the plot). 

 

To quote the article:

 

Quote

To some degree I’m with Lincoln Michel, whose piece on “invisible prose” I linked above; I don’t really think any prose is invisible. Still, I also understand what readers mean when they say that: They mean the words are under the story, for lack of a better way to put it. You notice what’s happening, rather than how the author describes it happening. Michel’s point is that a story is its prose; you can’t take them apart. But I like Max Gladstone’s way of putting it; he proposes an “additional tension: between texture and aerodynamics.”

 

This clicked immediately into my brain—yes, exactly. A texture you slow down to consider and feel, or an aerodynamic style (but it is a style!) that keeps you moving smoothly along. One is not without the qualities of the other, but the ratio changes. The ratio changes in everything, book to book, even page to page.

 

Fluidity has texture. Fluidity makes you stop and feel the edges, the seams, the velvet underpinnings and the granite backdrops.

 

I for one am so glad Abnett did go for "visible" writing, or textured writing, in the book.

 

 

 

[Roomsky]

I'm a diehard proponent of prose-forward writing. There are exceptions, but I generally think the best art is using its chosen medium to the fullest. If a novel has invisible prose, why be a novel at all? I love the written word and I dislike books that would rather be a film.

 

Abnett annoyed me some with TEatD but I'm also thankful he went balls to the wall. There's some wonderfully poetic passages within, when he isn't all the way up his own behind.

[Petitioner's City]

2 hours ago, Roomsky said:

I'm a diehard proponent of prose-forward writing. There are exceptions, but I generally think the best art is using its chosen medium to the fullest. If a novel has invisible prose, why be a novel at all? I love the written word and I dislike books that would rather be a film.

 

Abnett annoyed me some with TEatD but I'm also thankful he went balls to the wall. There's some wonderfully poetic passages within, when he isn't all the way up his own behind.

 

Now if someone can write a 40k novella in the style of Ali Smith's seasons! 

[Scribe]

'Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.'

 

Lets just get things framed here.

 

Abnett can write. Abnett can write well. Abnett can write well. Abnett, can write.

 

We all good so far?

 

I'm a Chaos fan. I'm a 40K fan. I've contemplated the setting and its messages for the majority (51%+) of my life. Far more than that actually but it is what it is. The Imperium is the protagonist. Chaos is the dark reflection. Combined? We have humanity, us. The basis of the story. As I set this 659 page brick down, I have many thoughts. I did not read it in a sitting. Not even close. I was particularly annoyed at the beginning but well...he got through it eventually.

 

This is a good book. However even in this book, there is a better book that could have been delivered. I'm sorry, its just true.

 

I will say that we COULD get the something great here if the 2nd book brings it all together. Khorne knows, it does not need to be 3 books. It doesnt, at all.

 

Spoiler

The first 200 pages could go. At 60ish pages in, he had mischaracterized several characters, and rolled back some of the work done in prior parts of the SERIES.

 

Yes, SERIES. That is what this was pitched as right? Its what was sold? A series of books leading to a conclusion of the Horus Heresy.

 

Is that what this book is though? I dont think it is anymore, and by the end, I'm convinced it is not as we are pretty much confirmed by Actae (look up Actae...)

 

Its not the Horus Heresy. It may not even be the story of one man's tragedy and vision. That is what it was once, but now?

 

No, Abnett would have us believe that it is the fall of humanity. Like the Eldar fall, but also the death of culture. Which amusingly is both grandiose AND myopic. Terra is not 'humanity'. Humanity was already from one edge of the Galaxy to the other. Unless the suggestion is that the birth of the Dark King is going to suck the souls out of all of humanity...culture would go on, as variable as the outfits of the Imperial Guard.

 

So thats my major take away from this, Abnett didnt want to just continue the SoT Series, as an offshoot from the HH series. That wasnt grand enough.

 

Abnett wanted to write the story differently, he wanted to tell a DIFFERENT story all together. Good? Bad? Indifferent? Right now, I'm fairly annoyed by it honestly. If he cannot wrap it up in a 2nd book, I'll be livid.

 

Quick non-spoilers?

 

His word choices? Its over played. Its the lead guitar going on a solo and overwhelming the band because he wanted to.

 

Multiple portions could have been cut. Maybe they get validated by the last book, I certainly wouldnt be surprised if its Garro all over again for a few of these plot lines however.

His writing of the Custodes is egregiously bad. If he ruins Valdor in the next book, I wont take it well. I again (framing) am a Chaos fan. What he did with the Custodes was just not correct to the setting. He wrote them as automatons in other sections. Its just...probably one of the weakest parts of the book to me, and repeated several times over.

 

Spoiler

Loken is 100% a Mary Sue, but actually all the Imperials are.

 

Why did we get large word count put towards 2 specific marines? Branding? I dont know but it sure seemed superfluous in padding out the page count while their kill counters hit comedic levels. I want their Bolters on my side thats for sure.

 

Spoiler

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/horus-heresy-imperial-fists-fafnir-rann-2022

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/horus-heresy-blood-angels-dominion-zephon-2022

 

Those are the gripes, and it wounds me to say it, but they mar what could have been an amazing book.

 

Why do we suffer? Thats great stuff. His dialogue? Great. His way of communicating the different character POV? Great. The themes he is touching on, some of the implications? Great.

 

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN GREAT.

 

Spoiler

The Emperor stole power from the 4 Gods. Stated multiple times. Collection 888? The implications are great.

 

Oh, and Mortis still did the most with the Oll/Perpetual plot, what kinda joke is that? The fact they made mention of his Catholicism is still one of the most jarring, teeth grating additions to the canon Abnett has done.

 

6/10, could have been a 9. Will be an 8 if he actually finishes some of these plot lines.

 

The clocks have run out Mr Abnett. Finish the story.

[Moonreaper666]

4 hours ago, Scribe said:

'Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.'

 

Lets just get things framed here.

 

Abnett can write. Abnett can write well. Abnett can write well. Abnett, can write.

 

We all good so far?

 

I'm a Chaos fan. I'm a 40K fan. I've contemplated the setting and its messages for the majority (51%+) of my life. Far more than that actually but it is what it is. The Imperium is the protagonist. Chaos is the dark reflection. Combined? We have humanity, us. The basis of the story. As I set this 659 page brick down, I have many thoughts. I did not read it in a sitting. Not even close. I was particularly annoyed at the beginning but well...he got through it eventually.

 

This is a good book. However even in this book, there is a better book that could have been delivered. I'm sorry, its just true.

 

I will say that we COULD get the something great here if the 2nd book brings it all together. Khorne knows, it does not need to be 3 books. It doesnt, at all.

 

  Hide contents

The first 200 pages could go. At 60ish pages in, he had mischaracterized several characters, and rolled back some of the work done in prior parts of the SERIES.

 

Yes, SERIES. That is what this was pitched as right? Its what was sold? A series of books leading to a conclusion of the Horus Heresy.

 

Is that what this book is though? I dont think it is anymore, and by the end, I'm convinced it is not as we are pretty much confirmed by Actae (look up Actae...)

 

Its not the Horus Heresy. It may not even be the story of one man's tragedy and vision. That is what it was once, but now?

 

No, Abnett would have us believe that it is the fall of humanity. Like the Eldar fall, but also the death of culture. Which amusingly is both grandiose AND myopic. Terra is not 'humanity'. Humanity was already from one edge of the Galaxy to the other. Unless the suggestion is that the birth of the Dark King is going to suck the souls out of all of humanity...culture would go on, as variable as the outfits of the Imperial Guard.

 

So thats my major take away from this, Abnett didnt want to just continue the SoT Series, as an offshoot from the HH series. That wasnt grand enough.

 

Abnett wanted to write the story differently, he wanted to tell a DIFFERENT story all together. Good? Bad? Indifferent? Right now, I'm fairly annoyed by it honestly. If he cannot wrap it up in a 2nd book, I'll be livid.

 

Quick non-spoilers?

 

His word choices? Its over played. Its the lead guitar going on a solo and overwhelming the band because he wanted to.

 

Multiple portions could have been cut. Maybe they get validated by the last book, I certainly wouldnt be surprised if its Garro all over again for a few of these plot lines however.

His writing of the Custodes is egregiously bad. If he ruins Valdor in the next book, I wont take it well. I again (framing) am a Chaos fan. What he did with the Custodes was just not correct to the setting. He wrote them as automatons in other sections. Its just...probably one of the weakest parts of the book to me, and repeated several times over.

 

  Hide contents

Loken is 100% a Mary Sue, but actually all the Imperials are.

 

Why did we get large word count put towards 2 specific marines? Branding? I dont know but it sure seemed superfluous in padding out the page count while their kill counters hit comedic levels. I want their Bolters on my side thats for sure.

 

  Hide contents

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/horus-heresy-imperial-fists-fafnir-rann-2022

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/horus-heresy-blood-angels-dominion-zephon-2022

 

Those are the gripes, and it wounds me to say it, but they mar what could have been an amazing book.

 

Why do we suffer? Thats great stuff. His dialogue? Great. His way of communicating the different character POV? Great. The themes he is touching on, some of the implications? Great.

 

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN GREAT.

 

  Hide contents

The Emperor stole power from the 4 Gods. Stated multiple times. Collection 888? The implications are great.

 

Oh, and Mortis still did the most with the Oll/Perpetual plot, what kinda joke is that? The fact they made mention of his Catholicism is still one of the most jarring, teeth grating additions to the canon Abnett has done.

 

6/10, could have been a 9. Will be an 8 if he actually finishes some of these plot lines.

 

The clocks have run out Mr Abnett. Finish the story.

 

Clearly you forgot that...

 

Spoiler

No Terra = No Astronomicon = Slow, Very Dangerous Warp Travel for the Imperium!

 

Horus taking Terra = Himalayan Prisoners Freed = Destruction of Humanity, Eldar, Orks, Necrons AND Tyranids in just a few years!!!

 

Each of the artifacts or prisoners in the Himalayan prison is capable of doing more damage than Daemon Primarch!

 

Horus taking Terra not only results in ANOTHER Eye of Terror but also the Warp getting much stronger!

 

My main gripe is that Dan doesn't show Daemons inflitrating the Inner Sanctum, fighting Custodes to reach the Throne!!

 

Spoiler

Amit and his 10k Marines should be fighting countless Daemons inside Eternity Gate!

 

Loken will fight Abaddon and die. Their duel will be just as important as Horus vs Sang and Emps!

[DukeLeto69]

@Scribe I’d say that is a fair and balanced critique. There is an irony about Abnett in this instance. He has been criticised (rightly in some cases but generally it has become a trope as it really is only some of his books) that he rushes his endings. He runs out of pages (when working to a BL brief and needed 25-50 more for a satisfying climax that wraps things up). And yet here he has been given free rein and would ironically have benefitted from some strong editorial oversight and some judicious culling.

 

A great book hidden within the pages of a good book seems to be the general consensus. Remove some of what feels like padding, and perhaps tone down the overly clever word play and maybe that great book would have emerged?

[Scribe]

4 hours ago, DukeLeto69 said:

A great book hidden within the pages of a good book seems to be the general consensus. Remove some of what feels like padding, and perhaps tone down the overly clever word play and maybe that great book would have emerged?

 

Yes, that's my view on it.

[Corinthus]

Well, given how there is a whole chunk of history called the Old Night, where humans hunkered in the back corners of the galaxy while cataclysmic forces from the DAoT ravaged the galaxy… I think is safe to say that culture did indeed die and every human planet was left alone in the stars without conection to one another. Also, the degeneration and perversion that followed in some of these worlds is also a big theme of the era and the follow up Great Crusade.

in Terra, before the Unification Wars, the situation was similar and so much knowledge was lost.

 

Horus liberating Chaos unrestrained upon humanity might as well be a extinction scenario where humanity (not just the Imperium) dissolves and waits for the inevitable death.

 

Also, I’m not sure if Chaos is one side of humanity’s coin. For a long time it’s been said and told that Chaos just burns down everyone that gets to close. We see it with a lot of regular chaos characters. We see it with Horus. Chaos is not a side of anything, it’s just what it’s name says: a passion fueled whirlwind that destroys everything in its wake for the delight of four extradimensional entities fighting eachother.

[Scribe]

25 minutes ago, Corinthus said:

Also, I’m not sure if Chaos is one side of humanity’s coin. For a long time it’s been said and told that Chaos just burns down everyone that gets to close. We see it with a lot of regular chaos characters. We see it with Horus. Chaos is not a side of anything, it’s just what it’s name says: a passion fueled whirlwind that destroys everything in its wake for the delight of four extradimensional entities fighting eachother.

 

Why do we suffer?

 

I mean it's right in the book. You are missing what makes Chaos in the first place.

 

EDIT: Abnett in particular, ADB as well actually in First Heretic, has absolutely demonstrated that Chaos has been with Humanity every step of the way.

 

The 888 Collection? 100% is to reflect that Chaos and Humanity are linked. Why do we suffer? Because the Emperor knows that emotion (and emotion = Chaos) is a part of Humanity that cannot be removed without consequence, and is why the Primarchs are what they are.

 

Without Chaos, Humanity wouldnt be what it is, because Chaos = Emotional echo in the Warp.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Scribe

[DarkChaplain]

Chaos isn't just humanity, however. Species with a far longer history than humanity already called it the primordial annihilator. Even the Necrons, who have been asleep since the last T-Rex died, have a history with trying to contain it.

Humanity is just very numerous and less-developed to withstand the influences of Chaos, so it serves as a fertile breeding ground.