Dawn of Fire is a Bad Series

[cheywood]

 

5 hours ago, OpossumStrong said:

Not sure then where from i got the number, i was thinking from the first preview maybe, but then I've read so much about it when they announce it,

So probably it's some other unreliable source.

 

About other books like Twice Dead King, i meant that they are spending resources and writers time to write DoF, when they could write some standalone books.

 

It's just most of the good books I've read in the last years are non-series books .

DoF is averaging about a book a year. Haley’s presumably somewhat busy because of his role, but in general I don’t think its existence has much of an impact on BL’s ability to commission standalone works from other authors.

[phandaal]

For someone like me who has not yet read the latest novel, would someone mind explaining what Messinius does in Iron Kingdom?

[Orange Knight]

I am enjoying the Iron Kingdom so far.

 

The only book that is truly bad in this series was the Wolf Time. It not only made all of the Space Wolves look like incompetent, insecure braggards, but it had no plot or characters of note. 

 

I agree that the books feel a bit meandering however. Sometimes it's hard to tell exactly where it's all going or why. I'm enjoying being introduced to a variety of planets that are all struggling in their own way, their cultures and characters, etc.

 

I've also grown attached to some of the recurring characters, but I wish there were less of them in number. You might not see a character you're interested for a whole book or 3! They cycle between key figures with each book.

 

Make no mistake however - the Dark Imperium trilogy is FAR superior to this series. It has standout moments in every novel, is dripping in insights and lore about key subjects and events, it focuses on more significant characters, and it tells a compelling and complete story that leaves a lot open for future plots.

 

So far I think this series is better than the War of the Beast, and overall the novels are better than some of the Horus Heresy sludge, but at the same time none of them come close to the few HH novels that are actually great. I think the Dark Imperium trilogy set the bar too high, alongside the few novels that take place after - such as the Great Work. Between DI and the Great Work, a lot of big events transpired and the timeline was advanced significantly. This series feels more static and safe by comparison.

[OpossumStrong]

Quote

but in general I don’t think its existence has much of an impact on BL’s ability to commission standalone works from other authors.

 

Probably you're right, it's just i feel like there is less good readings in the past years and I'm trying to find a reason why so.

 

Or is it just me getting older and being grumpy.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by OpossumStrong

[caladancid]

8 minutes ago, phandaal said:

For someone like me who has not yet read the latest novel, would someone mind explaining what Messinius does in Iron Kingdom?

 

That is what I am confused about, and why I asked. He appears in the Dramatis Personae, and then not again until close to the end (300ish pages) and then not until the very end. And all he does is essentially talk over long distance communication to say "you handle this problem or I will with this Legion I am assembling."

 

So I don't want it to come off like I am calling someone out for not reading the novel, I am not saying that. I am just not understanding how that is developing the series and/or character at all.

[cheywood]

6 minutes ago, OpossumStrong said:

 

Probably you're right, it's just i feel like there is less good readings in the past years and I'm trying to find a reason why so.

 

Or is it just me getting older and being grumpy.

 

For me BL’s as good as it ever was. Most of the established/beloved authors are writing regularly and the new authors generally seem to be very competent. I do think it’s easier to get tired of BL’s style the more 40k and AOS you read though. I took a break and read more non-BL stuff last year and it definitely left me reinvigorated.

[Orange Knight]

1 minute ago, cheywood said:

For me BL’s as good as it ever was. Most of the established/beloved authors are writing regularly and the new authors generally seem to be very competent. I do think it’s easier to get tired of BL’s style the more 40k and AOS you read though. I took a break and read more non-BL stuff last year and it definitely left me reinvigorated.

 

Yes this is how I feel. If BL and 40k is all you read then you will become very fatigued. I took a break and went through the Potter series, Dune, The Stand and a few other lighter novels.

 

I think BL stuff is generally strong now. Historically some novels were real duds, but this is a lot less frequent now. The Vaults of Terra trilogy, for example, is simply some of the best 40k fiction ever put to paper.

[RedFurioso]

8 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

You are again right I for one wanted to read about chapters and primaris interacting and interconnecting YEARS AGO. Back when primaris came out and it was fresh and interesting and people were talking about it and wondering how it would happen. But its been practically 2 editions,  things have moved on.

Well, DoF literally came out with the launch of 9th edition. That was 3 years ago, but surely BL should not cancel this series because 3 years passed? Besides, 8th edition launched with Dark Imperium trilogy, which was essential Primaris trilogy for its time.

I don't think these books were released too late, because to this day Primaris is kind of fresh and controversial idea with ever-expanding lore.
After all, Horus Heresy series was released during 4th edition (when there were none HH tabletop games at all) and succesfully passed through launch, death and rebirth of Horus Heresy tabletop system.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

The first book in the series was good for me, but everyone after that made me care less, the reason why I love the HH and Siege series is because the excitement in those books, whats going to happen next (even though we know the ruff ending), these books just leave me feeling bored and not caring for the actual plot.

[Orange Knight]

33 minutes ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

The first book in the series was good for me, but everyone after that made me care less, the reason why I love the HH and Siege series is because the excitement in those books, whats going to happen next (even though we know the ruff ending), these books just leave me feeling bored and not caring for the actual plot.

 

I think the HH series is pretty bad for the most part - You can count on two hands the number of books that are actually good, from a series of 80 or more?

The Siege books have been better, however.

I think a lot of people are attached to the big names of the setting, so on a superficial level it's exciting to read about them in the HH setting, but unfortunately it has done real damage to some characters that had near mythical status prior.

 

One saving Grace of Dawn of fire is that it's only going to be a 10 books series. I'm wondering if GW can speed up the releases because the momentum is starting to flounder, and the setting seems to be advancing outside of the books. 

 

If the Lion is indeed returning, then I want to read novels that feature him as a character. Dawn of Fire is not going to, so the most exciting developments aren't even going to be a part of the series.

[Matcap86]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

 

One saving Grace of Dawn of fire is that it's only going to be a 10 books series. I'm wondering if GW can speed up the releases because the momentum is starting to flounder, and the setting seems to be advancing outside of the books. 

 

 

I mean they claimed Siege of Terra was also going to be 8 books... Now we're at at least 9 and three novellas. So, don't jinx it 

[OpossumStrong]

9 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

One saving Grace of Dawn of fire is that it's only going to be a 10 books series

Where is the number from? I cant recall where I heard it as well, i think it was the live preview, I might be wrong, but they said that it will follow up into dark imperium and I assumed with the trilogy it will be 13 books, but now I can't find this live preview to prove me I'm wrong and I'm still having this number in my head 

Edited March 2, 2023 by OpossumStrong

[Orange Knight]

2 hours ago, OpossumStrong said:

Where is the number from? I cant recall where I heard it as well, i think it was the live preview, I might be wrong, vut they said that it will follow up into dark imperium and I assumed with the trilogy it will be 13 books, but now I can't find this live preview to prove me I'm wrong and I'm still having this number in my head 

 

I don't recall exactly where it was stated, but it was a GW announcement or video.

[System Sound]

THe only place where there was any number mentioned was the Amazon listing for Avenging Son, where it stated that its book 1 out of 9.

[OpossumStrong]

45 minutes ago, System Sound said:

THe only place where there was any number mentioned was the Amazon listing for Avenging Son, where it stated that its book 1 out of 9.

I can't find the BIG preview video with dawn of fire announce in there, maybe it was there, not 100% sure, again maybe it was something i read or heard from someone outside of official information.

[theSpirea]

WH Community article also stated it would be 9 books but was since edited so the only source there is at this point is various retailers listings of the Avenging Son stating book 1 out of 9.

It wasn't only Amazon and retailers don't write the synopsis, they get it directly from GW. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

4 hours ago, theSpirea said:

WH Community article also stated it would be 9 books but was since edited so the only source there is at this point is various retailers listings of the Avenging Son stating book 1 out of 9.

It wasn't only Amazon and retailers don't write the synopsis, they get it directly from GW. 

 

That isn't true. There was a very active thread on this forum doing live play-by-play on the announcement and that article. Nothing was mentioned about a nine-book series until well after the article was out when Roomsky specifically referred to the Amazon listing.

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Lord Nord

[RedFurioso]

It the Avenging Son launch interview with the Track of Words Guy Haley said "I can say nothing! I’m sure the line up will be announced in due course, as will the number of books and all that". There was no more information, though.

https://www.trackofwords.com/2020/08/02/rapid-fire-guy-haley-talks-avenging-son/

 

But the number "nine" was mentioned even then, look at this post from BL writer Marc Collins, for example:

 

 

[Orange Knight]

So book 5 is actually pretty good! I have not yet finished it but it has some well done scenes involving different Imperial Factions at odds, and some likable characters.

 

I'd put it in the top 3, behind Avenging Son and Gate of Bones I think.

[Bobss]

Not to repeat what others have already said, but wasn't Guy Haley was supposed to be some kind of supervisor for this whole project and the whole thing launched with the distinct implication of having learnt the mistakes of the Horus Heresy and Beast Arises series? Now you've got other people running off doing their own thing again with too many characters and too many plot threads. imo this was supposed to be a flagship series not necessarily replacing the Horus Heresy but at least filling the void and trying to have a bit more substance than your average model-selling series. Just look at those lovely covers and handing the torch to newer authors... sort of. Feels a little like The Primarchs 2.0 in that respect

 

Another thing someone else brought up either in this thread or elsewhere, which I feel is very relevant, is how the 40k zeitgeist has moved on. The Indomitus Crusade might not be ancient history but it's come and gone and there are other wars raging at the forefront of 40k now

Edited March 5, 2023 by Bobss

[Tolmeus]

Following this sentiment, in accordance to the 'Arcs of Omen' there should now be novels regarding either the new offence or focussed on the Indomitus Crusade reaching Imperium Nihilus. To be fair, yes, 'Angron - The Red Angel' deals exactly in that scenario but it is yet the only novel to do so. I am still interested in the 'Dawn of Fire' series, but I agree that it is frustrating that the majority of new Black Library books cover stories that happen a few years before the current events of 40k.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Tolmeus

[Moonreaper666]

One big plus to DoF is that it shows Daemonic Ascension in the current day of 40k by a basically nobody through hard work

[Felix Antipodes]

The problem with BL keeping up with the latest W40K shenanigans is the time it takes to punch out a novel.  While there is a closer rapport between the design studio writing team and the BL authors (or so we are led to believe) BL will always be behind.

 

design team “Let’s do a new arc focusing on boarding teams”

BL “great, we will get an author on a tie in.  It will take approx 12 months to write.  When’s the release?”

design team “in three months”

 

In a perfect world BL would have a book (or a half dozen e shorts) set within say, Arcs of Omen, out somewhere between books one and four or an adaption of the arc following the last one.  As it stands we just have to settle for fill ins after the event like DoF has now become.  And if that’s the case I’d rather they did the Badab War or the Abysmal Crusade, etc.  Not that that will happen now.  No Primaris in those days to plug 

[2PlusEasy]

Pretty much what Felix Antipodes said above me: Black Library can't keep up, or GW aren't coordinating their teams to do so.

 

Then again, alot has happened but little has changed after the big shakeup of 2017. Having Black Library fill the gaps at a later time might actually be a business model in itself.

[theSpirea]

I mean, Josh Reynolds finished Soul Wars in what 6 weeks? That book is 150K words and still a decent read for what it is. Unlike Thorpe's Indomitus...

 

But yeah, GW and BL coordination isn't the best. The main reason I rarely follow GW/TT development