Deepcut Studio - Bad customer service

[Firedrake Cordova]

5 hours ago, Kastor Krieg said:

The lack of quick response and offers of partial refunds are a well known stalling tactic, aimed at allowing the 14 day return/refund window pass unnoticed. 

Doesn't the 14 day window relate to cancellations arising from the consumer changing their mind, not when an item is faulty? 

[Remain_Indoors]

17 hours ago, tychobi said:

I might provide a little perspective on this.

 

You used PayPal to claw back your payment during what seems like a normal fair negotiation regarding your game mat which while unsatisfactory is in working order.  Instead of responding to the offer of recompense you used PayPal to claw back your entire payment.  So now you have a free game mat. 

 

This is a small producer with limited resources who delivered a product in good faith. Now an upset customer has taken back payment and is continuing to make demands after taking the nuclear option. I figure the options were weighed and acceptance  of the expensive lesson to not do any more business with you was the easiest choice.  

 

It really sucks you got a miscolored game mat. it is regrettable that you are not able to enjoy it the way you expected to. The evidence presented seems clear that effort was made on both sides to rectify the situation until the negotiation was ended.  

 

While their customer service was obviously unsatisfactory the evidence provided would not deter me from doing business with Deepcut.

 

A bizarre perspective.

They ordered an item. The wrong item was supplied. As such they are well within their right to request a full refund or replacement.

They did not "claw back" their payment, the ability to dispute payment on Paypal is done exactly to protect consumers from just such situations, where a seller refuses to address issues with what they have been paid for. This is also not a "negotiation".

Asking for a replacement or refund is not a "nuclear option", its the bare minimum of consume rights./.

[Kastor Krieg]

16 hours ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

Doesn't the 14 day window relate to cancellations arising from the consumer changing their mind, not when an item is faulty? 

Yes, but inherent hidden physical fault has to be proven (then it's a 1 year to return / refund). It's for the cases of a mis-produced components or features which cause the item to lose advertised function after some time of normal use. Here, it'd be the case if the paint used was wrong and the mat went partially or fully red after 3 months of use, for example.

This fault wasn't hidden, it was in plain sight, so the vendor could argue the customer accepted the item as is, if the 14 days passed. Hence, the stalling shenanigans.

15 hours ago, Remain_Indoors said:

 

A bizarre perspective.

They ordered an item. The wrong item was supplied. As such they are well within their right to request a full refund or replacement.

They did not "claw back" their payment, the ability to dispute payment on Paypal is done exactly to protect consumers from just such situations, where a seller refuses to address issues with what they have been paid for. This is also not a "negotiation".

Asking for a replacement or refund is not a "nuclear option", its the bare minimum of consume rights./.

Yeah, I have absolutely no clue where this anticonsumer stance from consumers themselves is coming from.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Tyriks
removed ot

[Craig]

3 hours ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Yeah, I have absolutely no clue where this anticonsumer stance from consumers themselves is coming from.

 I don't see this as anticonsumerism. Part of customer service is resolving issues that occur to the satisfaction of the customer and the retailer. I have worked in customer service and have seen this happen a lot. Asking the customer if they would like to keep the product for a partial refund is a fair question to ask. They do not have to send the product back and wait for a replacement and the retailer does not incur costs for shipping and retaining a product they will may not be able to sell. The mat still performs the function it was intended for to a large degree, protecting your table whilst gaming and giving you at least one thematic scene to play in (I would use the second side as a martian waste rather than a desert waste but that's just me). 

Now we only have the account of the op who says in a later post that he did not ask the retailer for a full refund in his initial interaction so it is fair to assume that an initial offer of a partial refund was made but a full refund or exchange was not denied to him either. The op seems to have assumed the retailer has refused him and has reacted the way he has. 

Because I would assume the retailer in this case is one guy selling battle mats rather than a multi million dollar corporation I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt rather than tar him as someone not to do business with. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Tyriks
removed OT line from quote

[Remain_Indoors]

2 hours ago, Craig said:

I don't see this as anticonsumerism. Part of customer service is resolving issues that occur to the satisfaction of the customer and the retailer. I have worked in customer service and have seen this happen a lot. Asking the customer if they would like to keep the product for a partial refund is a fair question to ask. They do not have to send the product back and wait for a replacement and the retailer does not incur costs for shipping and retaining a product they will may not be able to sell. The mat still performs the function it was intended for to a large degree, protecting your table whilst gaming and giving you at least one thematic scene to play in (I would use the second side as a martian waste rather than a desert waste but that's just me). 

Now we only have the account of the op who says in a later post that he did not ask the retailer for a full refund in his initial interaction so it is fair to assume that an initial offer of a partial refund was made but a full refund or exchange was not denied to him either. The op seems to have assumed the retailer has refused him and has reacted the way he has. 

Because I would assume the retailer in this case is one guy selling battle mats rather than a multi million dollar corporation I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt rather than tar him as someone not to do business with. 

 

Its not the company being anti-consumer, it was the post i quoted. Accusing the cosumer of malicious intent for wanting the product they actually paid for. Its irrelevant that the item can be used for a similar purpose, it did not arrive as advertised. If you buy a Ferrari and a Robin Reliant is delivered, the seller can't refuse a refund because both can be used to drive to the shops.

The retailer has a responsibility to deal with return and refund requests in a prompt manner. They apparently havent in this case, so the OP is well within their Consumer Rights to escalate the claim to Paypal. And i dont blame them for venting here about it, given the product in question.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Tyriks
removed ot line from quote

[potatocrusader]

4 hours ago, Craig said:

 I don't see this as anticonsumerism. Part of customer service is resolving issues that occur to the satisfaction of the customer and the retailer. I have worked in customer service and have seen this happen a lot. Asking the customer if they would like to keep the product for a partial refund is a fair question to ask. They do not have to send the product back and wait for a replacement and the retailer does not incur costs for shipping and retaining a product they will may not be able to sell. The mat still performs the function it was intended for to a large degree, protecting your table whilst gaming and giving you at least one thematic scene to play in (I would use the second side as a martian waste rather than a desert waste but that's just me). 

Now we only have the account of the op who says in a later post that he did not ask the retailer for a full refund in his initial interaction so it is fair to assume that an initial offer of a partial refund was made but a full refund or exchange was not denied to him either. The op seems to have assumed the retailer has refused him and has reacted the way he has. 

Because I would assume the retailer in this case is one guy selling battle mats rather than a multi million dollar corporation I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt rather than tar him as someone not to do business with. 

Does not really matter how you see it, the reality is it's very anti consumer to not offer a replacement or refund for a product that was shipped fully knowing it was not what was advertised or ordered from the start. I assume you feel personally attacked and feel the need to defend the company purely because you worked in customer support, that's fine, each person is different and I cannot account for what hardships you faced. 

Asking the customer after shipping an item that is clearly not what was ordered to just accept some partial refund for a very expensive item is not fair at all. Also I find it kind of wrong you can just assume what I purchased the item for, I purchased a specific side for a specifically painted terrain.

And again, claiming you work in customer support but can't even appreciate my approach to the problem was very passive and I did mention I specifically worded my first mail (can provide proof of course) the way I did as I did not want to sound like an angry customer making demands right off the bat because I do not see any reason to create stress and pressure where a situation has a simple solution. I had already mentioned had the mat not being in the state it was in (completely different color) I would not even be emailing them in the first place. I treated the seller as a human being capable of understanding and empathy just as I would like to be treated, the seller instead treated me as just a wallet that can type words and purchase products.

I see people go on about being a small business run by very low number of people, usually these family sized businesses are more empathic and understanding than a faceless corporation and they wouldn't pull such a thing off. Again I will have to repeat myself on this one, but being small they clearly handled the printing personally and saw both during printing and packaging they were sending an item of a color that both doesn't resemble the print.jpeg and what I had ordered.

Would like to update the situation, no reply yet from Deepcut on paypal.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Tyriks
removed personal attack

[Tyriks]

=][=    This thread is being reopened.  Constructive discussion is allowed and encouraged.  Please refrain from insulting one another over differing views.    =][=

[potatocrusader]

An update in order of events unfolding:

1. Seller responded slowly on paypal finally accepting dispute and asking for the mat to be sent back which is fair however being a EU business doing business in the EU they are obligated to pay return shipping when delivering a faulty item, an item that is not as described and soo forth (EU consumer law - can be checked). 
Paypal works like this (my first time ever having to use a dispute in 15 years of using it) - Open Ticket and submit evidence including photos > Both seller and buyer can talk while paypal just watches > escalate to dispute or else case gets dismissed and is recommended if seller is not responding which he hadn't > paypal talks to seller and tries to resolve waiting for seller response > seller requests item back for refund (139.9 Euro) > paypal awaits my response which can only be tracking number and a photo of shipping receipt, I cannot write anything there to mention that seller has to pay shipping back.

 

Side note:
- Seller didn't even include full return details and I couldn't even write that as my response on my paypal, I had to google and search their website for the full address and required details as I didn't want to waste time waiting for seller response via email. Mind you this company has been operating for a long time, they know what they need to give for returns. No company would accept shipping with just the address the seller provided and they stated it will probably not get delivered because of the incomplete details if I really wanted to send it like that. 

- Cheapest shipping option costs 35 Euro via normal post, courier services are above 100 Euro for individual customers. So I am not keen on parting with more of my money if I am not at fault, I do not like others to pay for my mistakes just as much as I would not like to pay for other's mistakes.

2. I contact Deepcut via email letting them know they have to pay for shipping in accordance with the consumer law. Mind you the seller should have automatically respected the law and offer a shipping label and I shouldn't need to do any of this unless I just wanted to return the product because I did not need/want it anymore with it being exactly what I purchased. At the same time I had also opened a chat with paypal letting know of the issue and their response is they cannot ask the seller to pay for shipping as it is not in their policy. So after some back and forth paypal offered to pay for the shipping themselves which I accepted because I wanted to be done with this issue that has being going on for almost a month since writing this. 

3. I send another email to Deepcut informing them to ignore my last mail, paypal paid for them and because I am still within the consumer law return period (14 days, no questions asked for return) I will be sending back my whole purchase for a full refund as I really didn't want to do anymore business with them. I didn't mention this in my original post as it was slightly irrelevant, my full order was 201 Euros, for 1 double sided 44 by 60 mat and 2x 22 by 30 inches mats. Both of these were just slightly darker than on the website which I was completely fine with. I did not get any response, complete silence.

4. The original box the mats came in would not be accepted as the box was very long, since I keep boxes since I do ship stuff out as well I had a good box for them and carefully packed the mats and used foam sticks and bubble wrap to make sure the mats arrived intact. Went to the post office and sent the package.

 

5. Checked paypal status and parcel tracking. Parcel had been collected 3 days ago but seller didn't respond on paypal and let the ticket auto resolve (buyer has to respond and there is a limited time window, if not response is given paypal auto-refunds the requested amount (139.99 Euro). I email the seller notifying them that they had received my package, I shipped the whole order back as specified in my last email and I will be waiting for the rest of my refund. I got a response seller insisting to talk to paypal since I decided to use them and they have no control over the situation. I again opened chat with paypal letting them know of the situation, they stated the original issue was resolved in my favor and the case cannot be re-opened under any circumstances and I have to talk to the seller and have him pay the rest of the refund as it is out of their control.

 

I emailed the seller again with a print screen of my chat with paypal, again stating that I had shipped the entire order back and I will await the rest of my refund as I am within my consumer rights. 

Currently awaiting a response from the seller, I do not expect a favorable response as this wasn't even a debate and the refund should have been given as soon as the package was opened and contents checked. It seems I that I might have to waste more energy and time to open a ticket with the consumer protection agency in Lithuania.

[Kastor Krieg]

Sorry you have to go through this to simply get your rightful resolution to a bad actor's knowing actions.

[potatocrusader]

New update:

It has been 3 days since i've requested the rest of my money refunded which has been met with silence. I had posted my problem on another forum as well and the seller had the audacity to reply and advertise their product.

For transparency's sake I have added screenshots of some of my emails with Deepcut, I have removed my name and address as it is a private mail from them but left in the seller's name since the name is that of the owner which is known because it is a business and the email is the Deepcut Studio official customer support email.

I am willing to provide any necessary print screens of my dealings with Deepcut Studio as to not appear that I am omitting anything in my benefit. 

[Lord_Ikka]

At this point, if you want to continue, you will most likely have to use whatever your country's consumer protection agency/civil agency to recover the remaining funds (62-ish Euros, if I'm reading right). The initial PayPal issue is resolved (wrong color item, for 139 Euros?), as PayPal stated, so as far as returning the remaining products and getting the refund for those items PayPal will not be involved- which Deepcut studios should definitely be aware of. 

 

Sorry you had to deal with this, looks to be very troubling/annoying and Deepcut is clearly in the wrong here.

[potatocrusader]

10 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

At this point, if you want to continue, you will most likely have to use whatever your country's consumer protection agency/civil agency to recover the remaining funds (62-ish Euros, if I'm reading right). The initial PayPal issue is resolved (wrong color item, for 139 Euros?), as PayPal stated, so as far as returning the remaining products and getting the refund for those items PayPal will not be involved- which Deepcut studios should definitely be aware of. 

 

Sorry you had to deal with this, looks to be very troubling/annoying and Deepcut is clearly in the wrong here.

 Thanks, I have already filled out the form but have to get it printed and signed and then scanned and sent... a very annoying hassle and extra money spent. A friend saw how much stress this whole ordeal has caused me and how it affected my condition. He suggested I sue but I won't even bother as it is just a waste of time and I want to get my money back and move on. 

I hope that making this public will help some. And even if they chose to do business with Deepcut I hope because of me going public they will less keen on doing the same to them and they can enjoy their ordered mat and play with their cool minis with friends and family and relax.

[potatocrusader]

An unrelated update, but wanted to thank everybody that encouraged me to get gamemat.eu mats. They arrived and they are very high quality and what surprised me more was that they were the exact same color like on the website, no color variation at all! 

Can't wait for 10th to drop so I can break them in ! :D

[potatocrusader]

Final update:

 

 The seller has sent the rest of the refund via Paypal. The whole ordeal has left a bitter taste in my mouth and wasted my time. I hope that Deepcut has learned from this experience and will do a better job at quality control at the very least contact the seller letting them know that something went wrong during the print process and send a picture of the mat and ask if the customer would be okay with it plus a small refund 10-25%. 

I am sure some would accept this and be very happy for being contacted before hand and would recommend the shop. I would not accept the offer but would 100% recommend a shop that is transparent and tries to do the customer right. After all, both the seller and customer are human.

[Lord_Ikka]

=][= At the request of the OP, this topic is now closed due to the situation being resolved. =][=