How many shots is a Blast worth?

[Valkyrion]

Ignoring for now the BS issues of firing blast weapons, when Hammer of Mathing how would you compare Blast weapons to multiple shot weapons?

For example, Hellfire Cannonade (Heavy 6) vs Executioner Plasma Destroyer (large blast). 

 

I'm sure the answer is 'it depends', but I just wondered if there was a consensus of more shots being better than blasts, or vice versa when talking generally.

[MARK0SIAN]

I generally consider 3 hits to be an ok result from a small blast, not great but ok. So translating that into shots would probably be four shots as one would likely miss. 
 

For a large blast maybe six feels right. 
 

There’s a lot more to it though, for example, lots of stuff gets to reroll saves against blast weapons which they don’t against direct shots, making hits from blast weapons less good than an equal number of hits from direct shots. 
 

Inversely, weapons that can shoot without line of sight are (I think) universally blast weapons so that gives them an advantage.

[Halandaar]

If your opponent has their models as far apart as coherency will allow then you may only get 4 hits from even a large blast. So anything above that probably feels a bit more reliable to me (if we're discounting BS' affect on firing Blasts then I guess we have to do the same for direct shots)

 

But as @MARK0SIAN says, there are a lot of variables.

 

So the answer is.. it depends 

[MichaelCarmine]

In general i would preferr multiple small blasts ofer one large blast. The amount of hits is often the same, but you also have a chance to multiwound small units - where one large blast can get a max of one wound/model hit (considering the Weapon isn't brutal), multiple small blasts can generate multiple wounds/model hit.

 

Only exception is multiple Barrage shots/weapons IMO. 

Since they are placed differently than multiple heavy blast shots/weapons, i preferr large barrage blasts.

 

[Starlight_Wolf]

From limited experience as across 40k (and more recently 30k) I've tended to opt for multiple shot weapons as it's one less variable to consider in games. Add in the heavy rule in 30k (not sure how prevalent it is as I'm just starting out) and it's another point in mutlishots favour, not saying blasts are bad, but unless you're facing a hordes style list I don't see the benefit of a single large shot to several focussed ones (in the context of general discussion).

 

I always considered Small Blasts as ~4 hits when comparing options, though largely my only options when considering them were Vindicators and Frag Missiles (and occasionally plasma cannons) as they were the only weapons that ever used the blast templates.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It completely depends on spacing. A small blast can end up hitting 1 model, but can also hit up to 7 32mm if they're all clumped in base. A large blast can usually hit a minimum of 2, but can also cover 17 32mm bases if they're all in base to base. Skirmishers obviously lower the minimum to 1 since their coherency just out distances the blast marker. 

 

I think with common 1"-1½" spacing from casually playing you can expect 3 and 5 hits from small and large blasts respectively. So you'll usually get more hits from a large blast compared to a 6 shot weapon, but it's offset by Heavy giving rerolls to armour against them.

 

So it really completely depends on both the comparable rate of fire and blast weapons, and the target unit. A deredeos hellfire actually jumps up in str to 8 on the overcharge, so it has a bit more value to go blast. But I'd say the normal sustained fire is better than the executioner blast due to heavy not kicking in.

[Marshal Mittens]

2-3 for small blast, 4-6 for large Blast or Flamer Template, is my go to. 

[Xenith]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:12 PM, Valkyrion said:

For example, Hellfire Cannonade (Heavy 6) vs Executioner Plasma Destroyer (large blast)

 

Don't forget that there's a lot more to compare with these weapons than just the number of shots, like the large range on the executioner. That can still get hits at 60" while the Hellfire will not. Either way, it depends how savvy your opponents are - if they clump, blast will be more effective, if they spread out, multiple shots will be more effective. 

 

Either way, you're taking the hellfire for the S8 Breaching blast and not the 6 S7 shots, I think, so the comparison is a bit academic. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Xenith