Upsizing the plastic Titans?

[Valkyrion]

Is the only difference between making Titanicus scale Titans and 40k titans in plastic the size of the moulds needed, or is it more complicated than that? 

[Joe]

Stuff to keep in mind;

 

• Everything that was designed in CAD for Adeptus Titanicus / Aeronautica Imperialis was designed at 28mm, then scaled down (per chatter from the team at various events in the past).
• The moulds you'd need to produce any of them in plastic would be huge; keeping in mind that the Baneblade moulds cost the studio upwards of £500,000 alone.
• The way stuff is parted out on sprues for AT/AI wouldn't work when you get to 28mm sprues for titans; they'd have to be cut completely differently.

 

[Redcomet]

16 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

Is the only difference between making Titanicus scale Titans and 40k titans in plastic the size of the moulds needed, or is it more complicated than that? 

Some of the parts would need to be cut differently in order to be moulded for 28mm. But the where sculpted for 40k and then scaled down. 
 

The kits would end up being very expensive. But it is doable. Bandai make Gundam kits that are Titan sized and contain 20-30 plastic sprues 

[Stitch5000]

The scale of the small details on the AT models is WAY out for the scale of 28mm models. 

It isn't just a matter of changing the size. 

[Xenith]

One of the constraints is the maximum length of a single plastic component. As GW are using the same size frames for most things now, the A4-sized frame on the warlord titan would remain, then the parts would need to be recut up and spread over many more frames.

 

From 8mm -> 28/32mm, you'd need to increase the size by 4x. The alternative would be to get a moulding machine that can deal with frames that are 4x as wide and 4x as tall, which is actually something like 1600% the original size of the sprue area, and these things usually follow an exponential cost: size relation, so the cost would be astronomical. 

[Redcomet]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

One of the constraints is the maximum length of a single plastic component. As GW are using the same size frames for most things now, the A4-sized frame on the warlord titan would remain, then the parts would need to be recut up and spread over many more frames.

 

From 8mm -> 28/32mm, you'd need to increase the size by 4x. The alternative would be to get a moulding machine that can deal with frames that are 4x as wide and 4x as tall, which is actually something like 1600% the original size of the sprue area, and these things usually follow an exponential cost: size relation, so the cost would be astronomical. 

You don’t just upscale the parts. The way the models will be engineered would be completely different and consist of a lot more parts.

[Trokair]

While we do not have plastic Titans at 40k scale we do have Knights at both 40k scale and AT scale.

 

Have a look at the relevant sprues (3.5 A4 sized for the 40k version, One ½ A4 + One ¼ A4 for the AT, and that’s for three Knights) and you can see how many more parts you need for the same components. Chainsword and arm is One at AT and Eight at 40k Scale, the fist is even more at 14 for the large one and 1 for the equivalent AT one.  

 

Can it be done, probably, but it be a 12 + sprue monster I’d guess.

[WARMASTER_]

Surprisingly the CAD designs wouldn’t actually need that much work to convert to full size, a GW sculptor mentioned a similar situation of a design in a Vox Cast and said it was about 10% more work, They’ve also already got the Warlord and Nemesis at full size as they’re recent.

 

As others have said it’ll be the Sprues and the mould cost but it’s feasible, not sure if profitable 

[Valkyrion]

Okay, so a knight at AT level is a quarter sprue each, and at 40k level 3 sprues (half a sprue is the special character one), that gives us a 12:1 ratio of AT to 40k in terms of plastic, yes?

 

So a warhound at AT level is 1.5 sprues (3 sprues builds 2), multiplied by 12 gives us 18 sprues. 

 

That's a lot, isn't it. 

 

How could it ever be logistically possible to make a plastic warhound? What would need to happen in terms of technology and so on?

[Special Officer Doofy]

8 hours ago, Joe said:

• The moulds you'd need to produce any of them in plastic would be huge; keeping in mind that the Baneblade moulds cost the studio upwards of £500,000 alone.

 

Where is that number from?

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

13 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Okay, so a knight at AT level is a quarter sprue each, and at 40k level 3 sprues (half a sprue is the special character one), that gives us a 12:1 ratio of AT to 40k in terms of plastic, yes?

 

So a warhound at AT level is 1.5 sprues (3 sprues builds 2), multiplied by 12 gives us 18 sprues. 

 

That's a lot, isn't it. 

 

How could it ever be logistically possible to make a plastic warhound? What would need to happen in terms of technology and so on?

 

Technology is not the problem. We have 1:32 Lancasters and B-17s, each with 1 meter wingspan, we've got 1:200 battleships and so on.  Warhound should be doable, maybe Reaver and Wolrlord would need some quirk to stabilize them concerning the seize of weapons and the overall height (Maybe some metal weights in the legs and rods for the rest would be enough). The problem are sales, i.e. how many people are out there, who WANT a plastic titan and are willing to pay a GW price for it.

[Stitch5000]

14 minutes ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

 

The problem are sales, i.e. how many people are out there, who WANT a plastic titan and are willing to pay a GW price for it.

Technology isn;t the problem, however the time and resource it takes to manufacture such a thing would compound the issue. It;d either need a dedicated manufacturing facility or it would displace other, probably more frequently sold items. 

the knock on effect would be that it would have to be almost as expensive as the resin versions just to make up for its own impact on production. 

Let's be honest, do 28mm scale titans actually make the game BETTER at all? In my opinion, no. Sure, they are a spectacle to behold, but that's a different thing. 

 

[Redcomet]

28mm titans are almost purely a modeling project. And the pleasure of having one.

 

Not to be a broken record, but if you look at Bandai, their largest kits have 30 ish sprues in them. And since it is a major logistical undertaking to manufacture, they only do it once a year or so. 

[Noserenda]

Buying titans is rarely for the game though, they've never been particularly good in it after all, it's about the modelling and having the biggest, coolest toys.

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

28 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

28mm titans are almost purely a modeling project. And the pleasure of having one.

 

Not to be a broken record, but if you look at Bandai, their largest kits have 30 ish sprues in them. And since it is a major logistical undertaking to manufacture, they only do it once a year or so. 

 

Bandai is a bit of a special case.

- most Bandai kits are produced in short series and are not restocked regularly (same for Kotobukiya btw)

- multi-colour sprues complicate the molding process

- due to their no-glue & minimum-clean up philosophy requirements for parts' fit and, molding quality and plastic quality are significantly higher than in regular plastic models

[Redcomet]

17 minutes ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

 

Bandai is a bit of a special case.

- most Bandai kits are produced in short series and are not restocked regularly (same for Kotobukiya btw)

- multi-colour sprues complicate the molding process

- due to their no-glue & minimum-clean up philosophy requirements for parts' fit and, molding quality and plastic quality are significantly higher than in regular plastic models

I know. The only company matching the fit of their kits are modern Tamiya aircraft kits. I built the 1/48 F-35 and the engineering was mind blowing.

 

I think GW could do the same with say small titans, Warhound sized, and Thunderhawk sized kits. Run a preorder made to order once a year and deliver in 2-3 months.