'Siege of Terra - The End and the Death Volume 1' by Dan Abnett

[Scribe]

24 minutes ago, DarkChaplain said:

Chaos isn't just humanity, however. Species with a far longer history than humanity already called it the primordial annihilator. Even the Necrons, who have been asleep since the last T-Rex died, have a history with trying to contain it.

Humanity is just very numerous and less-developed to withstand the influences of Chaos, so it serves as a fertile breeding ground.

 

Sure, granted. Slaanesh was 'born' by Eldar. The Warp was disturbed by the actions of the War in Heaven (which one, depending on which retcon GW has gone with in any given edition) but sure.

 

I think its an impossible position however, to argue that for the coin of humanity, its anything but the Imperium on one side, and Chaos on the other, because as this book makes clear, we have emotion for a reason, and that emotion is exactly what Chaos feeds off of.

 

Thats been consistent lore for decades.

[Moonreaper666]

Who was Horus talking to? The ones he mistook for...

 

Spoiler

Sejanus and Laylak

 

He mistakes Argonis for Maloghurst but I don't know the others

[b1soul]

I guess the fundamental truth posed by Chaos is that every species, humanity included, must grapple between Reason and Un-Reason: powerful lower-consciousness emotions and urges being the antithesis of higher-consciousness rational problem-solving.

 

Even in the real world, humanity's failure to embrace reason over "lizard-brain" impulses may well result in our self-destruction.

 

Tzeentch is interesting, because its realm may include extreme rational intelligence but in service of self-aggrandising and destructive or enslaving schemes.

[Scribe]

11 hours ago, b1soul said:

I guess the fundamental truth posed by Chaos is that every species, humanity included, must grapple between Reason and Un-Reason: powerful lower-consciousness emotions and urges being the antithesis of higher-consciousness rational problem-solving.

 

Even in the real world, humanity's failure to embrace reason over "lizard-brain" impulses may well result in our self-destruction.

 

Tzeentch is interesting, because its realm may include extreme rational intelligence but in service of self-aggrandising and destructive or enslaving schemes.

 

It goes deeper though. That 'un-reason' is emotion, and if we take this book as an authority on it, its that emotion, which provides the inspiration that bridges gaps and is a short cut to solutions which pure logic and reason, may never find.

 

Honestly, the 'why do we suffer' portion was the best part of the book.

[b1soul]

powerful lower-consciousness emotions and urges being the antithesis of higher-consciousness rational problem-solving.

 

Are you saying this is not quite right? In 40K, powerful emotions are the highway to hell.

[Scribe]

22 minutes ago, b1soul said:

powerful lower-consciousness emotions and urges being the antithesis of higher-consciousness rational problem-solving.

 

Are you saying this is not quite right? In 40K, powerful emotions are the highway to hell.

 

Based on the book, both of these statements are true.

 

1. Emotions are the cause of suffering, as emotions are the root of the power of Chaos/The Warp.

2. Emotions are necessary, as they offer a route to solutions which pure rational logic, cannot arrive at.

 

Emotions in short, per this book, are inspiration. Look at all the navel gazing Abnett puts in these books, and what hes getting at to me is clear.

 

History -> Art -> Humanity -> Emotions -> Chaos

 

He is (to me) making it about as subtle as a thunder hammer. Humanity needs its emotion, its passion, and with it not only do we get art, and history, and poetry, and BOOKS, but we also get Chaos, disorder, and suffering.

 

Its all there in a loop. Yes, emotion, passion, this is the root of Chaos. This is the root problem. "Why do we suffer?" he asks? And the Emperor shows him. Its necessary, its part of the human condition.

 

This is also on the flip side exactly why he did a massive disservice to the custodes in this book, but thats a different topic. 

[Moonreaper666]

27 minutes ago, b1soul said:

powerful lower-consciousness emotions and urges being the antithesis of higher-consciousness rational problem-solving.

 

Are you saying this is not quite right? In 40K, powerful emotions are the highway to hell.

 

Spoiler

The Emperor states that the same things that made Horus fell will also help Sanginius succeed

 

Two sides of the same coin. Like Megatron and Optimus

 

[Moonreaper666]

I doubt that special weapon

Spoiler

Fo's Terminus Decree would kill every Chaos Space Marine

 

It feels like a weapon the Imperium would use when its already truly lost everything

 

Spoiler

Just to hurt but not permanently harm Chaos for the Imperium's pride

 

[b1soul]

A bit late doinf this...but just posting a rough summary of the various story strands for posterity. I'll probably need this to refresh myself when vol. 2 hits the shelves.

 

1. Oll, John and crew continue their way to and through the Inner Palace. Along the way, we get Alpha Legion shenanigand with Pech and Herzog. The Oll gang gets captured by a Custodian and interrogated by Khalid Hassan. They are finally allowed into the Throneroom, but the Emperor and his strike team have already boarded the VS. They have some words with Vulkan. Oll thinks he has come all this way just to fail.

2. Malcador tries to commune with the Emperor. They do so, and the Emp rises with Vulkan, Sanguinius, Dorn and Valdor present. The Emp and his team teleport assault the VS but things go very awry. The VS itself is the conduit or epicentre of a massive growing Warp rift, into which the whole of Terra is sinking. Malcador the Hero operates the Golden Throne in the meanwhile, but not before psychically transmitting his "living will" to select Chosen. Sanguinius and Valdor (separately) fight their way across the VS. Dorn is tempted by Khorne in a desert landscape for what feels like a century (time flows differently in the Warp). The Emp and his Companions arrive on an embarkation deck VIII where there should only be six. The Warp/Horus overpowers the Custodes' control/reason and directs them to attack the Emp.  The Emp is forced to kill some and psychically dominates the rest, before freeing those he can and mercy-killing those he can't. The Emperor is drawing on the Warp. His power is terrifying to behold for Malcador, as he watches with mindsight from the Throne. An angry Emp (and a handful of surviving Companions) is now coming for Horus, burning through the VS. 

3. Drunk Horus (drunk on Chaos, that is) appraises the situation and makes semi-lucid decisions, like dropping the VS void shields (making it possible for the Emp's teleport assault). Horus regains lucidity after the Emp boards. In his head, he was only muffling his power, purposefully crippling his mind to draw the Emperor into his trap. If he had not masked his true form, the Emo may not have risked a boarding action. Not sure if this is what the real deal is...or just the Four allowing their puppet to have its delusions.

4. At the Hollow Mountain, the DA try to fix the Astronomican and prepare for an incoming DG assault. The assault led by Typhus arrives early due to the Warp instability on Terra. The fighting is desperate and the DG's Warp-conjured despair breaks the DA's fighting resolve. Zahariel dons the mask of Lord Cypher in this desperate hour and helps Corswain to rally.

5. Keeler continues to lead the Conclave, who aid fleeing refugees and loyalist supply lines. I thought this was one of the less interesting threads, but toward the end, it seems like Keeler is headed for the Hollow Mountain with Zi-Meng of the astropathic choir in tow.

6. Rann, later joined by Archamus, Zephon and Nahami, fights on outside the Eternity Gate. The later chapters start reading a bit like bolter porn to me...running and gunning.

7. Loken moves to join the fight at the Processional of the Eternals, but the Warp saturation on Terra has distorted time and space, and he can't seem to make his way to where he wants to be.

8. Sindermann and Mauer search for anti-Chaos knowledge in the Hall of Leng. Loken shows up and assists. They find hatch in the wall which the archivist does not recognise. Loken enters and...this is the VS.

9. Some remnants of the command HQ at Bhab fall back to the Tower of Hegemon to continue coordinating the faltering defence, Ilya joins them, makes contact with Shiban at Lion's Gate Spaceport. Shiban thinks there's something very odd about the unshielded VS, which he's been unsuccessfully targeting for many hours.

10. Basilio Fo awaits his fate. It appears to be execution at the hands of the Dark Vault Wardens but Xanthus of the Chosen and Andromeda make a play, which seems to convince Amon Tauromachian that Fo still needs to refine his anti-Astartes weapon to ensure the destruction of Chaos-corrupted Astartes if deployed. 

11. Abaddon learns from Argonis about the VS voids being dropped. He tries to summon the SoH but is mostly ignored by the other Captains. A few heed his call. One angrily confronts him about second-guessing Horus' decision...and is dealt with. The rest are ready to return with Abaddon to Lupercal's side aboard the VS.

[EverythingIsGreat]

Nice summary, above. It is imo intriguing that

 

Spoiler

The VS cannot be targeted/hit. Could it actually be elsewhere?

 

[TrevorLoLz]

14 minutes ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

Nice summary, above. It is imo intriguing that

 

  Hide contents

The VS cannot be targeted/hit. Could it actually be elsewhere?

 

I just took this as simply Warp shenanigans to allow the boarding action to occur.

 

Reasonably, of course every gun on Terra would target it if its shields were down, so this explains why it wasn’t burned out the sky.

[EverythingIsGreat]

9 minutes ago, TrevorLoLz said:

I just took this as simply Warp shenanigans to allow the boarding action to occur.

 

Reasonably, of course every gun on Terra would target it if its shields were down, so this explains why it wasn’t burned out the sky.

 

Agreed, that would be the conventional wisdom. Or,

 

Spoiler

What was boarded was not the VS

 

[Scribe]

I dont think its worth over thinking. It both is and isnt there. The system is saturated and falling into the Warp.

[EverythingIsGreat]

4 hours ago, Scribe said:

I dont think its worth over thinking. It both is and isnt there. The system is saturated and falling into the Warp.

 

Right. But

 

Spoiler

Shiban reports after receiving instructions not to fire on VS (2:xx)

 

“I copy,’ he says. ‘I will comply. But, Hegemon Control, you don’t understand. We have been targeting it for the last sixteen minutes. Its shields are deactivated. Our battery strength is at prime. Our target-plotting systems are damaged but functional. It should be dead already.’

‘Explain.’

‘I cannot, Hegemon Control. It’s not a matter of us not firing at it. We cannot hit it.”

 

Ilya Ravalion upon hearing Shiban's report

“Mistress Icaro!’ Ilya yells. ‘I need you to stop, listen and comprehend. Right now. It is not what it seems. There is something wrong.”

 

At Hegemon control (ch. 3:ii)

 

“They are not here,’ Sidozie replies. ‘Throne Room confirms this. Power level discharge was also confirmed as optimal on all bulk teleport platforms. But we are also unable to hard-fix Target Principal.’

‘But it’s right there. Shields down. Wide open.’

‘It appears to be, mistress. But, with repeated attempts, we cannot acquire solid target or location solutions on it.’

Icaro looks at him.

‘What the hell does that mean?’ she asks. ‘What the hell does eight-eight-eight signify?’

‘It means, mistress,’ he replies, ‘we have absolutely no idea where Anabasis assault went. We have no idea where He is.’"

 

The Imperials that know of "Anabasis" (the teleport assault on "Target Principal" i.e. VS) are almost certain this is a trap that nevertheless must be walked into. So "this is not what it seems" cannot mean "OMG we walked into a trap". The trap they didn't expect was the diversion/disappearance of the assault party to an unknown location.

 

Malcador on the Throne (3:xxxii)

 

“This poor, proud ship is a ship no longer. The four, the False Four, have made it a bridge to infinity, matter fused with unmatter, a pathway from sane reality to insane ether. The entire Solar Realm is subsiding into the warp, and the Vengeful Spirit is the focus, the primary pathway between realms.”

“The Spirit, once-proud ship, is but a ruin, no more than a derelict, decayed tomb, like the benighted space hulks we have sometimes found, drifting and lost between stars. The warp has eaten it away,

“Horus’ ship has not been spared the dissolving touch of Chaos it has carried to the Throneworld and unleashed.”

 

So the unexpected trap seems to be they somehow teleported somewhere in Warpspace. This is what Malcador on the Throne thinks Horus is allowing him to witness.

 

Horus (4:xvii)

 

“There is not an atom of the Vengeful Spirit that does not obey your merest thought. It is no longer a ship. It is a place of execution and apotheosis.

Your once-father, the tyrant, the liar, the false Emperor, thinks He has come to confront you on a warship in orbit. He has not. He has come to the inevitable centre of all things.”

 

So, where is the final confrontation taking place? The so-called VS according to Malcador's tortured mind s a chaos gate, not a ship. And Horus says that the location is something else entirely, unless he is thinking metaphorically (to himself, because like every character including the Emperor, Malcador and the Chaos Gods he seems delusional and needy).

 

[Scribe]

Right, and? Thats what I'm saying. Its there, and not, its in real space, and part of the warp, as is increasingly the whole system.

[MarineRaiderII]

I have now read it 3 times. One thing, would a fully intact company of companions with E have taken Horus? I mean they drew the E blood and some of the weapons backed into those Terminators looked pretty lethal.

[EverythingIsGreat]

Spoiler

It is not just the dislocation of space. As a plotline, diverting the boarding in time as well as in space opens up a myriad possibilities.

 

And

 

Spoiler

I'm glad the blood of the Emperor was brought up. A great plot arc by itself.

 

[Scribe]

59 minutes ago, MarineRaiderII said:

I have now read it 3 times. One thing, would a fully intact company of companions with E have taken Horus? I mean they drew the E blood and some of the weapons backed into those Terminators looked pretty lethal.

 

Dan's a bit weird with the power levels, even in this book. There's a lot of inconsistency and stuff that just doesnt make sense. It's like when a tactical squad almost killed Rob in Know no Fear, but then he wrote a super hero buddy novel and Night Haunter took on a whole planet.... not great.

[TrevorLoLz]

I think it's pretty clear that the Vengeful Spirit is meant to be a nexus between reality and the Warp at that point in time - I don't think this means the Vengeful Spirit is "elsewhere" (as in, another system something).  It's Warp shenanigans because Terra is basically becoming the centre of another Eye of Terror.

[AlexAbroad]

Not sure if this has been covered and confirmed/dismissed, but my reading of both why Horus dropped the shields and, to a lesser extent, where the Vengeful Spirit is that by dropping the shields Horus has enabled the VS to essentially enter/become one with/directly link to the interior of the palace, bypassing the aegis. So dropping the shields wasn’t just an act of hubris or desperation it was a cunning plan to get Horus and daemons into the palace itself. 
 

So the realisation from Imperial central command that it’s not what it seems is that it is both a trap for the emperor and an opening for a full on daemonic incursion into the heart of the palace itself. 

Sorry if this is actually painfully obvious and not worth discussing! I’m fairly new to BL discussions and theorising… 

[EverythingIsGreat]

All new pov is worth discussing when it is proposed in good faith. Obviously authors have constraints we don't, and certain plotlines that would be interesting may not be open to them.

 

Spoiler

The fact that Loken walks from the Palace directly into VS is related to the point made by AlexAbroad (even if it works only for Loken). This is however the opposite situation, using the Palace as a conduit to the VS. How did this happen? Interesting.

 

But I personally I think the point has always been to get the Emperor. Everything else crumbles once he's out of the way. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I didn't really think much about the custodes characterization while reading, but I just finished up another reread of First Heretic. Yikes. Not a flattering comparison with ADBs, who can make the Custodes feel aloof and hyper-focussed on their duty without making them robots. Like, they're actual characters, that can banter and have their own perspectives. This is broadly held up by wraight in Watchers and Vaults, and idk why it's not the same at the very end of the series. Also King-of-Ages is cringe.

 

I know I've complained about mischaracterization by abnett a lot, and people have said "but abnetts so good, I'm fine with him doing what he wants instead of McNeil bungling more things". It's not as simple as that. Yea, there's tons of bad writing in this enormous series. But it's easy to discard so much of it and focus on the actual really good ones, and the really good ones are still getting tossed aside. When a whole lot of people started acting weird in Lost and the Damned (zardu, pert, etc...) It was called out. Same thing in First Wall. And it's why there was criticism of Saturnine for the change in how established primarchs like dorn and the Khan talked. Imagine abnett writing gaunts ghosts like he did, up until salvations reach, but then wraight does the last two. They're well written, but every character talks and acts differently enough to rub the wrong way. That's basically what happened. 

 

 

[b1soul]

Yes, good point about how the link between the Hall of Leng and the VS could be two-way

 

If Loken can get in...what can get out?

[Arkangilos]

On 4/2/2023 at 8:53 PM, Scribe said:

Based on the book, both of these statements are true.

 

1. Emotions are the cause of suffering, as emotions are the root of the power of Chaos/The Warp.

2. Emotions are necessary, as they offer a route to solutions which pure rational logic, cannot arrive at.

 

Emotions in short, per this book, are inspiration. Look at all the navel gazing Abnett puts in these books, and what hes getting at to me is clear.

 

History -> Art -> Humanity -> Emotions -> Chaos

Maybe it's just the way the audio book delivered the lines (I don't like the voice they chose to give Sanguinius), but this made me appreciate Sanguinius' question to the Emperor far more.

[AlexAbroad]

9 hours ago, b1soul said:

Yes, good point about how the link between the Hall of Leng and the VS could be two-way

 

If Loken can get in...what can get out?

Yes! It was actually something in one of the Horus POVs that made me think ‘uh oh, there’s something more going on here.’ Then shortly after there was the moment when Abaddon decides to get back to the VS too that made me think ‘no! Horus is coming to you!’ Will be interesting to see how much of this is in my head!

 

I suppose if they could get their forces into the palace they could blow open the webway as well as take on the emperor. 
 

unfortunately I’m audiobook only at the moment so can’t easily flick through and find the passage. When I listen again I’ll keep my ears pricked for the reference though.