Tactica Phoenix Lords

[Karhedron]

I rarely run named Characters in my Craftworld lists, preferring to run a basic Footseer and Jetarch. However the increased lethality of 9th edition combined with the more restricted list of CORE units means I find they tend to underperform compared to the competition. As a result I have been taking a closer look at the Phoenix Lords. On paper, they seem to have what I am looking for. They are all reasonably hitty (with some variation) and pretty tough with 2+/4++ saves and the 3-wound per phase cap means they are not going to be one-shotted, even if they have to go toe-to-toe with someone like Angron. They also buff their own Aspect so are worth building around. With that in mind, I would like to get peoples' experiences of running Phoenix Lords please. Here are my own thoughts below.

 

Asurmen looks solid with a 3++ making him particularly durable and his sword hitting at 3-damage with additional MWs on a 6. Giving Dire Avengers ObjSec is nice but I am not convinced they bring enough over Guardians to build a list around.

 

Baharroth looks fairly plain. I am sure there are ways to make fun use of Cloudstrider for Secondaries but Hawks can already do that for cheaper without using up an HQ slot.

 

Fuegen comes with particularly chonky stats and gets even chonkier once wounded. His ability to reroll 1s to-Wound against vehicles and Monsters is nice.

 

Jain Zarr. Advance and Charge, turning off Overwatch and enemies hitting her at -1 are a nice set of abilities. However she is not an especially heavy hitter although the sweep attack on her spear is nice for cutting through chaff.

 

Karandras. Another solid contender with a power fist, exploding 6s, double attacks and also gets MWs. He can infiltrate along with his Scorpions too. This guy looks promising.

 

Maugan Ra just seems a bit meh. His wargear and attacks suggest he wants to get in and contest the middle ground while his Aspect are overpriced and want to stand back. Not sold on this guy.

 

To me, Asurmen and Karandras look really good while Jain Zarr and Fuegen also seem promising. I am not sold though on Baharoth or Maugan Ra. Does anyone have any thoughts? Are there any factors I have not considered or tricks I have missed?

[Magos Takatus]

I wish I could add some meaningful discussion here but I have not fielded a Phoenix Lord since 2nd edition so the best I can do is watch with curiosity. I imagine Jain Zarr's ability to debuff enemy melee attacks is helpful. I watched a video a few months back saying she has less synergy with Banshees than with other melee units because Banshees already have an effect on enemy units, whereas if they are used in combination with other units like Scorpions or Wraithblades it gives them an advantage over an opponent forced to fight last. This had not occurred to me. This is probably why it's taking me such a long time to relearn the rules.

 

I am currently building the core of my army so it will take some time to get round to building and painting special characters. Hopefully by then there will be a bit more constructive discussion here.

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Asurmen looks solid with a 3++ making him particularly durable and his sword hitting at 3-damage with additional MWs on a 6. Giving Dire Avengers ObjSec is nice but I am not convinced they bring enough over Guardians to build a list around.

I'd say Asurmen, like most Pheonix Lords, is solid enough on his own. He, like they all do, gives himself ObSec, so having a phase-cap 3++ model denying objectives and being able to take on elite infantry (eg, Terminators) pretty well is good without bringing Dire Avengers (and DAs have their own reasons to be brought, regardless of Asurmen).

 

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Baharroth looks fairly plain. I am sure there are ways to make fun use of Cloudstrider for Secondaries but Hawks can already do that for cheaper without using up an HQ slot.

I think the main reason Baharroth is so strong is that he can do damage to wide variety of targets and still be completely safe (as well as fitting in spaces that even a 5-strong unit of Hawks might struggle with).

 

He's got a solid gun (4x 6/-2/2, with autowounding 6s) which can kill off a couple of MEQs a turn/provide chip damage in against tougher things; his melee is good (6x 5/-3/2, with exploding 6s) and Cloudstrider lets him move up, shoot, then charge in and then vanish before your opponent can do anything. He's honestly kind of broken because there is very little the opponent can do, he's non-interactive.

 

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Fuegen comes with particularly chonky stats and gets even chonkier once wounded. His ability to reroll 1s to-Wound against vehicles and Monsters is nice.

Fuegan is, in my opinion, the least attractive PL: he does nothing that Fire Dragons can't do (ie, he kills big things) but with lower volume of fire (which brings redundancy) and his melee is fine, but hardly impressive.

 

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Jain Zarr. Advance and Charge, turning off Overwatch and enemies hitting her at -1 are a nice set of abilities. However she is not an especially heavy hitter although the sweep attack on her spear is nice for cutting through chaff.

JZ seems like a very good tech piece, though I don't think she's as killy as it feels like she should be. The Fight Last ability, as well as her mobility, is very strong, and being as resilient as she is (phase cap, -1 to be hit, Fight Last) makes me think she's best used as a kind of snare piece - tagging shooty/hybrid units in melee and bog them down for a long while as she grinds them down over time.

 

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Karandras. Another solid contender with a power fist, exploding 6s, double attacks and also gets MWs. He can infiltrate along with his Scorpions too. This guy looks promising.

Karandras seems amazing to me; he's simple, but he hits hard with his Scorpion's Bite Mandiblasters. If he's going in on MEQs, TEQs or even just chaff GEQ-type infantry, he can do loads of damage with 12 attacks (that explode) with 6s to wound doing 2 MW each. He seems like a fantastic pick if you want to use the Wrath of Khaine Secondary Objective, as he's a strong melee unit, and we can bring strong Aspect shooting from Dire Avengers and even Shining Spears.

 

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Maugan Ra just seems a bit meh. His wargear and attacks suggest he wants to get in and contest the middle ground while his Aspect are overpriced and want to stand back. Not sold on this guy.

I agree that his Aspect is overpriced and wants to sit back, and I think the disconnect is that he shouldn't be hanging out with them. He only gives them Leadership and ObSec - who cares? Ditch the Reapers and Maugan Ra can just be a midfield bruiser. He's got decent shooting, and can be boosted by Strands of Fate, and his melee is about equal to most PLs.

 

In my opinion, the best PLs are:

1. Baharroth, because he's got decent damage output while being able to be anywhere you need him
2. Karandras, because he's simply so killy while being tough like all PLs
3. Jain Zar, because she has some good control rules that other PLs don't bring
4. Asurmen, because he's tough and got good melee so can function as a melee roadblock
5. Maugan Ra, because he's just kind of solid in all categories, but shines in none
6. Fuegan, because he just doesn't bring enough unique tools to justify his inclusion