People giving up on Blade Guard?

[templargdt]

I watch the videos by Implausible Nature and I've noticed they never seem to mention blade guard.  Have people stopped using them?  I've had good success running 5 with Sigismund's Seal.  Just curious what other thoughts are.  

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They are still a great unit, especially with the SoJ.

[redmapa]

I think it's just the fact that SB are now a more interesting choice than they were before with cheaper impulsors, so it's a new thing everyone wanted to use that now it's viable so BVG got pushed aside in some lists in exchange for SB and Terminator blocks, all 3 units are great it's just a matter of attention and opportunity cost.

[Tokugawa]

Terminators largely partially replaced them, with the new points cost. Free plasma pistols don't improve BGV much. 

 

1 unit could be useful since super sword sergeant is interesting.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Four to five in an Impulsor with the Emperor’s Champion does some work.

[Khornestar]

I think Implausible Nature just didn’t have a lot to say about them. Bladeguard vets’ points stayed the same while everything else got shaken up with points reductions/free wargear.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Khornestar

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I still rate them since 3W, 2+ and 4++. Throw in the SoJ and they can shred. Right now I’m experimenting with four Sword Brethren - thunderhammer, lightning claws, SoJ and power sword. They ride in an Impulsor to bolster the Emperor’s Champion.

 

I didn’t agree with everything stated in the podcast - for example, a Captain with a rifle and witch seeker rounds is very situational - to me the Emperor’s Champion is a much better choice. Also Apothecaries with selfless healer are a super strong choice.
 

Edited March 22, 2023 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Tokugawa]

Helbrecht has one of the best named chapter master rules, and the best model(don't need to add "one of").  No reason to take nameless captain besides "personal flavor".

[Urkh]

I feel like they do mention BGV in the videos I've been watching, but it has more been "vs swordbrethren". Aka, when to choose each, do you need transport for them (yes on SB), and the difference in their roles during the game.

[Mike8404]

Implausible Nature didn't mention them, so people aren't looking their way.  Personally, I don't take much stock in what Implausible Nature says because I think some of what they say is situational, like the Captain with witchseeker bolts.

 

SB and BGV have different roles, but if I had to choose, I'd take BGV 9/10 times just because they have more wounds, a better save, and better weapons.  You're paying more in points, but they're better at fighting off MEQ units than SB are. Bi usually take 15 in a Spearhead list with Helbrecht, a Primaris Chaplain, the EC, a Judicar, and a Primaris Apothecary all in Impulsors with Gladiators, or a few Brutalis now.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Mike8404

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Witch seeker bolts… 

[Rustican]

Found this recent comparison of blade guard VS sword brethren. SB seem to come out on top.

 

 

[Mike8404]

12 hours ago, Rustican said:

Found this recent comparison of blade guard VS sword brethren. SB seem to come out on top.

 

 

He mentions Sword Bros have better shooting, but aside from their flame pistols, they have the same weapons aside from the volkite BGV have, which is straight better.

 

Now, I wouldn't say they come out on top, that is a bit of a stretch because if you're running Sword Bros, you're taking power swords, maybe a TH on one.  But math wise, you're not taking a maul because those are pretty bad, the axe is ok, but you're really going to be wanting swords across the board in your Sword Bros because they're the best weapon the squad can take in numbers.  The video also mentions taking them with the 5++ vow, which is really limiting if you're just wanting them to make it through a round of shooting.

 

BGV have an extra wound, a 4+ save, a D2 Weapon, and if you don't want to footslog them, they can be squaded into an Impulsor with character support easier than SB's can because you're ideally taking them in squads of 10.

 

Point for point, BGV are a much better unit.  They're tougher, harder hitting, and fill a role Primaris lack.  At the end of the day, SB's are just Veteran Intercessors with extra weapons.  They still fall to a stiff wind.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Mike8404

[Marshal Laeroth]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:07 AM, Mike8404 said:

Implausible Nature didn't mention them, so people aren't looking their way.  Personally, I don't take much stock in what Implausible Nature says because I think some of what they say is situational, like the Captain with witchseeker bolts.

 

SB and BGV have different roles, but if I had to choose, I'd take BGV 9/10 times just because they have more wounds, a better save, and better weapons.  You're paying more in points, but they're better at fighting off MEQ units than SB are. Bi usually take 15 in a Spearhead list with Helbrecht, a Primaris Chaplain, the EC, a Judicar, and a Primaris Apothecary all in Impulsors with Gladiators, or a few Brutalis now.

 

We welcome differing opinions on things, certainly.  That's what helps make everyone *hopefully* open their perspective to other things.  We're not perfect, but neither is any other player that uses the Black Templars.  But what I do have is 23 years of experience with the Black Templars, playing well over a thousand high-end non-casual, competitive games against nation-wide opponents in that time span.  I know the army inside and out -- it's often why list archetypes I have put out and used over the years becomes the BT meta.  I understand how to make the army tick.  But with that being said, I fully recognize that there are players who are better at playing the game than I am.  I am not the ultimate answer when it comes to BT -- far from it.

 

But for clarification -- The top character's video has some situational selections like the Captain with Witchseeker Bolts because there aren't very many competitive choices in the slot that would make for an interesting video that aren't already widely known, so you have to think outside the box.

 

As for BGV, we didn't talk about them because there wasn't a reason to.  No additional buffs (a free pistol isn't one) makes it hard to talk about an unit that we've already delved into previously, unless comparing it to something else.  PSB have a different role than BGV, so its not one-to-one there. We compare them, because so many people do -- but it's clear they are not the same and treating them the same will only be a futile exercise and a tragic error in list building.  Look at the stats and find the lists containing BGV that are finishing high in tournaments.  Then find the lists that use PSB.  You will notice something interesting.

 

However, Assault Terminators have the exact same role as BGV and are clearly superior, so that's why we haven't been talking about them.  If you don't want to use Assault Terminators, BGV are perfectly serviceable...but they are not the most efficient, competitive choice.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Marshal Laeroth