Rumour 50-page "scaramouche" 10ed leak transcript

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It's so hard to go back to IGOUGO after playing games regularly that don't have it.

[Aramis K]

Maybe some of this is about 11th edition. 10th must have been done for a while. And big changes need loads of testing. So perhaps we're hearing about big ideas being tried out for 11th, even while we're getting plot and mini leaks related to 10th release.

[phandaal]

18 minutes ago, Aramis K said:

Maybe some of this is about 11th edition. 10th must have been done for a while. And big changes need loads of testing. So perhaps we're hearing about big ideas being tried out for 11th, even while we're getting plot and mini leaks related to 10th release.

 

Nah, just fake as hell.

[Mandragola]

22 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

It's so hard to go back to IGOUGO after playing games regularly that don't have it.

This sums it up really well for me. Once you've played a few games of Titanicus, Kill Team, Bolt Action or actually almost anything now out there that isn't made by GW, IGOUGO looks awful. And for me it's never been worse than it is now because of the extremely high levels of lethality in 9th. It's very possible to get to your turn and find your army all but destroyed and boards need to be almost covered in LoS-blocking terrain to cope - which in turn skews lists to adapt to a game where you can't see anything.

 

But fixing this is more a case of wishlisting than this particular rumour. I didn't get as far as the IGOUGO bit and I've no idea if it's real.  I do want GW to provide a ruleset I enjoy for 40k, so I can have fun pushing my little plastic spacemen around, but in the meantime I've got plastic titans and army men I can play with.

[Lord_Valorion]

I pray to all the gods that this is fake. If not, it will be the death of 40k in my area. 

[Kastor Krieg]

39 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

This sums it up really well for me. Once you've played a few games of Titanicus, Kill Team, Bolt Action or actually almost anything now out there that isn't made by GW, IGOUGO looks awful. And for me it's never been worse than it is now because of the extremely high levels of lethality in 9th. It's very possible to get to your turn and find your army all but destroyed and boards need to be almost covered in LoS-blocking terrain to cope - which in turn skews lists to adapt to a game where you can't see anything.

 

But fixing this is more a case of wishlisting than this particular rumour. I didn't get as far as the IGOUGO bit and I've no idea if it's real.  I do want GW to provide a ruleset I enjoy for 40k, so I can have fun pushing my little plastic spacemen around, but in the meantime I've got plastic titans and army men I can play with.

Yeah, alpha strike is one of the worst things about 40k, has been historically. The fact that they're still not mitigating it... Yeah.

[Mogger351]

Apparently the gent who leaked the chaos marine stuff says the document does have some merits and is based in reality but has been mangled by a translator possibly.

[phandaal]

38 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Apparently the gent who leaked the chaos marine stuff says the document does have some merits and is based in reality but has been mangled by a translator possibly.

 

Throw enough :cuss: at the wall and some of it is bound to stick.

[TheMawr]

53 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Apparently the gent who leaked the chaos marine stuff says the document does have some merits and is based in reality but has been mangled by a translator possibly.

 

People claim to be previous anonymous leakers all the time though..

 

edit : Ah apparently its not about someone who claims to be the one big leak from 1.5 year ago (wich many did claim to be with fake rumors). But someone known who shared codex info.

Edited March 3, 2023 by TheMawr

[jaspiongitburna]

I remember the pancake edition that was leaked was that 6th or 7th edition?  There was also a leaker in the days of Warseer (or was it Portent?)  who came up with a load of stuff and was considered a trusted source (but not on the same level as Harry or Hastings) I remember him confessing one day that he'd just made everything up and was over the moon when he was partially right.

 

 

Anyway, long story short, I never believe these kind of extensive leaks anymore

[Mandragola]

5 minutes ago, jaspiongitburna said:

I remember the pancake edition that was leaked was that 6th or 7th edition?  There was also a leaker in the days of Warseer (or was it Portent?)  who came up with a load of stuff and was considered a trusted source (but not on the same level as Harry or Hastings) I remember him confessing one day that he'd just made everything up and was over the moon when he was partially right.

 

 

Anyway, long story short, I never believe these kind of extensive leaks anymore

Sometimes they're real and sometimes fake. Both kinds of rumours continue to appear. To me it always seems like assuming a rumour is fake is the easier option. I'm not about to rush out and start playtesting these rules (even if they were complete) but at this point none of us know anything for sure.

 

An issue with this leak is that it's traceable. If true, it's somebody (likely a playtester) trying to get cheap terrain in exchange for rumours. GW could probably find out which of their playtesters uses that terrain.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

We talked about this on my stream, last night, the ending was absolutely amazing. Game of Thrones has nothing on this.

[Orange Knight]

Lol what happened at the end?

[Lexington]

17 minutes ago, jaspiongitburna said:

I remember the pancake edition that was leaked was that 6th or 7th edition? 

 

Yeah, "Pancake Edition" arrived during the run-up to 6th after 5th had kinda fallen down the well. It incorporated a lot of existing rumors, but then also had a lot of interesting development ideas of its own. The same Warseer account who had originally posted it eventually said it was a fake, and that seemed to be the end for most people. Personally, I've always suspected it was an early attempt at 6th that got scrapped - it just seemed like a whole lot of well-developed game design and layout work for it to just be a dumb prank, and, IIRC, it managed to predict a few things from 6th Ed that hadn't been in the rumor mill at all.

 

Getting kind of the same feeling here. This stuff coordinates at weird angles with other rumors in a way that's starting to feel less random and more like a convergence. Of course, there's some chance this is just a coordinated fake-out, either by pranksters or by a much more community-oriented GW. I dunno, though, starting to get the feeling that we're seeing the shape of 10th coming into focus. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

(BTW, if anyone still has the Pancake Edition document sitting around somewhere, I'd appreciate a PM with a link - was trying to Google it up last night out of curiosity, and it seems to have left the easily searchable parts of the internet)

[KnightofSigismund]

37 minutes ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

We talked about this on my stream, last night, the ending was absolutely amazing. Game of Thrones has nothing on this.

Is it the one with end and the death spoilers cause I’m afraid of ruining the book lol

[Mjasghar]

So they spent 2 hours or more chatting about something to get a €240 job and then argued over a €40 discount? Ummm

and then keeping the names of relatives and recent corona virus infection makes this massively traceable since the French branch can’t be that massive 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Mjasghar

[Starlight_Wolf]

Had a very brief skim over it the point where I lost a sense of it being credible was the 4-5 traits on a company captain bolter compared to 2 on a henchman bolter, that sounds like comparing a relic to standard bolter. Add in the various extra complexity (see the damage/glancing saves section) and honestly I don't see it, or at least I really hope it's not accurate. You want a game to be intricate enough to be engaging, but not so nitty gritty that we go back to the days of 4 chunky rule books (Main, Codex, supplement A and B, circa late 6th I think? Whenever super heavies and fortifications became a new thing and had their own books for all the rules that came with) to play a regular game.

 

An index style refresh would likely help squash down the amount of rules you need to know, just it's concerning that after doing this 2 editions after implementing such a change (I apologise for my ignorance as I came in late 5th, I understand there was a seismic change 2nd to 3rd, so I'm not aware how this would compare to that and the aforementioned 7th to 8th index squash).

Honestly, if it makes it easier to keep on top of it all and streamlines some of the options, that would be a good move for the newbies (less rules to learn), casuals (less rules to know) and tourney players (both previous combined) 

[TheMawr]

7 minutes ago, Mjasghar said:

So they spent 2 hours or more chatting about something to get a €240 job and then argued over a €40 discount? Ummm

and then keeping the names of relatives and recent corona virus infection makes this massively traceable since the French branch can’t be that massive 

 

As a freelance creative I can tell you... none of that part of the communication is strange, trades for discounts happen.. alot, in both directions... it actually happens in all industries ( some western corruption scandals are exactly about those things.) and yes.. they are two people who know each other and worked together before, its obvious from the conversation and the "leaker"(fake or not) was under the impression this conversation was in confidence. ( this too happens a lot.. people telling each other things in confidence.)

 

The terrainmaker breached that confidence by sharing this with friends (who he trusted do not break his confidence.. but someone eventually did, if this is real, then probably a third or fourth hand who got this in confidence.. this happens a lot, its how leaks and rumors are born in all industries in the first place.)

 

Not saying its proof of this being real, but it definitely isnt proof this is fake. (including the drama in the end, you wont believe the drama sometimes going on between clients and contracters at times.)

[Vanger]

If this isn't some ChatGPT generated stuff, then it's a lot of effort for stirring the pot :D

 

Says they are simplifying and streamlining 40K, and then only mentions rules changes that would complicate the game. There are elements of rules from DnD, Dropzone, Kill Team, AoS and some forgotten stuff from the beginning of 9th edition (remember the terrain datacards and the expansion with custom placed terrain?).

Sure, there are a couple of neat ideas in there, but it's totally unrealistic to be a 40K game.

[jaspiongitburna]

51 minutes ago, Lexington said:

 

Yeah, "Pancake Edition" arrived during the run-up to 6th after 5th had kinda fallen down the well.  

 

Getting kind of the same feeling here. This stuff coordinates at weird angles with other rumors in a way that's starting to feel less random

 

 

I seem to remember at some point relatively recently (a couple of years) Robin Cruddace being quoted in an article (so it was probably either a white dwarf, a Facebook or a Warhammer community post...) about the development process of whichever edition it was and how they'd had a whole ruleset which was rejected because it didn't feel 40k enough, and then made some vague hints about wether they'd see the light of day in future. It could have become Killteam 2.0 I suppose.

[Noserenda]

Yeah they did a whole lot of rules development in the run up to 6th (Or whenever pancake was) like multiple re-writes to try exciting new things and then settled on 6th. I guess some of that eventually saw the light in 8th obviously.

 

[tzeentch9]

4 hours ago, Mandragola said:

This sums it up really well for me. Once you've played a few games of Titanicus, Kill Team, Bolt Action or actually almost anything now out there that isn't made by GW, IGOUGO looks awful. And for me it's never been worse than it is now because of the extremely high levels of lethality in 9th. It's very possible to get to your turn and find your army all but destroyed and boards need to be almost covered in LoS-blocking terrain to cope - which in turn skews lists to adapt to a game where you can't see anything.

 

But fixing this is more a case of wishlisting than this particular rumour. I didn't get as far as the IGOUGO bit and I've no idea if it's real.  I do want GW to provide a ruleset I enjoy for 40k, so I can have fun pushing my little plastic spacemen around, but in the meantime I've got plastic titans and army men I can play with.

Playing the unit at a time system is a nightmare, especially if you are playing with large armies. I really hope they don’t change the turn system 40K currently has

[Noserenda]

Ive never really understood the hate for turn by turn systems, gives me time to scheme and chat with my opponent, its not like you disappear into a darkened void or something. Ive played plenty of alternating activation games too and they are fine, just different. Like, Titanicus is the best game GW makes because it has amazing verisimilitude and solid systems, not its turn sequence. 

[Valkyrion]

I really like the AoD 2.0 system which gives you one (ish) thing to consider during each opponents phase. Instead of 'oh, he's moved his super killy unit of doom there' it's now 'oh, he's moved his super killy unit of doom there, should I move my guys away? But if I do then I can't move away from the killy super unit of despair he's going to move next.'

 

Is 20 tactical marines on an objective worth shooting at with my 5 combi bolter terminators? 40k would say yes, 30k says 'hmmm, probably not.' 

 

It's definitely not AA but there's enough to keep you engaged without simply rolling defence dice. 

[Mandragola]

51 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

Playing the unit at a time system is a nightmare, especially if you are playing with large armies. I really hope they don’t change the turn system 40K currently has

 

I've now read the turn bit and they don't seem to be getting rid of IGOUGO, so you can be happy. But you activate a unit and do all of its stuff for the turn rather than having a movement phase, shooting phase and so on. 

 

6 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Ive never really understood the hate for turn by turn systems, gives me time to scheme and chat with my opponent, its not like you disappear into a darkened void or something. Ive played plenty of alternating activation games too and they are fine, just different. Like, Titanicus is the best game GW makes because it has amazing verisimilitude and solid systems, not its turn sequence. 

For me (and this is totally an issue of personal preference) the issue with IGOUGO is that so much happens on one player's turn. Units can do a lot and every unit does something on a turn. This means that between your turn and your opponent's, you can and often do find a huge amount of your army is gone without you having done anything. I also find it's not very immersive to have (for example) an enemy unit fly across the battlefield in a transport (which shoots), disembark, shoot, charge my stuff, kill it and then consolidate without any of my guys doing anything. In reality I think they'd have shot the people getting out of the transport.

 

I think my favourite turn sequence is for bolt action. Each player puts a number of dice into a bag equal to the number of units they have. You draw a random dice and if it's yours, you get to activate a unit, doing its whole turn. It creates an unpredictable alternating activation system. BA also has reactions (taking cover or firing back) which you can only do if your unit hasn't yet activated, which means there are penalties to going first. It plays really nicely, in my opinion... but as I said different people are entitled to their own views.

 

AT's activation system works well in 1v1 games but I find it clunky for multiplayer. Alternating activations with each unit activating 3-4 times in a turn is a lot. I've considered a "titanic action" game where we put order dice for loyalist and traitor into a bag, as a participation game. Might be fun.